Popular Post mxsch 115 Posted August 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2020 I've discovered this gem not so long ago, because I've was ignoring all other Indy scores besides Raiders, this was my biggest mistake in OST experience. First listened to Concord, and it was ok, i did it a few times. But then I've decided to build mine ultimate versions of three Indy scores, and when I've got almost all cues except few with proper inserts and stuff, damn. This score is just as insane and over the top as the movie itself. I'm a very big fan of action music, so this is like God's gift to me. Or JW to be certain. I really like Last Crusade for it's clunky sound and very heart touching material, plus it is most thematically-heavy of all four. Raiders for mickey-mousing every action and haunting Ark theme, Desert Chase is exceptional. And KotCS is meh. Only some cues impressed me, center cue is of course The Jungle Chase, which amazingly incorporates every movie theme except Skull itself. And that "Ugh, Vines" cue… It is like ROTS sequel in terms of lacking enough thematical aprroach. But Temple is really like another dimension. Even only for the title track. Only lackluster aspect for me is the lack of center action piece, but i can understand it, because more than a half of the whole score is almost unending action blaze. Also return of the two Basket Chase motifs is cool too. Bayesian, Loert and phbart 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingeMoisi 4 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Like you, I adore (JW) action music. His style is so detailed, rich and seamless, jumping from one theme to another, and the evolution and clever use of theme. For instance, the Slave Children theme that goes from dark at the beginning of the movie at the village, to heroic at the end at the bridge. Impressive and beautiful. JW is so good at this, that I sometimes recognize differently adjusted themes years after listening to the OST or watching the movie. TOD is one of those OST that solidified my love and appreciation for JW music. He didn't have to write a motif for the water escape, or the cart chase, or all the catchy action cues, and yet he did, and it makes the movie better for it. All of this music work make this movie unforgettable. I'd say the TOD OST has the strongest identity of the 3 Indiana Jones movies, maybe because it's the most action-packed, in your face but that's exactly why I love it. It's a ride of an OST. I'm not necessarily saying it's my favorite, as I adore Last Crusade too, which has a very different musical identity. As weird as it sounds, Last Crusade gives me European vibes, because of the composition, and the religious/holy motifs mostly at the end of the movie. It definitely has more heart and is very different. I wish we had genius music like this for today's movies, JW or not (when applicable of course, ie. action movies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 This will give you some context, hopefully: https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2019/05/24/indiana-jones-temple-of-doom-35-anniversary/ Erik Woods and Amer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Basically anyone over 50 here knows how great a score it is. It is a 5 star score. It also has the best endtitles to all the films. Beautiful and emotional and Parade of the Slave Children is a masterpiece Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,321 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 I've always been fascinated for JW's use of Short Round's Theme for the trek music to Pankot Palace. I like to think it's foreshadowing Short Round saving Indy and Willie. Without him, they probably never get out of the Temple. Did JW purposely do that? I like to think so. It also just works extremely well as 'trek' music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post phbart 607 Posted August 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2020 I'll say the same thing I did in another thread regarding ToD. The thing about ToD is that JW composed every single note of it with perfection, whether we're talking about action sequences, the underscore, the creepy stuff from the underground temple scenes. The orchestrations are so rich, so detailed. And it's incredible how he used the the slave children's theme with such flexibilty. At first to illustrate the dramatic situation with the villagers when Indy arrives there (the moment we're actually introduced to the theme). Then it's used even more dramatically during the forced labor sequences. Then it completely changes to an heroic theme when Short Round escapes, and even more heroic when Indy free the slaves. And how it's subtly used to illustrate a sort of sense of justice (good triumphing over evil) during the broken bridge when Indy yells "you betrayed Shiva" to Mola Ram. Even subtle uses of the theme, like on "Short Round's Theme", when the village leader is praying as Indy is heading to the temple, how it's nicely used to illustrate a sense of hope and almost childish optimism. And when Indy finally returns the stone to the leader and he goes "now you can see the magic of the rock...", the theme also subtly illustrates a sense of goodness, kindness (and, why not, something like "See, I told you"). I might be wrong (as almost always), but I can't think of a particular theme where JW used with such variety in a film like he did with the slave children's theme. Brundlefly, Smaug The Iron, Ricard and 7 others 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,321 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 @phbart Fantastic write up. phbart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 The OST is great! blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,321 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: The OST is great! ToD is best experienced with a complete score. Even something Thor should consider! The OST does not do it justice. