Opinion on Jonn Powell's work for Solo

[mxsch 115]

I'm think what he done here is even better than Sequels.

First of all, Powell for sure is the most talented from all Remote Control Studio guys and I'm glad that he left, because even Zimmer is not a match for him, honestly.

His new themes are amazing, perfomance is over the top in a good way in some places, like Into the Maw, Williams themes and motifs are perfectly integrated, plus new two themes by Maestro himself are outstanding as always.

And this is by far most action-packed SW score.

And Shawn Murphy have got very unique, distinct sound for it.

What else do you need?

 

And I can really say that movie really had grown on me just because of this music. Not kidding.

[Arpy 4,145]

I really appreciate the way in which Powell is able to mesh his style with Williams', it's a nice balance between the two without ever sounding like he's trying too hard to emulate the other. It's just a shame how the score was treated in the film and the sound mix, like so many modern films.

 

I don't know if I would rate it higher than his scores for the Dragon series, however.

[mxsch 115]

2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I really appreciate the way in which Powell is able to mesh his style with Williams', it's a nice balance between the two without ever sounding like he's trying too hard to emulate the other. It's just a shame how the score was treated in the film and the sound mix, like so many modern films.

 

I don't know if I would rate it higher than his scores for the Dragon series, however.

Well, I'm still need to listen to the Dragon series. But, you know, Solo will be better for me just because this is Star Wars. Maybe I'll change my opinion.

And what about emulators, Gordy Haab did a great job on two Battlefronts and clearly have shown his potential on the original material in Fallen Order.

Music buried in the sound mix is just a crime, in my opinion. Especially that great.

[Arpy 4,145]

On an emulation scale, Haab would be at the end closest to Williams. This crude scale doesn't indicate quality, nor all the composers who've written for Star Wars:

 

Williams Emulation Scale

NOT WILLIAMS <- - - - - - - - - - Goransson - - - - - Powell - - *NEUTRAL* - - - - - - - Giacchino-  - - - Kiner- - - - - Haab- - - - - -> WILLIAMS

[mxsch 115]

1 minute ago, Arpy said:

On an emulation scale, Haab would be at the end closest to Williams. This crude scale doesn't indicate quality, nor all the composers who've written for Star Wars:

 

Williams Emulation Scale

NOT WILLIAMS <- - - - - - - - - - Goransson - - - - - Powell - - *NEUTRAL* - - - - - - - Giacchino-  - - - Kiner- - - - - Haab- - - - - -> WILLIAMS

Ha-ha, great thing!

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Too many obnoxious drum loops.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Here's what Tyrian Lannister would say to anybody who dares to compare SOLO to the magnificent HTTYDRAGON:

 

 

[mxsch 115]

Btw, little rant about Zimmer. I mean, he ruined blockbuster music with his super-generic action dun-dun approach, really. Wanna soundtrack? Hire Zimmer! What? Don't have enough money? Go to his studio and hire cheaper sound-alike, like Balfe. That's all, folks.

I'm glad that guys like Goransson are still here. And thank you God, he replaced him on Tenet.

Some years ago I was a fan of Zimmer, but then I've rediscovered Williams and movie music in general.

Now I can have fun with such dumb music only in bursts, but I can fell asleep if it will be too long. B-o-r-i-n-g.

24 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Too many obnoxious drum loops.

Seems like leftovers of work experience with Zimmer.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

7 minutes ago, mxsch said:

Seems like leftovers of work experience with Zimmer.

 

I'm sad to say you're right.

[mxsch 115]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I'm sad to say you're right.

I'm actually like percussion very much and I'm absolutely ok with that. And I haven't noticed it until you pointed out.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

1 minute ago, mxsch said:

I'm actually like percussion very much and I'm absolutely ok with that. And I haven't noticed it until you pointed out.

 

I'm sorry for pointing it out then.  From what I've been reading about the score here on JWFan, I'm not the only one here who's got an issue with it. I also appreciate a good percussion accompanienment, but there's something off-putting about the drum loop approach - perhaps because it's not through-composed and doesn't follow the rest of the music.

[mxsch 115]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I'm sorry for pointing it out then.  From what I've been reading about the score here on JWFan, I'm not the only one here who's got an issue with it. I also appreciate a good percussion accompanienment, but there's something off-putting about the drum loop approach - perhaps because it's not through-composed and doesn't follow the rest of the music.

Can you exactly reference some part of some track?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

1 minute ago, mxsch said:

Can you exactly reference some part of some track?

 

No, it's been too long since I listened to it. I'm sure others with similar reactions could chime in.

[Arpy 4,145]

34 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

 the drum loop approach - perhaps because it's not through-composed and doesn't follow the rest of the music.

'Through-composed'?

The loops are never really the focal point, though - they add some rhythmic texture to some of the tracks which I think gels with them without ever standing out. In hindsight, the drum-loop complaint seems kind of strange. Don't you think Williams would've voiced his displeasure at the use of them?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

JW goes along with it in order to seem cool and up to date.

