Popular Post Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2020 Another week, another underappreciated aspect of the Rise of Skywalker score to explore. This time, let's talk about the big new villain theme, "Psalm of the Sith." (Better known as "Anthem of Evil" but I just cannot stomach that name!) My first two impressions of the theme were I love the wordless acapella statement on track 7 of the OST; closest we get in this score to the "Legend of Darth Plageuis" unreleased snippet from ROTS we all love... This is kind of just an ersatz Imperial March, more technically fluent but maybe not much more original than Giacchino's Imperial Suite themes... Since getting to know the score much better over the past few months, I've grown to appreciate the leitmotif quite a bit more, especially after revelations like what @Ludwig pointed out last week concerning its development in "Advice." It's treated quite flexibly over the course of the TROS soundtrack, seeping into many moments where the theme isn't necessarily at the forefront. There are also some new touches, harmonically, like the emphasis on the minor-triad immediately below the tonic (e.g. Cm <=> Bm) which is fairly rare in Star Wars and a nice alternative to the over-familiar Cm<=>Abm evil progression. My favorite part has got to be the explosive and well-rounded statement of the theme in its full glory during the End Credits. I especially enjoy the build-up starting at 2:06 (shades of the Force Theme's dotted rhythm) and, even more, the delightfully gothic middle section. This 10 measure span has got to be one of the best but least-remarked-upon aspect of this entire score. Here's a transcription. Could have come straight out of Dracula or The Chamber of Secrets. If anyone can discern even a passing hint of this B-section in the score proper, say so, I am just itching to add it to my thematic catalogue. Muad'Dib, MaxTheHouseelf, The Illustrious Jerry and 12 others 13 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I love the Anthem of Evil track, but can we even confirm that "Psalm of the Sith" is the original name of it? Or that it's even a proper concert arrangement and not an edit of various film cues? I think all that is still an open question. Anyways, as for the OST track itself, I really like it, especially the quiet moody opening. What I really don't like about the track, though, is the obvious edit at the 3:08 mark. It takes me out of the trance the music has me under every time, I can't not hear it Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jay said: I love the Anthem of Evil track, but can we even confirm that "Psalm of the Sith" is the original name of it? Or that it's even a proper concert arrangement and not an edit of various film cues? I think all that is still an open question. A big open question. We've seen and tried to analyze the a screengrab of the cello part for 8m4 in another thread, but I don't think we made all that much progress: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31031-the-rise-of-skywalker-complete-score-discussion-spoilers-allowed/page/29/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 You know I'm sure it has been discussed before. But the end credits track on Clones. That part where Dooku meets Palpatine, you can clearly hear this hideous cut at 1:14. Too bad some of the original titles don't stick. Psalm of the Sith is way more powerful and fitting. Anthem of Evil sounds like some dumb mickey mouse shit. I also preferred "Concerto for Hubcaps" as the original title for the Knight Bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,044 Posted August 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2020 I love quirky Williams cue titles Falstaft, WilliamsStarShip2282 and Bellosh 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted August 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2020 Of all the new themes in TROS, I think this is the one that has the most to reveal in an expanded soundtrack release. I say this because of all the leitmotifs in the saga according to @Falstaft's catalogue, which is over 50 (considering B sections and such to be part of a single leitmotif), Anthem of Evil is the only one not to get a full statement somewhere in the film proper (i.e., not including end credits). Considering how the theme appears in the film (even with the score having been butchered), that says to me that there was a full statement and it was simply cut, omitting a vital part of the score, especially with regard to its meaning. The meaning of this theme as it is presented in the film isn't very clear because of this. I mean, in ANH, when Luke is introduced by his aunt calling "Luke! Luke!", we hear his theme on the horn - voila, the meaning is instantly clear. Nevertheless, I'm fairly certain that this is primarily a new theme for Palpatine in TROS, perhaps something like his influence, relationships, surroundings - that sort of thing - as opposed to just signifying Palpatine, which is old Emperor theme does quite well. The main places this theme shows up in TROS are when: Kylo flies to Exegol (though may be tracked or recomposed from when Rey flies to Exegol?) - someone was going to Exegol! After Kylo tells