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Probably does a better job than TLC at finding the actual highest highlights to shove into those insanely restrictive 40 minutes but many of them are very much hurt by being yanked out of the intended context with their jumpscare starts with no buildup and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 At least it's 40 minutes of pure fun! Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 The complete score's 110 minutes of better pure fun! Edmilson, Bellosh and bruce marshall 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 24 minutes ago, Holko said: The complete score's 110 minutes of better pure fun! Mine version is actually around 1.53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,450 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 One minute and fifty three seconds? That's a really short score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 it's only the very best parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 While it's a terrific score in another league to any sort of modern blockbuster soundtrack equivalent, ToD is my least favourite of the three main Indy scores. I thoroughly enjoy the music as heard in the film, but on its own I tend to find a lot of it quite overbearing. Still, it's a bona fide classic nevertheless. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: One minute and fifty three seconds? That's a really short score. Ofc one hour and fifty-three minutes Naïve Old Fart and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,450 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Quintus said: While it's a terrific score in another league to any sort of modern blockbuster soundtrack equivalent, ToD is my least favourite of the three main Indy scores. I thoroughly enjoy the music as heard in the film, but on its own I tend to find a lot of it quite overbearing. Still, it's a bona fide classic nevertheless. It's the 1941 of Indiana Jones scores...but like 1941, it's an awful lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 I happened to give it another listen two weekends ago and sometimes I feel like I like it better than Raiders. I know that's probably not objectively true, but man. It's completely fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Hey, you liking it more than something else can be objectively true any time. It being better than the others is what some people may contest. (not me, its my favourite of the Indy scores and movies, I'm past caring to conform to conventionally accepted rankings) phbart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,275 Posted August 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2020 It needs filling out with more suspenseful unreleased material, to balance the relentless action on the Concord; it's an unbalanced listening experience. Mike can't tackle this score fast enough and condemn that mess of a release to the trash. Fingers crossed he's been working on the trilogy for the Raiders 40th next year, given the (relative) lack of SS/JW expansions since 2018. phbart, Madmartigan JC, Edmilson and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,450 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 hour ago, SilverTrumpet said: I know that's probably not objectively true... 1 hour ago, Holko said: Hey, you liking it more than something else can be objectively true any time. But...objectivity is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 607 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 The Concord release is flawed, technically speaking. VERY flawed! Wrong pitch on some of the unreleased tracks and excessive reverb on all of the unreleased tracks. Unbalance between the apparently three sources used, the OST master plus two different sources for the unreleased stuff (I assume it's two sources because of the obvious shift in quality during "Short Round Helps" and "Broken Bridge/British Relief"). The only thing I did altered was the pitch of the unreleased tracks, where needed. That was unbearable to me. That's why I haven't touched my CD for over a decade or so. But I actually don't mind the relentless action sequencing. Of course, they should have included more of the suspensefull stuff on CD5 (there was more than enough room for it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,275 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 7 hours ago, phbart said: The only thing I did altered was the pitch of the unreleased tracks, where needed. That was unbearable to me. That's why I haven't touched my CD for over a decade or so. Isn't that basically impossible to fix because the tapes run at inconsistent speeds throughout? Meaning, different sections of tracks are running at different speeds and the pitch is inconsistent (so you can't provide a blanket fix to the whole track and resolve the pitch). How the hell that even happened with digital recordings boggles the mind. If the tapes were improperly handled during transfer, it'd make more sense (but the spectograms indicate the source was digital). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Bozereau happened. phbart and Martinland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,321 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Back in 2014 I saw John Williams at the BSO for his film night, and I eagerly flipped through the program book to get to the playlist, and there was NO Temple of Doom cues. I figured he might have added something for the 30th anniversary of that movie/score. I wonder where Temple of Doom (and a lot of our forum favorites) rank with Mr. Williams himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 He's probably just forgotten about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 607 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 18 hours ago, crumbs said: Isn't that basically impossible to fix because the tapes run at inconsistent speeds throughout? Meaning, different sections of tracks are running at different speeds and the pitch is inconsistent (so you can't provide a blanket fix to the whole track and resolve the pitch). Actually you can alter portions of the track's pitch. I used Cool Edit Pro (now called Adobe Audition). In the case of "Short Round Helps" (where the first 1:15 are wrong) and "Broken Bridge/British Release" (where the British Relief portion is wrong), this is what I did. The results are remarkably seamless. Short Round Helps British Relief For all other tracks with wrong pitch (from CD2 Saving Willie, Water!, The Sword Trick, and from CD5, Indy and the Villagers and Return to the Village/Raiders March) I just applied the change for the entire track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 On 8/7/2020 at 6:32 AM, SilverTrumpet said: I happened to give it another listen two weekends ago and sometimes I feel like I like it better than Raiders. I know that's probably not objectively true, but man. It's completely fantastic. RAIDERS is my least favorite because I never cared for the main theme. The subsequent scores use less and less of it, all to the better! Martinland, Erik Woods and mxsch 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Bah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 12 hours ago, Bellosh said: Back in 2014 I saw John Williams at the BSO for his film night, and I eagerly flipped through the program book to get to the playlist, and there was NO Temple of Doom cues. I figured he might have added something for the 30th anniversary of that movie/score. I wonder where Temple of Doom (and a lot of our forum favorites) rank with Mr. Williams himself. The film has alot to do with it. It's reputation was never great and has only diminished in light of modern cultural sensitivities. Personally, thought it went way overboard with the " gross out" stuff Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,321 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: The film has alot to do with it. It's reputation was never great and has only diminished in light of modern cultural sensitivities. Personally, thought it went way overboard with the " gross out" stuff Yeah you're very right, and I was always understanding of that. I figured he'd atleast give us the Parade of the Slave Children or Short Round's theme that night, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 It's a realistic depiction of a savage culture. Erik Woods and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 35 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: It's a realistic depiction of a savage culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Erik Woods 553 Posted August 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 8, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 4:57 PM, Jurassic Shark said: It's a realistic depiction of a savage culture. The thing about Temple of Doom is that some can't see past the fact that the film was never supposed to be about representing Indian culture as a whole. The Thuggees are essentially a terrorist cell using Hinduism as a front to condone what they are doing. They are NO different than radicalized Islamic terrorists, for instance, who blow up buildings in the name of God. As for the dinner... of course it was gross. These aren't normal people and the meal was never indented to represent Indian cuisine as well. So this notion about racism, sexism and whatnot in Temple of Doom is utter BS. And Spielberg speaking ill of the fllm doesn't help the films reputation either. It's a superb piece of entertainment that did what it was supposed to do and did it brilliantly! Gurkensalat, Brando, Darth Porkins and 5 others 3 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Chill, Erik!😊 I don't I agree with ALL the criticisms. The critics didn't focus on the Thugee /Indian culture depiction so much as The " white savior" aspect; which is valid. The " grossness" extended beyond the dinner scene. Remember the bugs? The beating heart? Yuk! 😆 Overall it's an entertaining adventure but it's not in the same class as the other two films - anyway you look at it! Btw I loved it when I first saw it in 70mm Later, watching it for a second time, I thought to myself " what were you thinking?!" 