"Psalm of the Sith" (aka "Anthem of Evil") from Ep. 9 Appreciation

[Falstaft 2,132]

12 hours ago, King Mark said:

 yeah your right

 

It's also got an affinity w/ General Grievous's motif, both emphasizing that big octave-spanning leap down to ^#4. And that same phrase even recalls this little phrase from ESB:

 

 

Williams has got his fingerprints, no doubt about that.

[BrotherSound 2,241]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:23 AM, Falstaft said:

Here's a transcription. Could have come straight out of Dracula or The Chamber of Secrets. If anyone can discern even a passing hint of this B-section in the score proper, say so, I am just itching to add it to my thematic catalogue.

 

Not sure if it’s quite enough to count, but there’s the briefest hint of it here, after Kijimi blows up: 

 

 

Same chord (relative to the key), same first two notes, and similar instrumentation. It seems like it’s about to go into a full statement of the B section (which it may well have originally, given how highly edited this score is!).

[Falstaft 2,132]

8 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

Not sure if it’s quite enough to count, but there’s the briefest hint of it here, after Kijimi blows up: 

 

Same chord (relative to the key), same first two notes, and similar instrumentation.

 

Excellent catch, @BrotherSound. Yep, that's the Anthem B-section! Or, at least, the pickup to it. 

 

I'm putting together another update to my catalogue that will include it. Since I started numbering themes and their components, I feel like I have a little more license to include indicating lesser-used portions of familiar leitmotifs, without giving the impression they're important or used a lot (or even at all, in this case, or Rose's B-Theme).

 

[Jay 37,249]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:06 AM, BrotherSound said:

 Is there any evidence one way or the other if “The Patronus Light” was ever intended to be used as heard on the album, or if the orchestral accompaniment was planned from the beginning?

 

I believe The Patronus Light, The Patrnous Power, and The Dementors Circle were not written to sync to any specific scenes, more as just general textures Cuaron could put where needed

[Falstaft 2,132]

16 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

Not sure if it’s quite enough to count, but there’s the briefest hint of it here, after Kijimi blows up: 

 

Come to think of it, there's some other places where this pick-up figure, or something very much like it, is used. For example, this cut music from (I assume) the opening scene where Kylo Ren's battles against the Vader cultists. More reason to include it in a thematic catalogue.

 

[Faleel 5,326]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

I believe The Patronus Light and The Dementors Circle were not written to sync to any specific scenes, more as just general textures Cuaron could put where needed

Were'nt those in a mockup of a cue, posted by @ragoz350 recently?

[Jay 37,249]

The album track "The Dementors Converge" always had "The Patronus Light" mixed into it

 

The LLL track "The Dementors Converge (Film Version)" doesn't use it, like the film doesn't

[Yannick 40]

 

On 8/12/2020 at 5:07 PM, Ludwig said:

Nevertheless, I'm fairly certain that this is primarily a new theme for Palpatine in TROS, perhaps something like his influence, relationships, surroundings - that sort of thing - as opposed to just signifying Palpatine, which is old Emperor theme does quite well. The main places this theme shows up in TROS are when:

1. Kylo flies to Exegol (though may be tracked or recomposed from when Rey flies to Exegol?) - someone was going to Exegol!
2. After Kylo tells Rey she is a Palpatine
3. Kylo tells Rey that the Dark Side is in both their natures
4. A new Star Destroyer blows up Kijimi on Palpatine's order
5. Rey arrives on Exegol

 

Absolutely! In my mind, this was the full evilness Emperor's theme. It remindes me more to that than to Imperial March, tbh. And is used in so many different ways! Is there any other Star Wars theme so versatile and which Williams exploited it in so many ways in a single movie? I don't think so! I have to say, my favourite is the choir heard in the beggining of track 7. That sounds tenebrous. But is not in the movie, isn't it? 

[Jay 37,249]

Nope

[Falstaft 2,132]

31 minutes ago, Yannick said:

I have to say, my favourite is the choir heard in the beggining of track 7. That sounds tenebrous.

 

Maybe Williams was reading Wookiepedia 

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Tenebrous

[ragoz350 450]

On 8/17/2020 at 5:26 PM, Spider-Fal said:

Were'nt those in a mockup of a cue, posted by @ragoz350 recently?

I only mixed "The Dementor Circle" and "The Patronus Power" with "The Dementor Converge"...

[sorry for offtopic]

[Yannick 40]

6 hours ago, Falstaft said:

 

Maybe Williams was reading Wookiepedia 

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Tenebrous

 

 

That wasn't on purpose! Tenebrous, sinister, super evil! 

[Arpy 4,145]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:07 AM, Ludwig said:

Nevertheless, I'm fairly certain that this is primarily a new theme for Palpatine in TROS, perhaps something like his influence, relationships, surroundings - that sort of thing - as opposed to just signifying Palpatine, which is old Emperor theme does quite well.