Rey she is a Palpatine Kylo tells Rey that the Dark Side is in both their natures A new Star Destroyer blows up Kijimi on Palpatine's order Rey arrives on Exegol And we also have the variations of it in "Advice" as Kylo decides to turn to good, which could be interpreted as him shedding not just evil generally but the pact he has with Palpatine, which has been driving his actions in the film. If we can look at the 3rd one above as probably an instance of Williams slightly expanding the meaning of his leitmotifs (as he so often does), it becomes clearer that the statements focus on Palpatine, either through Exegol, his bloodline, or his direct orders. It's still a bit hazy, I know, but we know how sensitive Williams is to finding a film's core and scoring to that. Vader's larger role in TESB prompted him to (thank goodness!) write him a new theme. The Emperor's important role in ROTJ prompted him to write a new theme for him. And those are the big baddies of those films, in other words, they are the ones who are really in charge pulling all the strings. Now we get to TROS and we find that Kylo really isn't the big baddie, nor was Snoke, but Palpatine. And interestingly, in TFA and TLJ, there wasn't one central villain in the way that TESB and ROTJ have one because of the relationships among Kylo, Snoke and Hux. But in TROS, within the first few minutes of the film, we get that scene at the Resistance base with Poe telling everyone that "somehow Palpatine has returned", making him the central evil of the film. And this is the kind of thing Williams is so adept at, honing in on a core feature of the narrative like that and carving out the main leitmotifs around it. So this is why I really look forward to hopefully learning more about this score and what Williams' original intentions were and at least more-or-less what he was scoring to in an earlier version of the film. But I'm certain that Anthem of Evil had a larger and/or more important role than what we hear in the final cut. crumbs, Will, The Five Tones and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Well, we can only hope that his scores are all released one day, but highly doubtful, until it gets to the point of being a million years from now, but still the scores for Korngold and such composers the studios supposedly still are very stingy with. It is amazing what greed does. They were so concerned with making a buck that music that could have been beloved staples, is now kind of forgotten about except by serious fans. Although this may be an unrelated rant........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 "Anthem of Evil" is a great title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,240 Posted August 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Falstaft said: A big open question. We've seen and tried to analyze the a screengrab of the cello part for 8m4 in another thread, but I don't think we made all that much progress: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31031-the-rise-of-skywalker-complete-score-discussion-spoilers-allowed/page/29/ We’ve got violin and cello parts in enough detail to tell 8M4 Psalm of the Sith is not part of the Anthem of Evil track, though it does also use whatever we want to call this theme. The beginning of Psalm of the Sith isn’t anything we’ve identified yet, but the bulk of it appears to be the music heard from about 1:33-3:00 in Join Me (whether it’s tracked or was directly incorporated into the music written for the scene we don’t yet know): I believe the later part of Anthem of Evil is 6M12 Six Twelve, which accompanies the destruction of Kijimi, though mostly tracked over in the final cut. The Final Order fleet rising scene may have originally been part of this sequence: if you move that scene here between the conversation with Palpatine and Pryde and the destruction of Kijimi, the second half of Anthem of Evil fits remarkably well, and the novelization has some evidence that supports that this may have been the original intention as well. I’d put a video up to demonstrate, but they seem to get taken down very fast. 2 hours ago, Ludwig said: But I'm certain that Anthem of Evil had a larger and/or more important role than what we hear in the final cut. Well, it seems it was part of 8M4 Psalm of the Sith (as outlined above), which would have given it at least one prominent use in the final confrontation scenes, which it’s notably lacking. Ludwig, Falstaft and Will 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 45 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: The beginning of Psalm of the Sith isn’t anything we’ve identified yet, but the bulk of it appears to be the music heard from about 1:33-3:00 in Join Me (whether it’s tracked or was directly incorporated into the music written for the scene we don’t yet know): Listening to this again, I'm struck by the similarities between the build-up section here (2:08-2:33) and the lead-in to the Anthem of Evil in the end credits, though the tonal relationships are reversed (Gm-Bm here, Bm-Gm in the credits). Not a detail wasted in this score. And those ascending dotted figures outlining minor chords also recall The Force Theme, and maybe even more specifically, its fragmentation in "Torn Apart" from TFA. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,457 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Personnally I call it "Bespin's Theme". SingeMoisi and Falstaft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Is the part at 1:35 a coincidence or just like when Vader is egging Luke on by telling him he knows about his sister in ROTJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 10 hours ago, SilverTrumpet said: Is the part at 1:35 a coincidence or just like when Vader is egging Luke on by telling him he knows about his sister in ROTJ? Nice catch! It even starts out at pitch, though the two cues quickly diverge after the first couple of notes (C#-C-F#-F-D-B in TROS, C#-C-F-E-Ab-G in ROTJ). I'd say it's unlikely this is a deliberate allusion; Star Wars is full of these low, plodding chromatic lines for ominous scenes. But you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Falstaft said: Nice catch! It even starts out at pitch, though the two cues quickly diverge after the first couple of notes (C#-C-F#-F-D-B in TROS, C#-C-F-E-Ab-G in ROTJ). I'd say it's unlikely this is a deliberate allusion; Star Wars is full of these low, plodding chromatic lines for ominous scenes. But you never know... I feel like it could have lasted longer, but the big problem with the concert arrangement is it doesn't sound like one. It starts out with an idea and either spends too much time on it or not enough time. The beginning goes on for too long and I space out, and the the ending is abrupt. I like the subtle use in the movie, but the track itself is meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,126 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I’m not convinced Anthem of Evil isn’t a film cue, like the original version of the destruction of Kijimi or something like that. Maybe it’s already confirmed not to be a film cue from the partial cue list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said: I feel like it could have lasted longer, but the big problem with the concert arrangement is it doesn't sound like one. I suppose it doesn't sound like one because it really isn't one. From what we can tell, it's a film cue, or (more likely in my opinion), a couple of different cues that were stitched together. And some of those stitches are more successful than others. It's telling that the TROS piano album's version of "Anthem of Evil" is solely the opening choral part. You can see & play the whole thing here: https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/anthem-of-evil-from-the-rise-of-skywalker-digital-sheet-music/21698591 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 It sounds like Holdo's Resolve, but evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 The obvious edit at 3:08 solidifies for me that it wasn't recorded as a pure concert arrangement. It could be purely various film cues stitched together (like "Irina's Theme"), or it could be a "Theme From Jurassic Park" situation where he wrote a specific album-only intro to lead into a part of a film cue... But yea, great theme in general, and I hope a future expanded release reveals it was intended to be use more (both more often and in grander statements) originally (and they were recorded) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: It sounds like Holdo's Resolve, but evil Hmm...you're right. Evil Sith woman confirmed. At least that one puzzling use of Palpatine's theme in TLJ retroactively makes sense. (and don't tell me Williams knew the whole time. He obviously didn't.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,126 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I don’t think it’s that puzzling in TLJ. The scene evoked Palpatine torturing Luke in ROTJ so Williams wanted to remind of that scene, if all the other allusions weren’t obvious enough. It’s a touch I like a lot, but doesn’t work as well in light of the fact that Palpatine actually showed up. I don’t read it as Williams having any deep purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,276 Posted August 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2020 19 hours ago, Ludwig said: So this is why I really look forward to hopefully learning more about this score and what Williams' original intentions were and at least more-or-less what he was scoring to in an earlier version of the film. But I'm certain that Anthem of Evil had a larger and/or more important role than what we hear in the final cut. Wasn't it rumoured that Palpatine's presence/resurrection originally didn't happen until later in the film? I know everyone's speculated ad nauseum about why Disney withheld basically all footage and artwork of the scenes on Exogol, lending credence to the theory that the film was significant reworked during production (not to mention the opening scene making no sense and coming across like a thoughtless rush-job). Vaguely recall early rumours that Kylo Ren's first visit to Exogol had him encountering a decrepit, unrecognizable man that would later be revealed as Palpatine. So perhaps Williams conceived this new villainous theme to use as an identity for this mysterious character, without giving away this true identity (which the Emperor's Theme obviously would)? Fast forward a few months and Disney's marketing team decided to reveal Palpatine in the marketing, thus negating any need to keep his character a secret in-film, and effectively rendering Williams' new theme pointless. A timeline of when he wrote cues would be helpful; we could identify whether all the heavily Emperor-focused cues were latter revisions. And don't forget lots of the Emperor material is tracked in from ROTS, indicating JW's original intentions didn't feature the theme. Off the top of my head, The Emperor Lives and Falcon Flight were late/revised cues, along with almost everything in reel 7. 