SPOILER TALK: TENET (2020, Christopher Nolan)

[publicist 4,643]

I am sure you know exactly what it means, as you have gotten that kind of feedback a lot over the years. Still, I know all of what you propose and don't see why this movie mandates respect. What for, exactly?

[Thor 7,493]

13 minutes ago, publicist said:

I am sure you know exactly what it means, as you have gotten that kind of feedback a lot over the years.

 

No, I don't, really. How interesting is it to read a review from someone bereft of preferences and ideologies? A dry, academic treatise is one thing, reviews is a different genre altogether. 

 

13 minutes ago, publicist said:

Still, I know all of what you propose and don't see why this movie mandates respect. What for, exactly?

 

Mostly the mise-en-scene in the action sequences. And his unusual decision to go over-the-top, in many ways creating the exact Nolan film Nolan critics have criticized him for over the years. I'm looking forward to hearing him speak about the film; quite curious about his motivations in this case.

 

[publicist 4,643]

52 minutes ago, Thor said:

No, I don't, really. How interesting is it to read a review from someone bereft of preferences and ideologies? A dry, academic treatise is one thing, reviews is a different genre altogether. 

 

That may be so, but no if the ideology takes center stage. And you#re a poster child. 

54 minutes ago, Thor said:

Mostly the mise-en-scene in the action sequences. And his unusual decision to go over-the-top, in many ways creating the exact Nolan film Nolan critics have criticized him for over the years. I'm looking forward to hearing him speak about the film; quite curious about his motivations in this case.

 

Sounds like Nolan's just being capricious, which is unfortunate when you spend 300 Mio $ and use many fine craftsmen for something that is a lark (and not a good one).

[Niktob 4]

Well, my son and I saw TENET last night... and LOVED it. I held off reading the comments in this thread until this morning. Not sure we saw the same movie! (haha).

 

Regarding characters... Neil and the Protagonist were great. Both were good at their job but had sly moments of humor as well. Both of their characters were "inverted." The Protagonist starts the film knowing very little and feeling out of his element. He ends ready to emerge as a leader among his group. Neil was insistent on the "it happened, move on" approach, but for his friend, bucked the plan, doubled back on himself and ultimately died for him.  Sator's wife had the clearest arc. She went from wavering in love for her son and to weak to kill her husband to being completely committed to both. It was also easy to feel sympathy for her situation. 

 

Story... excellent. The idea of inversion carrying over to the movie itself where halfway through or so, the character begin moving backward through the story was genius. The set up we saw earlier really paid off (in my opinion). The concept was great and I loved how Nolan hung a lantern on it as the one character responded to the question of how it worked with "Don't think too much about it." Understanding exactly how it worked would have taken some of the mystery/interest out of the stakes and spectacle.

 

Music... I enjoyed it. I was surprised how much it organically blended into the film. A few times I had to stop and think about whether I was hearing sound effects or the score. Before I give it two thumb sup, I would need to hear it on its own.  Göransson's work on The Mandoloarian series is uneven. At times, it is amazing and spot on with the story; other times it feels like mere background music. But that could also be due to the relative length and nature of a series vs a movie. 

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Seen it. Its fun, but more than a little bit confusing and certainly lacking in humanity.

 

It works early on when its just Washington and Pattison. When Elizabeth Debicki comes into the frame as a melancholy, estranged wife of the villain, it starts feeling hollow because we're clearly supposed to feel for her, and yet it took nearly the entire movie before I realized I didn't catch her character's name.

 

But then, I wasn't feeling the humanity in Inception, either, and that movie worked well enough just as spectacle, and in a way that's what's happening here, too. I would say this is certainly a lesser film by dint of being more laborious, but its still fun enough for the most part.

 

In spite of its size, I daresay its not Nolan's most impressive spectacle. His crashing of a 747 sounds impressive, but didn't come off that mind-blowing on film: it looked like the aircraft gently taxi-d into a building. The opening of The Dark Knight Rises did more in that regard.

