Popular Post Fabulin 3,511 Posted August 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2020 Admittedly, and what is to be expected, the majority of great 20th century conductors was not active anymore by the 1980s. From among those that were, however, I found that they didn't really conduct Williams' music. Generation 1900-1924: Antal Dorati (1906-1988) NO Herbert von Karajan (1908-1989) NO Erich Leinsdorf (1912-1993) NO Sergiu Celibidache (1912-1996) NO Georg Solti (1912-1997) NO Rafael Kubelik (1914-1996) NO Carlo Maria Giulini (1914-2005) NO Leonard Bernstein (1918-1990) NO (for such a musical omnivore and a friend of Williams at the same time, this is just strange) Neville Marriner (1924-2016) NO Generation 1925-1949: Charles Mackerras (1925-2010) NO Kurt Masur (1927-2015) YES (concert only) Herbert Blomstedt (1927-) NO Nikolaus Harnoncourt (1929-2016) NO Andre Previn (1929-2019) YES (concert and early only?) Bernard Haitink (1929-) NO Carlos Kleiber (1930-2004) NO Lorin Maazel (1930-2014) NO Claudio Abbado (1933-2014) NO Seiji Ozawa (1935-) YES Zubin Mehta (1936-) YES Neeme Jarvi (1937-) NO Riccardo Muti (1941-) NO Daniel Barenboim (1942-) NO Mariss Jansons (1943-2019) NO James Levine (1943-) YES (concert music only?) Michael Tilson Thomas (1944-) NO *Leonard Slatkin (1944-) YES Generation 1950-1974: Valery Gergiev (1953-) NO Riccardo Chailly (1953-) NO Simon Rattle (1955-) YES, but only in an open air concert *Marin Alsop (1956-) YES *Esa-Pekka Salonen (1958-) YES How come they conducted pieces like the Rakóczy March, Dance of the Knights, Tchaikovsky's ballet tracks, The Planets, not to mention Bolero, Carnival of the Animals, Peter and Wolf, Sousa marches, or even some meretricious Strauss polkas, and yet nothing (or virtually nothing) by Williams? Generation 1975-1999: *Andris Nelsons (1978-) YES Gustavo Dudamel (1981-) YES Feel free to point to examples that prove I'm wrong about specific individuals, or to say something about the more recent generations of (major) conductors, which may not be known to me that well. I can find on the web plenty of recordings or performances by renowned specialist conductors (usually not highly esteemed for their interpretations of symphonies, operas, or concerti) or by provincial, pops, or youth orchestra generalist conductors. But not by the famous ones. Is it changing? Will it change? Any comments or thoughts? Tydirium, Taikomochi and SteveMc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Hmmmmm...uhmmmmmmm....huh....well.... Jurassic Shark and Tydirium 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Don't forget Leonard Slatkin. He is fairly well-regarded and a major champion of Williams' work. Another up-and-coming star (Philadelphia's lead guest conductor and St. Louis' new MD) is Stéphane Denève, also a major champion of Williams. And while it may have been just that one New World Symphony concert down in Miami, MTT did in fact conduct Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 His film music or concert composition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Morton Gould André Previn conducted JW's symphony. John Wilson Krzysztof Urbanski Christoph Eschenbach Franz Welser-Möst Fabulin and tmarps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 He certainly doesn't need anybody to ' champion' his film music; it wasn't written to be performed in it's original conception.. He plays his own music to large audiences. It would be like one of those ' tribute' bands who tour as imitators of famous rock bands! Now, his symphonies, concertos ...thats a different case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Andris Nelsons conducted his music. A big name in the classical world. Fabulin and Matt S. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 18 hours ago, Fabulin said: James Levine (1943-) ??? James Levine commissioned, conducted and recorded JW's harp concerto "On Willows and Birches". Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Then he sexually harassed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: André Previn conducted JW's symphony. And wanted to keep him away from Hollywood. Did he ever conduct the music from the film scores? 2 hours ago, Score said: James Levine commissioned, conducted and recorded JW's harp concerto "On Willows and Birches". Likewise, that's a new concerto. What about the other 90% of JW's repertoire? 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Morton Gould John Wilson Krzysztof Urbanski Christoph Eschenbach These are not "big names" compared to Harnoncourt, Solti, Jansons, or Marriner. I was asking about the latter group, which performs usually with well-funded, famous orchestras. 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Franz Welser-Möst Welser-Möst only did that because he was a replacement conductor when Ozawa fell ill. He wouldn't on his own accord. My observation is that Williams' music being conducted is a very unusual thing, usually caused by some special circumstances, unlike a concert with the music of Brahms or Rimsky or Ravel or Bizet. 5 hours ago, Tydirium said: Don't forget Leonard Slatkin. He is fairly well-regarded and a major champion of Williams' work. Another up-and-coming star (Philadelphia's lead guest conductor and St. Louis' new MD) is Stéphane Denève, also a major champion of Williams. And while it may have been just that one New World Symphony concert down in Miami, MTT did in fact conduct Williams. St. Louis, assistant to Ozawa... such things link them to a specific local public or personal influence. I have a suspicion that Williams has a much better standing "locally" as an American composer than as an international composer. I wonder how will it look like in the future. Initially Verdi also had a much stronger Italian presence than internationally, which changed over time. Maybe the same will be with Williams. 