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SPOILER TALK: TENET (2020, Christopher Nolan)


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4 minutes ago, May the Force be with You said:

Now the most spectacular scene of the movie is certainly the plane one

Disagree. The best action setpiece is easily the reverse chase scene.

The plane was a huge disappointment: it looked as though a 747 gently taxi-ed into a wall. Meh. So much for "doing things for real."

Movie's still mildly fun, though...

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Bang on. 馃槃 聽 聽 Karol

Inception聽gets all the points over聽Tenet聽by virtue of actually feeling cinematic. Like it or not, it understood how to communicate memorable聽images and set-pieces within the heist genre it operates in

8 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Disagree. The best action setpiece is easily the reverse chase scene.

Disagree聽;)

The best action setpiece is easily the big two way battle at the end. I remember very much enjoying the pure chaos of it.聽

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3 minutes ago, eitam said:

The best action setpiece is easily the big two way battle at the end. I remember very much enjoying the pure chaos of it.聽

That one was a big blur for me. I need to see the movie again (something I have no particular desire to do) to really make up my mind.

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51 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The plane was a huge disappointment: it looked as though a 747 gently taxi-ed into a wall. Meh. So much for "doing things for real."

It's what I said. Most spectacular waste of money... ;)

Personally the best scene for me was the opening, then I would say the truck heist for it Mission Impossible look

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It would have looked like an ordinary disaster movie if the crash was accompanied with big explosions. Remember, Nolan's movies are classy.聽;)

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11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The climax of the movie was one of the most boring and confusing聽action scene聽I've ever seen in a major movie. Yeah, the car chase was visually impressive, but at that point I already stopped caring about the plot and the characters.

I stop carrying about the movie just after the talk with Cl茅mence Po茅sy...

The rest of the movie is just action scenes without any stake nor real visual interest

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5 hours ago, Mephariel said:

behind masterpieces like The Dark Knight and Inception.聽

See, this I don't get.

Dark Knight - fine. But Inception? a masterpiece? I mean, I like it a lot but essentially its the very same kind of thing as Tenet: a big spectacle with unengaging characters. The only advantages Inception has over Tenet is that you can follow the plot and remember the characters' names. But otherwise its very much the same schtick.

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We rewatched Inception last year as well, both of our first times seeing it since it came out a decade prior.聽 We both enjoyed it still as well.聽 It's not perfect, but it's fun.


I still haven't' seen Tenet.

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For me, it's the other way around. I really hated Inception (on every occasion) but kind of聽enjoyed Tenet for what it was. The problem is that one movie annoyed the hell out of me,聽while the other one ... well, didn't.聽 I feel that, in Inception, the story is still very much told from the characters' point of view, but,聽I truly disliked聽the characters and the whole tone that they gave to the movie. OTOH, in聽Tenet, we are聽almost dealing with colourless,聽indistinct non-characters,聽akin to the ones in Dunkirk,聽which shifted the POV more towards the narrator (Nolan), which somehow gave it more neutral tone with very little cause for irritation.聽

I bet you never heard an explanation like this!

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On 5/7/2021 at 3:09 AM, Chen G. said:

See, this I don't get.

Dark Knight - fine. But Inception? a masterpiece? I mean, I like it a lot but essentially its the very same kind of thing as Tenet: a big spectacle with unengaging characters. The only advantages Inception has over Tenet is that you can follow the plot and remember the characters' names. But otherwise its very much the same schtick.

Inception is a much more intimate story. It is not about WWIII. It is not about arms dealer or anonymous protagonists. It is a heist movie about a bunch of people trying to pull off the impossible revolving around the concept of time, love, lost, and family. The final scene with DiCaprio holding the kids and the spinning top has more meaning than the entire Tenet movie.聽聽

21 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

INCEPTION was.not only confusing but boring.

I didn't even think the score was exceptional!

But, it was a huge hit.

Go figger馃槼馃槜

Because it combines summer spectacle with cleverness of a indie film. It is a film that you have no idea what is going to happen next and how it is going to end. And even after it is over, people still debate about the ending. It is an聽absolutely masterpiece with an original and unique concept that translated to great execution.聽Tenet on the other end also has a great concept but far less successful with the execution.聽But then I also think Interstellar is a great film, and most people think that as well based on IMDB ratings, but it is extremely polarizing here.

Sort of sideways to this discussion, over the years, I learned that film music fans have this weird obsession with movies that has a lot of spectacle and聽doesn't take itself seriously (although Tenet takes itself very seriously). Maybe because those movies have orchestral scores that they like. I remember arguing on FSM forum on who should be directing Dune and a bunch of people think Roland Emmerich is the right guy. Like seriously, that guy has one good film: Independence Day, and聽that aged terribly. Emmerich is a bush league director. And yet, I live in a world where Inception is a bad film, and Villeneuve is too self-indulgent, and Emmerich is some great director. I bet a bunch of people here also think Batman & Robin is a much better film than The Dark Knight because it is more fun.聽Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and there is nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion. But I noticed that a lot of times, campy spectacle movies get defended a lot with film music fans. Just a side note.

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1 hour ago, Mephariel said:

Inception is a much more intimate story. It is not about WWIII. It is not about arms dealer or anonymous protagonists. It is a heist movie about a bunch of people trying to pull off the impossible revolving around the concept of time, love, lost, and family.