35 minutes ago, Jay said: It could be purely various film cues stitched together (like "Irina's Theme"), or it could be a "Theme From Jurassic Park" situation where he wrote a specific album-only intro to lead into a part of a film cue... It looks very stitched together in the spectogram. Definitely not a legitimate concert suite (at least, not recorded as one, it seems like a combination of a bunch of stuff). The ending is definitely artificial, as you've identified, lending credence to the theory the track is partially 6M12 Six Twelve (the destruction of Kijimi) with a fake ending replacing the actual ending of the cue (which is partially heard in the film). Will, Fabulin, Holko and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Yea, so he might have written the eerie choir opening specifically for the album, intending it to lead into the already recorded music for the Destruction of Kijimi to create the album track Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 So then what was the rest of the original concert suite that they had to track stuff in from the film versions? Was it the more upbeat version from the end credits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 If I understand the points above, the original concert suite was just the quiet chanting at the beginning, then you see those awkward edits that made up the rest of the concert suite. Was something else supposed to come after the quiet chanting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I was not speculating that he recorded an entire pure concert arrangement, then later replaced the ending with a film cue for the album. I was speculating that he recorded a specific album-only intro, that was always intended to segue into an already recorded film cue. This is exactly how Theme from Jurassic Park was created; 0:00-0:48 and 3:15-end of that track are a specific album-only intro (3M2 Record Intro) and outro (3M2 Wompi Ending), while 0:48-3:15 is just 3M2 The Dinosaurs, literally identical to what's in Journey To The Island, same takes and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted August 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2020 11 hours ago, crumbs said: Wasn't it rumoured that Palpatine's presence/resurrection originally didn't happen until later in the film? I know everyone's speculated ad nauseum about why Disney withheld basically all footage and artwork of the scenes on Exogol, lending credence to the theory that the film was significant reworked during production (not to mention the opening scene making no sense and coming across like a thoughtless rush-job). Vaguely recall early rumours that Kylo Ren's first visit to Exogol had him encountering a decrepit, unrecognizable man that would later be revealed as Palpatine. So perhaps Williams conceived this new villainous theme to use as an identity for this mysterious character, without giving away this true identity (which the Emperor's Theme obviously would)? Fast forward a few months and Disney's marketing team decided to reveal Palpatine in the marketing, thus negating any need to keep his character a secret in-film, and effectively rendering Williams' new theme pointless. A timeline of when he wrote cues would be helpful; we could identify whether all the heavily Emperor-focused cues were latter revisions. And don't forget lots of the Emperor material is tracked in from ROTS, indicating JW's original intentions didn't feature the theme. Off the top of my head, The Emperor Lives and Falcon Flight were late/revised cues, along with almost everything in reel 7. An attractive theory, @crumbs! It makes a good deal of sense. I've just been trying to research what the facts are, or at least the things that we believe are facts at this point. There's the partial cue list of the Nov. 11 cut: Spoiler 1M01 Main Title 1M022 The Ninth Beginning 1M05 Rey Trains 1M06 Ren's Entrance 1M08 Approaching The Nursery 1M09 Rey Wakes Up 1M13 Tell Me What They Are 1M15 Vader's Castle 1M20 Rey Training 1M24 Meditation 1M26 Spy's Message 1M26 Lightspeed Skipping 2M01 Cockpit Dialog 2M02 Fixing The Helmet 2M03 The Wisdom of Maz 2M04 The Emperor Lives 2M06 The Medal 2M07 Ship Trip 2M20 The Forge 2M30 Rey's Mission 2M32 Quicksand 0M01 Children's School 3M00 Lando 3M01 Before The Chase 3M03 No Title 3M06 Knights of Ren 3M07 Ochi and the Dagger 4M01 Rey Senses Ren's Approach 4M02 Rey's Incredible Hand 4M04 Zucini? 