4 hours ago, Steve said: Andris Nelsons conducted his music. A big name in the classical world. Point taken. Let's see with what orchestras and in what circumstances will he continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, Fabulin said: These are not "big names" compared to Harnoncourt, Solti, Jansons, or Marriner. I was asking about the latter group, which performs usually with well-funded, famous orchestras. All of those I listed are big names, and the orchestras they conduct are certainly "well funded". Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, Fabulin said: Point taken. Let's see with what orchestras and in what circumstances will he continue to do so He has conducted every major orchestra in europe and US. He is the leader of Gewandhaus Orchestra and Boston Symphony these days. And he conducted this years new year's concert in Vienna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 That's not what Fabulin asked about. To get back on track, I have the impression that Riccardo Muti of the CSO and JW are mutual admirers. But has Muti ever performed JW in concert? Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Does Marin Also qualify as a "big name" yet? She's chief conductor of the Vienna Radio Symphony Orchestra now, which is after all Vienna's primary orchestra for contemporary music. And as far as I know, she has conducted Williams' music in concert before. 6 hours ago, bruce marshall said: He certainly doesn't need anybody to ' champion' his film music; it wasn't written to be performed in it's original conception.. I disagree. While support the film is its primary function, it seems clear (if not from the way he writes, then from the fact that he's been writing and recording concert arrangements of his themes along with the original score for decades) that Williams very much deliberately writes at least part his scores as music that can (and often will) be performed in concert. 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: To get back on track, I have the impression that Riccardo Muti of the CSO and JW are mutual admirers. But has Muti ever performed JW in concert? I've read statements to that effect a few times over the past few days. Where does that come from? Just from the one photo where they met at the Musikverein (which seems rather inconclusive to me), or is there more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Fabulin said: And wanted to keep him away from Hollywood. Did he ever conduct the music from the film scores? I'm only familiar with Previn conducting the symphony, as previously mentioned. But he has PERFORMED John Williams film music as pianist, on this album: It has "A Million Bucks" from CHECKMATE and "Tuesday's Theme" from BACHELOR FLAT (the latter is sort of, since it was 'inspired' by Tuesday Weld's character, and does not appear in the movie as such). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: I've read statements to that effect a few times over the past few days. Where does that come from? Just from the one photo where they met at the Musikverein (which seems rather inconclusive to me), or is there more? Yes, mainly that, and wasn't there a video of them hugging or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Fabulin said: Likewise, that's a new concerto. What about the other 90% of JW's repertoire? I have no idea. I just remembered that case, because I found it interesting that a major conductor had asked JW to write a harp concerto. Everything happened many years before the scandal, of course. 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: To get back on track, I have the impression that Riccardo Muti of the CSO and JW are mutual admirers. But has Muti ever performed JW in concert? I've never heard of Muti playing Williams. He did play and record some film music, by Rota and Prokofiev (Ivan the Terrible, although it was the oratorio arrangement by Stasevich), so he is definitely open-minded towards the genre. I think I would be thrilled to hear Muti conduct JW. He is a conductor who gives his best with operatic writing, and he might be suited to that kind of film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Yes, mainly that, and wasn't there a video of them hugging or something? That doesn't really say much about what Muti thinks of Williams' music - or in fact whether he even knew who he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Not hugging, just greeting: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Yeah, maybe it was just that the Musikverein wanted a photo with both, for the press! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, Thor said: Not hugging, just greeting: Yup, they're clearly BFFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 I always wondered about Bernstein. Some of Williams' works seem right up his alley. Maybe it's JW who didn't want to? I imagine him being very embarassed at the prospect of Lenny conducting his music. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 11 hours ago, Fabulin said: Leonard Bernstein (1918-1990) NO (for such a musical omnivore and a friend of Williams at the same time, this is just strange) Bernstein probably found JW's music to be too gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Bernstein probably found JW's music to be too gay. But Lenny was super gay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Bernstein was probably one of them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 One of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Levine did not record the Harp Concerto for commercial release. He only conducted the premiere and was replaced in the following performances by Daniele Gatti at the Carnegie Hall opening season concert of that year and by former BSO assistant conductor Shi-Yeon Sung. The later was the one released, digitally only, on BSO's own label (https://open.spotify.com/album/2SI8usquY1KZwBKnm4TzTc). Falstaft and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Fabulin said: Welser-Möst only did that because he was a replacement conductor when Ozawa fell ill. He wouldn't on his own accord. I understand Welser-Most has conducted Korngold in the past, though possibly not his film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said: Levine did not record the Harp Concerto for commercial release. So, is this a bootleg? http://mahawa.jw-music.net/classical/harp.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, Score said: So, is this a bootleg? http://mahawa.jw-music.net/classical/harp.htm Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 It even says CD-R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Score said: So, is this a bootleg? http://mahawa.jw-music.net/classical/harp.htm I would rather call it a private recording. The three concerts were broadcast on WCRB and I recorded all of them. Now, if I was trying to make a single euro out of it, then Thor would be right. As it is, I wouldn't call it a bootleg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 When we refer to conductors championing music, it usually refers to composers who are unknown, underappreciated, and not part of the repertory. . Ives and Bach Mahler come to mind. Does JW fit into that category? Btw Arrangeing film music for concerts ( usually conducted by the composer) is not equivalent to an original concert composition ( not talking about adapting part of a score into a full blown composition e.g. SCOTT OF THE ANTARCTIC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said: I would rather call it a private recording. The three concerts were broadcast on WCRB and I recorded all of them. Now, if I was trying to make a single euro out of it, then Thor would be right. As it is, I wouldn't call it a bootleg. Ah, I see. Then "bootleg" was a wrong word for it, sorry. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt S. 493 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/16/2020 at 3:02 AM, Steve said: Andris Nelsons conducted his music. A big name in the classical world. Undoubtedly because of the Boston connection. I know Nelsons conducted the first half of a Film Night concert at Tanglewood a few summers ago... he even performed the trumpet solo in "With Malice Toward None" from Lincoln! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 23 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said: I would rather call it a private recording. The three concerts were broadcast on WCRB and I recorded all of them. Now, if I was trying to make a single euro out of it, then Thor would be right. As it is, I wouldn't call it a bootleg. It's still a bootleg: Quote adjective (especially of liquor, computer software, or recordings) made, distributed, or sold illegally. noun an illegal musical recording, especially one made at a concert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Christoph von Dohnányi and Kurt Masur also conducted Williams pieces, premiering, respectively, the trumpet and bassoon concertos. ChrisAfonso and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/16/2020 at 1:59 PM, Thor said: I'm only familiar with Previn conducting the symphony, as previously mentioned. But he has PERFORMED John Williams film music as pianist, on this album: Not only the Symphony but also Essay for Strings, that he also premiered. By the way, other big name in the conducting world and a former LA Phil music director, Esa-Pekka Salonen has conducted Williams music, both film (excerpts from Star Wars) and concert hall music (violin concerto). Not sure if you would count Lawrence Foster as big name conductor, but he has conducted Williams music and even conducted the European premiere of his Cello Concerto. Carl St. Clair (of the Pacific Symphony) and Stefan Asbury (director of the TMC Orchestra) have also conducted both film and concert music by Williams. Again, not sure if you count them as big name conductors. Our own Joana Carneiro (former assistant to Salonen at the L.A. Philharmonic, music director of the Berkeley Symphony and one of Portugal's finest conductors) have conducted his film music on several ocasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 8/16/2020 at 3:25 PM, Muad'Dib said: Maybe it's JW who didn't want to? I imagine him being very embarassed at the prospect of Lenny conducting his music. It makes perfect sense. I can't imagine Bernstein would have refused to conduct Williams' music had Williams asked him. I've never seen a composer of this caliber who was so ashamed of the quality or worthiness of his own music, safe maybe for Brahms at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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