 

2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

'Through-composed'?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-composed_music#:~:text=In music theory of musical,each stanza of the lyrics.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

52 minutes ago, mxsch said:

Btw, little rant about Zimmer. I mean, he ruined blockbuster music with his super-generic action dun-dun approach, really. Wanna soundtrack? Hire Zimmer! What? Don't have enough money? Go to his studio and hire cheaper sound-alike, like Balfe. That's all, folks.

 

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

Williams' scores are through-composed? 

[mxsch 115]

3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

 

Enjoy

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

4 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Williams' scores are through-composed? 

 

At least he isn't prone to this copy-paste strategy many film composers tend to do to save time.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

11 minutes ago, mxsch said:

Enjoy

Hahaha!

Nice composite#

 

 

 

Though composed is a term that was first applied to the late operas of Wagner. Unlike previous opera the symphonic underscore was continuous and didn't stop for arias.

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[rough cut 1,714]

Just give us the tracks Williams composed and recorded for Solo already!

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

We already have them, we just don't know which tracks were composed by him.

[rough cut 1,714]

There are “demos” that JW recorded with a full orchestra... THOSE, we don’t have...

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

It's probably just midi mock-ups.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

56 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

We already have them, we just don't know which tracks were composed by him.

It's not possible for two composers to create great music😁😝

[gkgyver 1,645]

Quote

because even Zimmer is not a match for him, honestly

 

Zimmer isn't even a match for Hilda Gudnadottir

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

At least she's beautiful.

[mxsch 115]

1 hour ago, gkgyver said:

 

Zimmer isn't even a match for Hilda Gudnadottir

Amen. 

[Loert 2,510]

14 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

perhaps because it's not through-composed and doesn't follow the rest of the music.

 

From what I can hear, John Powell's percussion does follow the rest of the music in a way that the average drum loop wouldn't. Listening closely, one can pick out microvariations in almost every bar of music. Because of this I never get the impression that Powell uses percussion out of laziness - if that were so, then the percussion of e.g. Corellia Chase wouldn't lift the track to the extent that it does. If I'm honest, I think Powell's typical employment of "drum loops" isn't much different from JW's work on The Lost World.

 

Actually, funnily enough, when I listened to Test Drive for the first time I was immediately put off by the percussion and didn't listen to it for another year. It took a while before I came to realise the integral role it played in the track.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

1 hour ago, mxsch said:

Amen. 

 

1 hour ago, mxsch said:

Amen. 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

7 hours ago, Loert said:

Actually, funnily enough, when I listened to Test Drive for the first time I was immediately put off by the percussion and didn't listen to it for another year. It took a while before I came to realise the integral role it played in the track.

 

You should have kept your first reaction.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

25 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

You should have kept your first reaction.

You really have no taste in music- do you?

[publicist 4,643]

7 hours ago, Loert said:

From what I can hear, John Powell's percussion does follow the rest of the music in a way that the average drum loop wouldn't.

 

I think that's not really the point. Especially for old style listeners, it's the relentlessness of the soundscape (in the louder cues), in tandem with mixing choices. Powell is a child of modern blockbuster mores, so this kitchen sink approach just is in his DNA. I don't think there is any case to be made for an overt similarity to any Williams score, let alone Lost World.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

At least she's beautiful.

Well, at least you have good taste in women!

😎

[Arpy 4,145]

'Old style listeners' can get stuffed. If a drum loop annoys you, you're a lost cause!

[publicist 4,643]

There sure is enough choice if you're not enslaved to american blockbuster movies of the last 15 years.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

9 minutes ago, Arpy said:

'Old style listeners' can get stuffed. If a drum loop annoys you, you're a lost cause!

 

They R also annoyed by synths.

Reactionary neo- cons!

 

[gkgyver 1,645]

3 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Well, at least you have good taste in women!

😎

 

Dr. Freud would have a field day with you. Mother complex AND Stockholm syndrome. 

[blondheim 1,157]

I have read enough of this site to know I tread a lonely road here, but I personally think Rogue One is the better score and undeserving of the hate it has received.

 

I like Solo plenty, though, don't get me wrong.

[publicist 4,643]

It's not hate, it's just indifference to a very shallow, pale shadow of what people have come to expect from this series. Solo is not great music, but it's certainly a much more accomplished work compared to Giacchino's kindergarten harmonics.

[blondheim 1,157]

I like the Confrontation on Eadu cue very very much in picture. When the bridge of Jyn's theme lands directly over the final scene with Mads, it is really effective. In fact, including the theme suite, we get that bridge three times and all three times are highlights. Your Father Would Be Proud is head-and-shoulders above Solo, imo. Though I would not fault anyone for choosing Solo. I am a huge Powell fan.

[Datameister 2,037]

I like Powell's work on Solo. I appreciate that there's no particular attempt to ape Williams' style, and I think the actual Williams material is well-integrated in a way that feels natural and cohesive*. The performance, recording, mixing, and mastering for the London stuff are all superb - I prefer this sort of sound over what we hear in the other Disney Star Wars flicks or in "The Adventures of Han". I really, really dig the weirdness of "Chicken in the Pot" and my feelings about Powell's themes range from "meh" to "awesome!"