4M05 To The End 4M05B Good Ship, Bad Ship 4M06 He Won't Remember 4M07 Rey's Grief 4M10 Red Eyes 4M11 Poe and Girlfriend 4M12 Ship Walk and Talk 5M01 Meddling and Poe's Crush 5M03 Hallway Shooting 5M05 Rey Sees Mother 5M06 Hard To Get Rid Of 5M07 I'm The Spy 5M08 Geneology 5M10 Landing At ? 5M12 Off The Waterfront 5M30 Under a Blanket 6M02 Rey Climbs Pipes 6M02A Climbing 6M04 Daisy In A Veil 6M05 Leia Lies Down 6M07 Stop and Start 6M08 Healing Wounds 6M12 Six Twelve 6M13 Rey's Trip To P 6M20 Sabre Toss 7M01 Seven One 7M02 Rey Meets Luke 7M03 Luke's Advice 7M04 The Meeting 7M05 March Of The Resistance 7M08 Father Knows Best 7M10 Leia's Sabre 7M12 Seven Twelve 7M12A Horses #2 7M20 Approaching The Throne 7M21 Parents 7M30 More Action 7M32 Make The Sacrifice 7M36 Dunkirk 7M38 I Am All The Sith 8M04 Psalm of the Sith 8M05 Jumping The Chain 8M07 Big Ship Blows Up 8M08 On Their Knees 8M10 Success and Sliding 8M11A Dropping The Sabre 8M14 Ben to Rey 8M15 Horn Solo 8M16 End Credits 9M03 Bows 9M05ALT Return to Tattooine The list also contains the two source pieces not composed by Williams: 2S35 JJ Festival Music 3S35 JJ Bar Source As well as the cue names from prior scores that were tracked into this cut: 13M2 from Ep.6 Vader's Death 7M03 from Ep.3 The Birth of the Twins 7M05 from Ep.3 Plans for the Twins 3M26R from Ep.7 You're Han Solo? 4M36R from Ep.7 I Ran Into You 5M46R from Ep.7 Kylo Stalks Rey 6M50R from Ep.7 Han and Leia Reunion 6M55R from Ep.7 Council Meeting 6M56E from Ep.7 Ren In Cockpit 8M77 from Ep.7 March Of The Resistance 4M36 from Ep.8 Luke and Rey UPDATE: Additional cue titles found in GEMA Repertoire: Chewie's Interrogation Emperor's Attack Emperor's Theme V3 Falcon's Last Trip Filial Fencing Hero Fight It Fits! Kylo's Theme Lido Hey [JJ Abrams/Lin-Manuel Miranda] More Maz Name That Tune Poe's Theme Ready to Be a Jedi Rey and Ren Rey's Training The Crowd Joins In The Dunkirk Shot The Feeling The Last Fight The Millennium Falcon Theme The Resistance Theme Through the Jungle Tunnel Monster Uncharted Territory Wayfinder Insert The later appearance of Palpatine would depend on whether he was introduced in 2M04 The Emperor Lives or perhaps in 1M08 Approaching the Nursery. It's possible 2M04 may have been, say, the reveal that he is alive to the Resistance and that 1M08 was the reveal to the audience. Some tracking noted by yourself: Spoiler Peace and Purpose tracked into General Pryde's death Starry Night poorly tracked into the post-crawl tilt down Finn's Confession sounded tracked for that chat with Jannah A Home for the Twins tracked into a chat between Poe and Lando (I think) Darth Vader's Death tracked into the Death Star II Emperor's Throne Room reveal Lesson Two (or whatever you call the cue that follows Rey's lightsaber training cue in TLJ) tracked somewhere, can't remember where A fragment of Attack on the Jakku Village tracked somewhere else A fragment of The Abduction (the part where Kylo swings his saber into Rey's face while she's frozen) And other tracking noted by @Smaug the iron: Spoiler 3M2 from Ep.6 Vader's Death 7M03 from Ep.3 The Birth of the Twins 7M05 from Ep.3 Plans for the Twins 3M26R from Ep.7 You're Han Solo? 4M36R from Ep.7 I Ran Into You 5M46R from Ep.7 Kylo Stalks Rey 6M50R from Ep.7 Han and Leia Reunion 6M55R from Ep.7 Council Meeting 6M56E from Ep.7 Ren In Cockpit 8M77 from Ep.7 March Of The Resistance 4M36 from Ep.8 Luke and Rey 9m85A from Ep.8 Rey Looks I think it would make sense that Williams was not so keen on using the old Emperor's theme for Palpatine, because when there's a central villain who's known to the good guys (in other words, a big baddie that is the source of the conflict), Williams has tended to write a big new theme for them (Vader in TESB, the Emperor in ROTJ). Yes, Palpatine is the same person here, but he's in a new context as the villain who was (apparently) in the shadows and has now been revealed to wreak his havoc on the Resistance. There's also the greater emphasis on the spiritual and supernatural nature of it, which is no doubt what inspired the a cappella version of Anthem of Evil. So it makes sense that Williams wrote Anthem of Evil for Palpatine in this new context. After all, with the exception of TLJ, where the temp track was used in lieu of spotting sessions and was almost certainly the reason for the fewer new themes than one would expect, Williams does seem to like characterizing each new Star Wars score with its new themes even when there are many old ones as well. Now what parts of ROTS were tracked that use the Emperor theme? I couldn't find it among those listed in the spoiler tags above. Yannick, Tiburon and Falstaft 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 8 hours ago, Ludwig said: Now what parts of ROTS were tracked that use the Emperor theme? I couldn't find it among those listed in the spoiler tags above. I believe it's 7M03 "Birth of the Twins" -- the music heard right after Kijimi is blown up in TROS, and when Palp is returning to Coruscant at the end of ROTS, respectively. Another facet of this theme that hasn't gotten so much attention is that it garners an unaccompanied, non-texted choral arrangement. Maybe because it's such a strikingly obvious feature, but I'm hard-pressed to think of other truly voice-only sections in the Star Wars series. Snoke's "theme" I suppose, though that's almost more a