 

So, basically its Inception with some of the tedium of Interstellar. To pick up on something @publicist said about this being akin to a Bond film (which it totally is), I'd rather rewatch Skyfall or Casino Royale sooner than this.

 

*** out of *****

[Thor 7,493]

47 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

So, basically its Inception with some of the tedium of Interstellar.

 

Tedium!?!? I find it to be his most riveting film. Seen it probably 7-8 times, and discover more every time. I wish TENET were a little more INTERSTELLAR-like.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Maybe tedium is a bit harsh, but I've always found Interstellar a bit too long and slow. The Dark Knight Rises (which I like a lot) also wasn't exactly terse.

 

But I will agree Interstellar had a heart that this film doesn't. It was also "long and slow" in a different way to this film: Tenet is actually pushing its plot forward quite rapidly (to the point of actually feeling choppy at times), it just has A LOT of plot and so it takes a long while and feels quite laborious. It doesn't do a film like this favours.

[Thor 7,493]

Yes, unlike his other movies, TENET does push everything but the kitchen sink into the forefront from the beginning, and then stays in fifth gear for the duration. That's one of the things I struggled with.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Yeah, its exhausting in that way. Inception had more breathing room.

 

But Tenet is still fun in its own way.

[Quintus 5,399]

 

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Interstellar had a heart that this film doesn't.

 

I'd call it "mawkishness" rather than "heart", and was glad that Nolan didn't try to imbue this film with the sort of sentimentality that mars the endings of Interstellar and Dunkirk.

 

5 hours ago, Niktob said:

I loved how Nolan hung a lantern on it as the one character responded to the question of how it worked with "Don't think too much about it." Understanding exactly how it worked would have taken some of the mystery/interest out of the stakes and spectacle.

 

The "Don't try to understand it; just feel it" advice didn't really work for me because I found it difficult even to get a reasonable feel for what was going on during the combat scenes. I think the film would have benefitted from more time spent exploring and illustrating various "inversion" phenomena in a calm setting and then deploying them in action scenes after the viewer has had a chance to develop a sense of how they work. I'd happily sacrifice some of the mystery if it also meant less bafflement and gave the scenes a chance to develop a greater sense of dynamism and excitement.

 

The running time flew in, though, and there wasn't a moment when I wasn't interested in what was going on. It felt like an eighty minute film.

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

I'd call it "mawkishness" rather than "heart", and was glad that Nolan didn't try to imbue this film with the sort of sentimentality that mars the endings of Interstellar and Dunkirk.

 

I like sentimentality in movies.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

I know. I like sentimentality in movies considerably less than you do...

[Niktob 4]

24 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

The "Don't try to understand it; just feel it" advice didn't really work for me because I found it difficult even to get a reasonable feel for what was going on during the combat scenes. I think the film would have benefitted from more time spent exploring and illustrating various "inversion" phenomena in a calm setting and then deploying them in action scenes after the viewer has had a chance to develop a sense of how they work. I'd happily sacrifice some of the mystery if it also meant less bafflement and gave the scenes a chance to develop a greater sense of dynamism and excitement.

 

I hear you. Maybe it's all of my other sci-fi viewing, but I connected immediately with the idea from the bullets and wall scene. It was also fun for me learning how the inversion worked alongside the Protagonist figuring it out as he completed his mission. 

 

24 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

The running time flew in, though, and there wasn't a moment when I wasn't interested in what was going on. It felt like an eighty minute film.

 

Agreed!

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

17 minutes ago, Niktob said:

...I connected immediately with the idea from the bullets and wall scene.

 

Yeah, the scene with the bullets was probably enough to establish the nature of interactions between a person and an object on opposite timelines. It's when you have two people, or groups of people, interacting on opposite timelines that it becomes difficult to comprehend (at least for someone who's not the sharpest tool in the box). I found myself constantly trying to imagine the scene playing out backwards, from the point of view of the inverted characters, to understand their motivations and state of knowledge at each instant. A couple of scenes showing two mutually inverted characters trying to carry out some basic task (one in cooperation with each other, say, and then another in opposition) could have helped smooth the way for the later scenes when the stakes are real.