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Remember the bugs, are you serious? Remember the spiders? Remember the snakes? Remember the rats? Remember one guy's face melting off, another's being sucked onto his skull, and another's head exploding? Wow, a beating heart, so gross. Does Indy being white have anything to do with a depressed starving oppressed rural village asking a healthy educated person for help? bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Holko said: Does Indy being white have anything to do with a depressed starving oppressed rural village asking a healthy educated person for help? 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Erik Woods said: The thing about Temple of Doom is that some can't see past the fact that the film was never supposed to be about representing Indian culture as a whole. The Thuggees are essentially a terrorist cell using Hinduism as a front to condone what they are doing. They are NO different that radicalized Islamic terrorists, for instance, who blow up buildings in the name of God. As for the dinner... of course it was gross. These aren't normal people and the meal was never indented to represent Indian cuisine as well. So this BS about racism, sexism and whatnot in Temple of Doom is utter BS. And Spielberg speaking ill of the fllm doesn't help the films reputation either. It's a superb piece of entertainment that did what it was supposed to do and did it brilliantly! Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Nuff said😵 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 6 hours ago, bruce marshall said: Btw I loved it when I first saw it in 70mm Later, watching it for a second time, I thought to myself " what were you thinking?!" 😎 So bugs are okay as long as they're in ultra high definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said: So bugs are okay as long as they're in ultra high definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 1:39 PM, Jurassic Shark said: Bah! It sounds too much like SW Ranking the Films TLC ROLA KOCS TOD Ranking the scores TLC TOD ROLA KOCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,457 Posted August 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2020 I love to relax naked, sipping a nice aged scotch and listening to "The Temple of Doom" track. Bellosh, Martinland and SingeMoisi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,043 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/7/2020 at 10:16 PM, crumbs said: How the hell that even happened with digital recordings boggles the mind. Well, I would guess the score was recorded to analog tape AND digital, but 1984 era digital was probably not considered good enough when making the Concord box in 2008, so they figured they'd transfer the analog tapes in high res and use that. They just didn't use the machine properly when they did. Hopefully the tapes were re-vaulted adequately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pando 141 Posted August 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/6/2020 at 8:22 PM, phbart said: And how it's subtly used to illustrate a sort of sense of justice (good triumphing over evil) during the broken bridge when Indy yells "you betrayed Shiva" to Mola Ram. Holko, Brando and phbart 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,457 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay said: Well, I would guess the score was recorded to analog tape AND digital, but 1984 era digital was probably not considered good enough when making the Concord box in 2008, so they figured they'd transfer the analog tapes in high res and use that. They just didn't use the machine properly when they did. Hopefully the tapes were re-vaulted adequately... Listen, sorry read, I am someone who have a relative (and not perfect) pitch and the pitch "problems" about the Concord boxset are overstated. Okay, Mike Matessimo would have done it better, but, still it's not the failure like many want us to think. Tuning the music on the true true true right pitch (even if it's always relative, because no software can do it automatically) is a very modern concern thing... born with the digital era. Like I said before, if it's less than a 1/4 tone... bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 " Mike Mattesino Would Have Done It BETTER!" I'm having the t-shirts printed up. Should sell alot of them here and FSM. On 8/7/2020 at 10:07 PM, Jurassic Shark said: Bozereau happened. Wah....wah...wah.... Not complete....wrong pitch.....Needs Mattessin to redo😰 Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 It may well be the best of the 4 Indy scores. Its easily superior to LC and KotCS. Its Raiders that is it equal or superior.. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 6 hours ago, bruce marshall said: It sounds too much like SW Ranking the Films TLC ROLA KOCS TOD Ranking the scores TLC TOD ROLA KOCS Skull better than Temple? Wtf, man? One of the most violent Spielberg movies and lazy piece of shit with PG-13 And Raiders March sounding like SW is bullshit too. If you do comparison like this, Superman sounds like SW too and you can go on Why not to say that they sound the same because they use orchestra? Wow! Pando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now