 

* The exception is "Reminiscence Therapy". I enjoy each individual moment but I find the structure a little sloppy. I'm especially thinking of the transitions into "Attack Position" and "The Asteroid Field."

[blondheim 1,157]

14 minutes ago, Datameister said:

* The exception is "Reminiscence Therapy". I enjoy each individual moment but I find the structure a little sloppy. I'm especially thinking of the transitions into "Attack Position" and "The Asteroid Field."

 

Enjoyable as it is, I find Reminiscence Therapy to be the most awkward track as well.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

2 hours ago, blondheim said:

I have read enough of this site to know I tread a lonely road here, but I personally think Rogue One is the better score and undeserving of the hate it has received.

"Better" is a big word.

But I fully agree it doesn't deserve being hated on.

I like it well enough.

 

1 hour ago, Datameister said:

* The exception is "Reminiscence Therapy". I enjoy each individual moment but I find the structure a little sloppy. I'm especially thinking of the transitions into "Attack Position" and "The Asteroid Field."

For some reason, I don't much listen to that track.

I feel like I like it less than I should do, given what it is.

Must be because of what you just described there.

[blondheim 1,157]

3 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

"Better" is a big word.

 

I stand by it.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

7 minutes ago, blondheim said:

 

I stand by it.

Fair enough.

 

I'm curious to read specifics of what you like about it.

Would be nice to hear something positive about it for a change.

[blondheim 1,157]

7 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

I'm curious to read specifics of what you like about it.

Would be nice to hear something positive about it for a change.

 

I love that he took the flute introduction to Leia and expanded it. What a killer idea. When I saw the film in theatres, I recognized it immediately and loved the effect it had. I really enjoyed the title card having the mutated main title theme. Called Hope? That's great. Considering it was the first film without a scroll, I thought it was just perfect. I frequently hear this theme come under fire and I have never understood that. I could hear what he was doing the first time in the theatre and involving the audience like that is important. Even if they aren't musically trained, they may recognize something without being conscious of it. When people say "he might as well have just used the main title", I think they have missed the point. I am also curious why anyone would still need Star Wars movies to start and end the same, especially when they don't have episode numbers and are stand-alone like this.

 

Jyn's theme is an absolute banger. If you don't like it, I wouldn't know what to say. The two times the bridge appears, in Eadu and Father, lay over the film so perfectly. The call-and-response nature of that passage never ceases to chill me, thrill me and fulfill me.

 

There were many moments during the final action sequence where I was emotionally affected by what was happening. Not least of which the moment with Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen. I teared up during Your Father Would Be Proud and I am not ashamed to admit it. I never expected Disney to go balls-to-the-wall like that. When the chord modulates at 3:32 I always get those goosebumps I think we all so long for. Also, and finally, the new Vader identity had choir which was a nice mixture of the prequel Anakin music like Dark Deeds and the instrumental Imperial stuff of the OT.

 

I could probably go on but that's the gist of my feelings about it.

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

As I mentioned in the heretical thoughts thread, I really love Solo. Powell seemed to be having more fun than Williams and was much bolder in using his various themes than Williams seems to have been ever since the prequels. Plus the action writing is top drawer and I have no issues with the additional percussion, the way he puts it alongside the Here They Come extracts in Reminiscence Therapy to me is just adding a slight modern twist. For my money, the way Powell puts Here They Come, the Asteroid Field and his own music together, not to mention using the original Imperial Motif, is masterful. Indeed, it's perhaps how strong the rest of the material is next to the original Williams music (don't get me wrong, Here They Come and the Asteroid Field are virtually untouchable pieces of action writing) which is impressive... when I compare that to the Battle of Crait from The Last Jedi where, despite having listened to it over a dozen times, the only part I can actually remember is that it contains an extract of Here They Come.

 

Thanks to @blondheim for his eloquent thoughts on Rogue One. I still get much more from Solo and just find everything about it just that bit more skilful than Rogue One. I definitely think that Giacchino would have benefitted from a bit more time, he wasn't given much. There's a great score in there somewhere, but it just needed a bit more refinement to draw it all together.

[publicist 4,643]

There's no great score in there, because Giacchino is just unsuited to write in Williams' symphonic idiom. The last time he - or his many helpers - halfway got there was in 2005's Ratatouille, which has a great cue called 'Dinner Rush', that may be nowhere as complex in orchestral layout as JW, but it makes up for it with pure kitchen-sink playfulness. It's been all downhill since then.

 

What drives me up the wall isn't so much the fact that many guys like Rogue One but the pattern behind it: the number of people who genuinely do not hear much of a difference between a brilliant symphonic mind - or even a rather good one like Powell - and MG, who clearly can't harmonize a tune or develop an ostinato beyond a musical third-grader, is growing - and i will fight that to the last, futile as it may be.