[Niktob 4]

2 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

A couple of scenes showing two mutually inverted characters trying to carry out some basic task (one in cooperation with each other, say, and then another in opposition) could have helped smooth the way for the later scenes when the stakes are real.

 

I can see that.

[crocodile 8,000]

 

Karol

[Romão 2,274]

Well, I've just seen this.

 

The concept is kinda cool, but I do feel it would be much better served in a first person game kinda like Portal. Nolan does not really make the most of it. There's clearly potential for some incredible fun and even silly action sequences. But I found them frankly unimaginative. And that last sequence in the former Soviet town was just overkill, without anything to cling on to.

 

Pattinson does inject some color and flair to his performance, but all the other actors do serviceable, but unremarkable work, which is not helped one bit by the script.

 

This movie need to be smaller, more focused, milk the concept for its fun prospects (a bit like Edge of Tomorrow...I can only imagine what is it like to go the bathroom when you're inverted), bring more imagination to the action sequences, which such great potential with that silly, yet promising concept.

 

The first hour actually felt a bit like Rise of Skywalker. Go to point A to fetch thing, which leads to point B where you fetch another thing...like the whole Mumbai sequence. They couldn't just talk with a character, they had to go through a totally gratuitous action sequence to get there. Same thing goes for the airplane crash.

 

Nolan needs to get back to smaller projects. And his final action sequences really are getting quite boring to me. Even Inception, which I enjoyed far more than this one, had that never ending sky chase on the snowy slopes.

 

The score was unremarkable. And honestly, visually, for all its scope, it did feel a bit bland.

[Chen G. 3,949]

9 hours ago, Romão said:

The first hour actually felt a bit like Rise of Skywalker. Go to point A to fetch thing, which leads to point B where you fetch another thing...like the whole Mumbai sequence.

 

Yeah, I get what you mean. There are two ways in which a film can be long and tedious: one is not having enough plot and stretching it out too much. The other is having too much plot and constantly moving it. Tenet is clearly in the latter category. Its nowhere near JJ Abrams' pace by way of freneticism, but still.

 

9 hours ago, Romão said:

Same thing goes for the airplane crash.

 

which honestly isn't that impressive. It comes across like they gently taxi-d the plane into a building, rather than some high-speed crash that you'd expect anyone bothering with this would do.

[KK 3,307]

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

which honestly isn't that impressive. It comes across like they gently taxi-d the plane into a building, rather than some high-speed crash that you'd expect anyone bothering with this would do.

 

I felt the same way but have been accosted for such sacrilegious talk from the Nolanites. Apparently it's one of the best sequences ever shot...

 

The problem with it it is that there isn't much choreography to it, unlike Nolan's best (think TDKR opening). And I guess some of that comes to play in the inverted reprise of it, which must have been impressive enough to shoot, but visually still doesn't ring very well.

 

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yeah, I get what you mean. There are two ways in which a film can be long and tedious: one is not having enough plot and stretching it out too much. The other is having too much plot and constantly moving it. Tenet is clearly in the latter category. Its nowhere near JJ Abrams' pace by way of freneticism, but still.

 

Lol the way it jumped from the Mumbai sequence, to the painting theft to plutonium talk...I was like "are we still looking into those magical inverted bullets?".

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

A Tenet-inspired pornographic film could explore some interesting configurations.

 

(Not that I mean to lower the tone or anything...)

[KK 3,307]

Oh, I’m pretty sure he’s saving all that that for his Eyes Wide Shut remake.

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 hour ago, KK said:

I felt the same way but have been accosted for such sacrilegious talk from the Nolanites. Apparently it's one of the best sequences ever shot...

 

The problem with it it is that there isn't much choreography to it, unlike Nolan's best (think TDKR opening).

 

Yeah, since it also involved aircraft, my mind immediately shot to the opening of The Dark Knight Rises. Leaps and bounds better as spectacle.