I reckon it would be fair to say that instead of linking to any one specific character, it's a more encompassing theme that signifies evil in a general sense. As you say, we already have the Emperor's Theme, so to me, this is the Anti-Light Side/Force Theme - just as the Force Theme can cover multiple characters or motives. 

[crumbs 14,287]

Yeah, I just think of it as a nebulous evil/Sith theme, not tied to any particular character (a nice bookend to Duel of the Fates in the first film, if you're into poetry).

[Arpy 4,145]

Is it just me or does the theme sound like a heavily extrapolated sinister version of Rey's Theme? Maybe I'm hearing things?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

12 hours ago, ragoz350 said:

I only mixed "The Dementor Circle" and "The Patronus Power" with "The Dementor Converge"...

[sorry for offtopic]

 

Also off-topic but I love your signature. 

[Faleel 5,326]

4 hours ago, Arpy said:

Is it just me or does the theme sound like a heavily extrapolated sinister version of Rey's Theme? Maybe I'm hearing things?

Not just you, I also heard Rey's theme.

[Yannick 40]

7 hours ago, Arpy said:

Is it just me or does the theme sound like a heavily extrapolated sinister version of Rey's Theme? Maybe I'm hearing things?

 

2 hours ago, Spider-Fal said:

Not just you, I also heard Rey's theme.

 

Maybe because is similar to Emperor's theme, same as Rey's? I'm just guessing.

[Falstaft 2,132]

8 hours ago, Arpy said:

Is it just me or does the theme sound like a heavily extrapolated sinister version of Rey's Theme? Maybe I'm hearing things?

 

I never noticed this before, but now I absolutely can hear it. 

 

To get a little technical, I think it's the characteristic fa - so melodic motion that links the two themes. In the Psalm of the Sith, it's a corrupted ^#4-^5, and with a brief skip back down to ^1, but overall same essential melodic behavior. Fantastic!

 

Rey: C  Eb  G   C   F   G

Sith: C  Eb  D   F#  C   G

[Arpy 4,145]

It's fitting that two of the major themes of TRoS should be related to Rey in some way, both light and dark.

[Yannick 40]

2 hours ago, Falstaft said:

 

I never noticed this before, but now I absolutely can hear it. 

 

To get a little technical, I think it's the characteristic fa - so melodic motion that links the two themes. In the Psalm of the Sith, it's a corrupted ^#4-^5, and with a brief skip back down to ^1, but overall same essential melodic behavior. Fantastic!

 

Rey: C  Eb  G   C   F   G

Sith: C  Eb  D   F#  C   G

 

Nice! Same first 2 notes as Emperor, but with that motion inverted?

 

Emperor: C Eb C Eb C Bb C Eb C G F# F

 

 

[Ludwig 1,120]

17 hours ago, Arpy said:

I reckon it would be fair to say that instead of linking to any one specific character, it's a more encompassing theme that signifies evil in a general sense. As you say, we already have the Emperor's Theme, so to me, this is the Anti-Light Side/Force Theme - just as the Force Theme can cover multiple characters or motives. 

 

16 hours ago, crumbs said:

Yeah, I just think of it as a nebulous evil/Sith theme, not tied to any particular character (a nice bookend to Duel of the Fates in the first film, if you're into poetry).

 

I thought this too at first. But I've since discovered (through sources that must remain anonymous at this point) that Williams originally wrote a complete statement of the theme in 1M8 Approaching the Nursery (which, notably, was originally titled "Approaching the Emperor") that was cut from the scene. While still uncertain at this point, it seems likely this was Williams' intended first statement of the theme in the film. It also seems to have been one of the first cues of a handful that he began scoring. And for it to occur in the scene where Kylo meets Palpatine, and in complete form, strongly suggests that his intention was to link the theme to Palpatine specifically, or perhaps the relationship between Kylo and Palpatine. But given Williams' predilection for writing character themes rather than relationship themes other than for love relationships, I'd say it's a new Palpatine theme, one for his new influence rather than just his character, as I said above.

 

With this new information, I have a hard time believing it's just a generic evil theme. When Williams has new themes in SW films, he has a full statement at an important point in the narrative or at a time that makes the association clear, not the wishy-washy association we get in the final cut. I don't know what was happening exactly when Anthem of Evil appears to have been introduced but it was most likely where Kylo and Palpatine meet, and given this was probably the theme's first appearance, that it's given in full, and given its other important uses in the final film (destruction of Kijimi on Palpatine's orders, Rey discovering she is a Palpatine, the arrivals on Exegol), I'm led to believe it was primarily a Palpatine-specific theme.

 

By the way, for whatever reason, the cut version of Anthem of Evil from 1M8 is on the OST in Join Me:

 

 

[greenturnedblue 371]

3 hours ago, Ludwig said:

By the way, for whatever reason, the cut version of Anthem of Evil from 1M8 is on the OST in Join Me

 

cant believe they cut out stuff like this and then go and track in Sheev's theme from previous movies!