That it is. But the characters aren't terribly engaging.

Like, how many people here really care about Cobb? I sure didn't; not really, anyways. And, in that way its a similar situation to the characters in Tenet. The main difference is that I remembered the characters in Inception.

1 hour ago, Mephariel said:

it combines summer spectacle with cleverness of a indie film. It is a film that you have no idea what is going to happen next and how it is going to end. And even after it is over, people still debate about the ending. It is an聽absolutely masterpiece with an original and unique concept that translated to great execution.聽

To me, real cleverness in a film is in complex characters or complex themes, not in complicated plot mechanics, which is all Inception really has. The same with Tenet: its extraordinarily complex, but only insofar as the mechanics of the plot are complicated.

I don't even think Inception is THAT complicated. Its really not too far removed from any other film that intercuts four or five storylines around the point of the climax, and lord knows we've seen plenty of blockbusters (too many, really) that do this. Hell, look at The Dark Knight Rises!

I don't want to sound like I hate Inception: far from it; but lets not put it on a pedestal when its so much like Tenet, just easier to follow.

1 hour ago, Mephariel said:

over the years, I learned that film music fans have this weird obsession with movies that has a lot of spectacle and聽doesn't take itself seriously

That seems to be an annoying trend, yes. I suppose some people will always lean towards the frivolous.

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39 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

That it is. But the characters aren't terribly engaging.

Like, how many people here really care about Cobb? I sure didn't; not really, anyways. And, in that way its a similar situation to the characters in Tenet. The main difference is that I remembered the characters in Inception.

To me, real cleverness in a film is in complex characters or complex themes, not in complicated plot mechanics, which is all Inception really has. The same with Tenet: its extraordinarily complex, but only insofar as the mechanics of the plot are complicated.

I don't even think Inception is THAT complicated. Its really not too far removed from any other film that intercuts four or five storylines around the point of the climax, and lord knows we've seen plenty of blockbusters (too many, really) that do this. Hell, look at The Dark Knight Rises!

I don't want to sound like I hate Inception: far from it; but lets not put it on a pedestal when its so much like Tenet, just easier to follow.

That seems to be an annoying trend, yes. I suppose some people will always lean towards the frivolous.

I disagree. Inception has so many quirks that makes it a special film. It is a film about dreams, but if I am to make a film about dreams, I wouldn't have come up with that story or all those elements. Taking the idea of shared dreams then add the idea of having dreams within a dream. Using a "kick" to wait people up, and the limbo world for the dead.聽Creating the idea of the spinning top, and聽totems for each character. Having one dream world affecting the physics of the聽other (elevator fight vs van falling over the bridge). The exploration of the聽logic and聽difficulty聽of implanting an idea into someone's mind. The interesting make up of the team, having a forger, a world builder, etc. Finally, the counterpoint of聽having Cobb being tormented by his dead wife that could jeopardize the mission, which leads to the central聽themes of time, love, obsession, letting go.聽

I saw many blockbusters in my life, but never one about dreams, and certainly not one that is as unique as Inception.聽

Tenet on the other hand has the same great concept, but just lacks the finesse in storytelling and the execution聽to make it truly special. You can reverse time by reversing聽entropy. That is a great! So what do you do with that. How about inversing a car chase? How about inversing a gun shot. How about having a fight scene inverted? Those ideas are just too...flat and predictable. Like I can come up with that. The only truly special idea was really seeing the temporal pincer formation in action. Everything else in the world building are things you seen before. The Russian arms dealer, the abused wife, the slightly cool/funny partner, secret organizations, and even just time travel in general. Plus, the protagonist has no motivation other than he has to stop evil (with some half-hearted hints of feeling sorry for the wife). It is a good bad guy vs good guy聽film that has an extra kick to it with the inversion concept and some truly spectacular actions sequences. But the film just never felt as brilliant or intimate as Inception.聽

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55 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

聽don't want to sound like I hate Inception: far from it; but lets not put it on a pedestal when its so much like Tenet, just easier to follow.I

You forget to say that it was also visually far less interresting. There's no scene in Tenet that are as great as the dream discovery.


About the character I have to say that I succeed to connect a lot with Cobb because compare to the protagonist he has a goal worth interresting which is to reconnect with his children and to grieve. The other characters instead of making me care about them, have really good interrections based on their differences which is also missing in Tenet.


I will add that in Inception we have a good score well presented unlike Tenet which sounds awfully noisy and irritating.

Inception>>>Tenet

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14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The same with Tenet: its extraordinarily complex, but only insofar as the mechanics of the plot are complicated.

Nope, it's complex insofar as the basic construct that also makes the plot quite complicated, offers a wonderful field of reflection about time, cognition and human options of action. Why does it always have to be either plot or characters that matter?

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6 hours ago, KK said:

Inception聽gets all the points over聽Tenet聽by virtue of actually feeling cinematic. Like it or not, it understood how to communicate memorable聽images and set-pieces within the heist genre it operates in, and it does it well.

Tenet聽gets so lost up the ass of its own puzzle that it forgets to be a movie.

I don't for a moment dispute that Inception is a better film than Tenet. It is.

I think I disagree to the extent to which its better. For me, Tenet was fun in a way not too dissimilar to Inception, just much, much harder to follow and generally not as effective. But still mildly fun.

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