 

Maybe its my fondness of motorsports, but to me the most exciting action setpiece in the film was the inverted car ride, although its hardly the first time I've seen a car racing in reverse in an action movie. Something about the simplicity of it compared to, say, the raid at the end (the fuck was that about?) was more exciting somehow.

 

Still, there was definitely some fun to be had with the movie.

[crocodile 8,000]

I visited one of my old friends in London today for a quick (safe) catch-up and managed to catch a screening at BFI IMAX. Not sure what possessed me, to be honest. Probably the fact it's so rare to watch a movie projected and especially these days, where 4K streaming at home is norm, it is indeed the only type of cinema experience that actually has "wow" factor.

 

So how does it differ? Yes, the experience is better on a purely visceral level and you can appreciate the lavish production values. As far as these go, it's worth seeing on a massive screen possible. You can definitely see where money went which is not always the case with blockbusters like this. 

 

But...

 

It was once again a very empty and emotionless experience. Sure, it looks great and actors work hard to make us care (especially Pattinson and Debicki) but it's all for nothing. Similarly to what happened during my first experience my brain just gave up. I could appreciate the craftsmanship and pretty IMAX shots but couldn't care less about characters or story. Not that I could make out any of the dialogue with a mix like this.

 

I won't be attempting it again.

 

Karol 

 

[Edmilson 7,434]

Now that COVID is killing just 400 people per day here rather than 1,000, theaters re-opened and I had the chance to catch it.

 

I thought the movie was okay. The high concept about the inversions are interesting, but the film gets more confusing and inescrutable as it goes on. By the end of the film I just stopped caring about the plot and the final twists.

 

The action scenes certainly look great in IMAX, but Nolan's confusing script makes hard to understand what exactly is happening.

 

Gorannsson's score is a mix of Dark Phoenix, Dunkirk and Inception, but is rather annoying in places. I'm curious to see what Zimmer would do with this same material.

[Wojo 2,453]

8 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Now that COVID is killing just 400 people per day here rather than 1,000, theaters re-opened and I had the chance to catch it.

 

The chance to catch the film or the COVID? Seems we always have the chance to catch the COVID. 

[Edmilson 7,434]

11 minutes ago, who cares said:

The chance to catch the film or the COVID? Seems we always have the chance to catch the COVID. 

 

To catch the film, of course. If I wanted to get COVID I would've gone to a bar or a restaurant or something.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

This movie sucked.

[Jay 37,346]

Apparently this film is so confusing someone had to make a 3d rendered video to explain it?

 

 

[Edmilson 7,434]

This video explains pretty well why this movie is crap:

 

 

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

This movie was such a huge piece of shit.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

What I retain from this movie:

- the most complicated boring story for nothing

- the most ridiculous use of money in an action scene for nothing since Spectre (Tenet's plane scene)

- the most atrocious sounds editing since Venom

- the most insipid score since the same movie of the same composer (coincidence??)

[LSH 968]

It was so mind-numbing, I'd forgotten about it until this thread bumped. Cheers.

 

I hated every second of it. And I'm generally a big fan of Nolan.

[crocodile 8,000]

Bang on. 😄

 

 

Karol

[bruce marshall 1,315]

I just requested this DVD from my library.

You know a film is probably sucky when a NEW movie has copies "available to check out!"

😗

[A24 4,331]

Nolan is probably trying to figure how to compensate for the negative reception with his next movie. A return to his Batman universe? Or another Leo DiCaprio movie? Whatever it is, it has to be some kind of obvious fan pleaser.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

People really hate this film.

My expectations are so low I doubt I'll be that upset.

I doubt NOLAN will base his future films on one big disappointment.

But, this fan will be happy if he gets away from his convoluted " puzzle pictures".

 

"the most insipid score since the same movie of the same composer.."

 

What film and composer?

[A24 4,331]

 

 

No! Two disappointments. Two!