musical texture than anything else. Even "Palpatine's TV Set" has some bizarre other stuff going on above the voices. Really, the closest relatives that come to mind would be from AI and Empire of the Sun. Ludwig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 497 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 47 minutes ago, Ludwig said: Now what parts of ROTS were tracked that use the Emperor theme? I couldn't find it among those listed in the spoiler tags above 7m03 The Birth of the Twins Ludwig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,240 Posted August 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2020 35 minutes ago, Falstaft said: I believe it's 7M03 "Birth of the Twins" -- the music heard right after Kijimi is blown up in TROS, and when Palp is returning to Coruscant at the end of ROTS, respectively That same opening section of “Birth of the Twins” with the Emperor’s theme is even tracked a second time in TROS not too long afterwards, after Rey arrives on Exegol. 37 minutes ago, Falstaft said: Another aspect of this theme that hasn't gotten so much attention is that it garners an unaccompanied, non-texted choral arrangement. Maybe because it's such a strikingly obvious feature, but I'm hard-pressed to think of other truly voice-only sections in the Star Wars series. Snoke's "theme" I suppose, though that's almost more a musical texture than anything else. Even "Palpatine's TV Set" has some bizarre other stuff going on above the voices. Really, the closest relatives that come to mind would be from AI and Empire of the Sun. “The Patronus Light” also comes to mind. I’d be curious in both cases if they were originally written to be used unaccompanied, or if Williams just happened to like how they sounded that way. It seems the usual practice for JW scores of the last 20 years or so to is to record the chorus and orchestra separately, so there is some chance the opening of “Anthem of Evil” is actually the choral parts of some unknown cue. @Jay Is there any evidence one way or the other if “The Patronus Light” was ever intended to be used as heard on the album, or if the orchestral accompaniment was planned from the beginning? Ludwig, Will and Falstaft 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Smaug the iron said: 7m03 The Birth of the Twins Just an aside, I love the Emperor's Theme in this cue! It's so powerful and dark and ugghh I need it! Smaug The Iron and Falstaft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,505 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 There is already that amazing Emperor's Theme rendition when Tie fighters fly in, before The Emperor Lives. Quote 1M26 Spy's Message 1M26 Lightspeed Skipping 2M01 Cockpit Dialog 2M02 Fixing The Helmet 2M03 The Wisdom of Maz 2M04 The Emperor Lives If there was ever an ambiguity who the mysterious Sith lord was... well, that's where it would have ended. Which I doubt anyway, because Ian McDiarmid had his "roll it again" reveal on April 13th 2019. By May 11th 2019 Williams had written just around 25 minutes, based on the news from back then: Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Falcon Flight was a latter cue which replaced what Williams originally wrote for the Falcon escape/lightspeed skipping sequence. I don't think we know if the early version contained the Emperor's Theme (correct me if I'm wrong @BrotherSound). Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Decrypting the creation of TROS, both score and film, is a fools’ errand. But that’s what JWFan excels at, so I’m looking forward to having a full rundown of every second of composed music and their respective scenes deciphered in the next few years. I was here to see it happen with the prequels and I’ll sit here and see it again with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,505 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Oh I didn’t intend negativity at all - quite the contrary. I see it as a mammoth task, just one that I’ll admire from the sidelines, just as I did when the prequels were catalogued meticulously. I genuinely appreciate the effort! Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Fabulin said: By May 11th 2019 Williams had written just around 25 minutes, based on the news from back then: Williams had written almost 10 percent of the score by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said: Decrypting the creation of TROS, both score and film, is a fools’ errand. But that’s what JWFan excels at, so I’m looking forward to having a full rundown of every second of composed music and their respective scenes deciphered in the next few years. I was here to see it happen with the prequels and I’ll sit here and see it again with this one. That mammoth task is what's so interesting about them. The movies themselves are total stinkers but trying to figure out how the hell they became what they did is fascinating to me. The holy grail of discovering this would be finding out what Lucas's original intentions were. I have a feeling he would have done exile Luke, but not Palpatine. Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Arpy said: Just an aside, I love the Emperor's Theme in this cue! It's so powerful and dark and ugghh I need it! A wonderful statement of the theme, almost luscious sounding, but in a dark way. All too short, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAvengerButton 175 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Since we are on the subject of the writing process... I often wonder if the repeated motif from the Speeder Chase was one he wrote earlier in the writing process, only for it to be replaced by the more heroic variant later. Back to Anthem of Evil, I'm overall happy with it. Everyone was wanting Williams to write a theme for the First Order and we kind of get that here, although not how you'd think. I think people really like the bombastic military marches that Williams writes for his villains (the Droid March, imperial March, Arena March) and we just don't get that here, which is actually quite refreshing. We do get Anthem of Evil in march mode at times throughout the film (the destruction of Kijimi comes to mind, as does the End Credits appearance) but nothing that I think would wholly satisfy the fans of his earlier work. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 8/12/2020 at 5:54 PM, BrotherSound said: The Final Order fleet rising scene may have originally been part of this sequence: if you move that scene here between the conversation with Palpatine and Pryde and the destruction of Kijimi, the second half of Anthem of Evil fits remarkably well, and the novelization has some evidence that supports that this may have been the original intention as well. I’d put a video up to demonstrate, but they seem to get taken down very fast. I just listened to the audiobook, The Novelisation has the fleet rising in the same spot as in the film. Unless I misunderstood you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,240 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, The River (Fal) said: I just listened to the audiobook, The Novelisation has the fleet rising in the same spot as in the film. Unless I misunderstood you I’m not saying that scene was in a different place in the novelization, just that the extended conversation of Palpatine and Pryde, during which he shows off a hologram of the Sith fleet, suggests perhaps it was here originally, especially when the leaks suggest that the scene was moved much earlier in the film. The second half of Fanfare and Prologue also happens to perfectly fit the first Exegol scene if the fleet rising is removed… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Oh okay. BTW The novelization starts with Rey training (instead of Kylo on Mustafar) and having a vision of the Throne instead of whatever is in the film IIRC. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 15, 2020 Author Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 10:48 AM, Not Mr. Big said: It sounds like Holdo's Resolve, but evil Indeed. There's even a melodic preview of sorts in TLJ here: It's probably all part of that Tension/Desperation/Ludlow motivic complex Williams draws from so often. To paraphrase Maz Kanata: if you listen long enough, you see the same melodic patterns in different leitmotifs. Yannick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,240 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 15 hours ago, The River (Fal) said: BTW The novelization starts with Rey training (instead of Kylo on Mustafar) and having a vision of the Throne instead of whatever is in the film IIRC. Yeah, the novelizations always play fast and loose with the precise ordering of scenes, so I’d take that with a grain of salt. But, it can still be useful for details of what might have been. For instance, the Chewie’s Interrogation scene is restored, which seems to have been filmed since there’s a cue with that title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 is there any sheet music out there for that part of the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted August 15, 2020 Author Share Posted August 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, The River (Fal) said: is there any sheet music out there for that part of the film? Not that I know of. But what a day it will be when they do leak. I have hope, given that the other SW scores are floating around in some form or another, and we do have bits & pieces of info about TROS, like the cue list, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 hour ago, BrotherSound said: Yeah, the novelizations always play fast and loose with the precise ordering of scenes, so I’d take that with a grain of salt. The partial cue list wr have does hint that that ordering could be valid tho, with Rey Trains being 1m05 and Rens Entrance being 1m06 BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 On 8/15/2020 at 11:48 AM, TheAvengerButton said: I often wonder if the repeated motif from the Speeder Chase was one he wrote earlier in the writing process, only for it to be replaced by the more heroic variant later. What's the distinction? Is there a non-heroic statement in the cue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,615 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 10:48 AM, Not Mr. Big said: It sounds like Holdo's Resolve, but evil yeah your right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now