[bruce marshall 1,315]

From what I gather you don't need to put " SPOILER ALERT"  for this film , as no one knows what the hell the plot is about!😅

[A24 4,331]

See, there's no way that the average Joe (screw the new rules!) has been fully satisfied by the experiment called Dunkirk. And, from what I've noticed, the same average Joe has been disappointed by Tenet as well. That's two disappointments in a row. So, yes, I think Nolan is feverishly trying to figure out how he can become the darling of the audiences again. A fourth Batman movie will be too easy but calling his friend Leo might be an option.

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,055]

20 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

From what I gather you don't need to put " SPOILER ALERT"  for this film , as no one knows what the hell the plot is about!😅

 

Maybe someday, someone will figure it out.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

17 minutes ago, AC1 said:

See, there's no way that the average Joe (screw the new rules!) has been fully satisfied by the experiment called Dunkirk. And, from what I've noticed, the same average Joe has been disappointed by Tenet as well. That's two disappointments in a row. So, yes, I think Nolan is feverishly trying to figure out how he can become the darling of the audiences again. A fourth Batman movie will be too easy but calling his friend Leo might be an option.

 

 

DUNKIRK is very well liked by audiences - who DONT belong to JWFAN.

Every review and everyone I talked to, admire it.

 

It also performed very respectably at the box office.

So,. No. Not a disappointment.

You may be confusing it with the lame INTERSTELLAR- another " puzzle picture"

16 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Maybe someday, someone will figure it out.

First: INCEPTION

Next: WESTWORLD s.2

Then: INTERSTELLAR

 

Nobody cares what TENET is about!😝

 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

54 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

"the most insipid score since the same movie of the same composer.."

 

What film and composer?

Göransson and Venom probably

[A24 4,331]

35 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

DUNKIRK is very well liked by audiences - who DONT belong to JWFAN.

Every review and everyone I talked to, admire it.

 

It also did very respecatably at the box office.

So,. No. Not a disappointment.

 

 I know you love to be a contrarian, Bruce. However, if you read movie forums, you'll know that what I'm saying is true. I'm not saying the world hated it but many fans were disappointed (with a lack of likeable characters as a main gripe). You may see it as one of his universally loved movies (TDK, Interstellar, Inception) but you would only be lying to yourself. It is certainly a mistake to claim that only JWfFaners were disappointed, as if we don't represent the real world.

 

That's right! Two disappointments in a row. Two!

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Nah!.

Only the Nolan/Zimmer haters didn't like it.

Best film of the decade.

A cinematic masterpiece.

Nuff said!

[A24 4,331]

Nope. Almost every reaction starts with "I love Nolan but ..."

[bruce marshall 1,315]

1 minute ago, AC1 said:

Nope. Almost every reaction starts with "I love Nolan but ..."

....I only like super hero movies.

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 hours ago, AC1 said:

many fans were disappointed (with a lack of likeable characters as a main gripe). You may see it as one of his universally loved movies (TDK, Interstellar, Inception) but you would only be lying to yourself.

 

I don't disagree with your main point, but as far as likeable characters go, do any of us really like Cobb from Inception? Sure, I remember his name which is more than could be said for the characters in Tenet, but I'd be lying if I said I really cared...

 

To my mind, Tenet is a more antiseptic, overly-complicated version of Inception. Both movies work for me really only as spectacle. What Inception has going for it that Tent doesn't, is that one can actually follow the plot.

 

Both are fine spectacle, though.

[A24 4,331]

14 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I don't disagree with your main point, but as far as likeable characters go, do any of us really like Cobb from Inception? Sure, I remember his name which is more than could be said for the characters in Tenet, but I'd be lying if I said I really cared...

 

 

I guess that's how people describe a movie which narrative isn't seen through the eyes of a main character (which is how most movies work).

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

I really don't see where there is spectacle in Tenet. Nolan did found how to reverse a sequence now that's good for him but that doesn't make a movie.

Now the most spectacular scene of the movie is certainly the plane one but not because it's spectacular to see a plane crash a hangar, more because it's spectacular to spend so much money for a useless scene

 

About the plot I will just say that making a movie just to lose the audience isn't that hard, you just have not to explain them your story, Nolan learns that...