Josh500 1,615 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 And why!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,336 Posted August 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2020 The Chamber of Secrets AINEC Fawkes is a great theme, and the concert arrangement is fine, nothing wrong with it, but I like the way the theme is integrated into film cues more than this particular arrangement, which gets a bit more flighty then the film ever called for. That's interesting, but not my cup of tea necessarily. Dobby The House Elf is a perfectly fine theme for the character, and works well in the film, but the concert arrangement doesn't really take it in any new places or say much about the character that the film cues don't. The Chamber theme is wonderful, a great new addition to the series' bed of themes. The way the theme is worked into various cues are among my absolute favorite parts of the score, and to this day I will never understand why JW didn't include those cues on the OST album. The concert arrangement is also just aces. Takes the small theme and explodes it into grandiose proportions in a really cool way. I love it. Madmartigan JC, artguy360, Manakin Skywalker and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,514 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 I love all 3. My preferred listening order is Dobby-Chamber-Fawkes. Chamber gets the top mark though. Josh500 and 12-Mile Reef 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jay said: The Chamber of Secrets AINEC Fawkes is a great theme, and the concert arrangement is fine, nothing wrong with it, but I like the way the theme is integrated into film cues more than this particular arrangement, which gets a bit more flighty then the film ever called for. That's interesting, but not my cup of tea necessarily. Dobby The House Elf is a perfectly fine theme for the character, and works well in the film, but the concert arrangement doesn't really take it in any new places or say much about the character that the film cues don't. The Chamber theme is wonderful, a great new addition to the series' bed of themes. The way the theme is worked into various cues are among my absolute favorite parts of the score, and to this day I will never understand why JW didn't include those cues on the OST album. The concert arrangement is also just aces. Takes the small theme and explodes it into grandiose proportions in a really cool way. I love it. Great! Thanks for the thorough and insightful answer. As for me, I find all 3 concert pieces stunningly beautiful, listenable, and well-written! I'm talking about these pieces in their own right, not necessarily the individual themes as integrated in the film. Each in their own way, they grab you, hold your attention, and mesmerise you. But I chose "The Chamber of the Secrets" too. Arguably the most powerful and electrifying of the bunch, with "Fawkes the Phoenix" being a close second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem 152 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay said: The Chamber of Secrets AINEC Fawkes is a great theme, and the concert arrangement is fine, nothing wrong with it, but I like the way the theme is integrated into film cues more than this particular arrangement, which gets a bit more flighty then the film ever called for. That's interesting, but not my cup of tea necessarily. Dobby The House Elf is a perfectly fine theme for the character, and works well in the film, but the concert arrangement doesn't really take it in any new places or say much about the character that the film cues don't. The Chamber theme is wonderful, a great new addition to the series' bed of themes. The way the theme is worked into various cues are among my absolute favorite parts of the score, and to this day I will never understand why JW didn't include those cues on the OST album. The concert arrangement is also just aces. Takes the small theme and explodes it into grandiose proportions in a really cool way. I love it. I basically agree with this. The Chamber theme is much better used and explored in the concert version than in the film cues. It's a shame Williams didn't have the chance to use the theme to its full potential in the movie (basically, by removing all the quotes of the Stone's theme and substituting them with the Chamber theme). And I agree about Fawke's theme as well: its use during the film is really excellent, and the interludes of the concert version aren't my favourites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 I've always found the Chambers theme to be rather mediocre, but it's saved by a very good concert arrangement. However, I prefer the concert arrangement of the Fawkes theme. And I don't care an iota if it's more flighty than the film calls for, since concert arrangements are meant to stand on their own. Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 I've always felt the Fawkes theme was one of the most beautiful things written by Williams. Dude was really on fire churning out beautiful pieces that year. Also, the Lockhart music doesn't count as a concert piece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 It isn't a concert arrangement. It's 2M10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,514 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said: Also, the Lockhart music doesn't count as a concert piece? No, that's a proper film score cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 What Jay said, basically. Except that the LSO concert made me appreciate Fawkes, as a theme, more as a full concert version. I like the arrangements it gets in the film, but more for their colours and not so much for the theme itself. The Chamber of Secrets has a wonderful dark atmosphere that always reminds be a bit of The Fury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,275 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Love all three and they were a big part of my early JWFandom. HP2 was the first soundtrack I can remember really anticipating and it didn't let me down. I have a lot of fond memories being transported by this soundtrack. Fawkes remains the biggest comfort listen for me and so that's my vote but they do just go in that category with me where any attempt at objectivity becomes kinda pointless. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,403 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Fawkes the Phoenix Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Hey, I and Steve actually agree on something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 What is CoS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_the_Chamber_of_Secrets_(film) Josh500 and Bespin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,650 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 The Chamber of Secrets--completely underused in the film itself, but as a concert piece, topnotch. I really like Fawkes as well, but I would have preferred a bigger ending than the piece provides. In terms of other pieces, Spiders has always grabbed me as a set piece. I wish Williams had spun a concert piece from it. artguy360 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 This one is too hard, because I really love the three of them equally. Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I say this poll is rigged. Gilderoy Lockhart is a perfectly legitimate concert arrangement. There are some rare cases when a cue works as a concert arrangement. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,403 Posted August 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 26, 2020 'Gilderoy Lockhart' reminds me of 'No Ticket' every damn time. artguy360, Remco and Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,117 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Fawkes the Phoenix just soars. The composition is stunning with the ascending strings like the wings of a bird going higher. The syncopated double bass is so rhythmic and unexpected, but it gets me every time. Admittedly, its "magical" middle section is its weakness. But it's John doing what he does best with the tone of nobility and humanity. Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Fawkes theme reminds me so much of Yoda's theme in so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I love all three in their own unique way and it came down to a difficult choice between Fawkes and the Chamber. The pure magic of Fawkes' theme is why I chose that arrangement for this poll, however the grandeur of the Chamber piece builds and builds and it has that amazing bridge section that always gets me PUMPED! I like the the progression of Dobby's theme as it seesaws back and forth in a whimsical way. Josh500 and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 12 hours ago, SilverTrumpet said: Also, the Lockhart music doesn't count as a concert piece? Few people know this, but that's actually the concert piece of No Ticket. 55 minutes ago, Arpy said: I like the the progression of Dobby's theme as it seesaws back and forth in a whimsical way. "Dobby's Theme" is seriously one of the most cheerful, charming, and feel-good pieces written by Williams. Invariably makes me smile. Too bad it was underused in the movie. 8 hours ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said: This one is too hard, because I really love the three of them equally. Yes. Indeed. 6 hours ago, Drew said: I say this poll is rigged. Gilderoy Lockhart is a perfectly legitimate concert arrangement. There are some rare cases when a cue works as a concert arrangement. And if that had been included in the poll, you'd have voted for that?! WilliamsStarShip2282 and SilverTrumpet 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Sometimes I listen to the Chamber of Secrets concert arrangement and think to myself: "If JW ever wrote a Batman theme, it might sound something like this." It's dark, moody, mysterious, but also loud and campy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 4 hours ago, artguy360 said: Sometimes I listen to the Chamber of Secrets concert arrangement and think to myself: "If JW ever wrote a Batman theme, it might sound something like this." It's dark, moody, mysterious, but also loud and campy. Yeah, the mood is indeed similar. Especially Danny Elfman's original theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,650 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 12 hours ago, Bellosh said: 'Gilderoy Lockhart' reminds me of 'No Ticket' every damn time. I usually am loathe to accuse Williams of self-plagiarism, but this is a clear cut and paste job. In his defense, I think he wanted to a small throwaway piece to have a more central role in a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 44 minutes ago, Tom said: I usually am loathe to accuse Williams of self-plagiarism, but this is a clear cut and paste job. In his defense, I think he wanted to a small throwaway piece to have a more central role in a score. Plagiarism is a bit harsh, and also unfitting a term. He used the same idea twice. So? He came up with it. He can use it as often as he likes, if he sees fit to do so! Andy and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I don't like the word self-plagiarism. How can one steal from oneself? It is not theft. At worst it is a lack of creativity, in favor of easy workmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 It is theft if he wrote it for another customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I like to think the ideas still belong to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 20 hours ago, SilverTrumpet said: Also, the Lockhart music doesn't count as a concert piece? I don't think Keith Lockhart has recorded any music from CoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 27 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I don't think Keith Lockhart has recorded any music from CoS. He was actually the man behind William Ross. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I was gonna say Fawkes, but then realised I've never liked that completely unnecessary material totally unrelated to the story, so, Chamber of Secrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Having played these, I find Chamber to be the most musically interesting. Those runs are really fun, and very difficult on a saxophone. I like all three suites a lot. They share a lot of similarities with the Prequel material: Fawkes has a similar structure to the Love Theme from Attack of the Clones, only shorter, Chamber of Secrets is an obvious precursor to Battle of the Heroes, Dobby is basically Yoda filtered through Jar Jar Binks. The original album is a great listen, although I think anyone would enjoy more Chamber material, and that is the other reason I chose it. Chamber has always sounded like Williams a la Menken, due to the similarities to BatB. I don't find that a problem at all. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,117 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Chamber of Secrets is the concert piece that General Grievous should've had. Can anyone provide links to concert performances on YouTube or the like of some of these? I'm only familiar with what's on the album, and would like to hear other interpretations if you think they're of value or different enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I've been to live concerts where these were performed and they were never any different from the album versions Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 All three are equally well crafted, but the one I find most interesting is Dobby the House Elf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 The unreleased Dobby material was the main draw of the expansion for me. In the case of Chamber, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 8 hours ago, blondheim said: They share a lot of similarities with the Prequel material: Fawkes has a similar structure to the Love Theme from Attack of the Clones, only shorter, Chamber of Secrets is an obvious precursor to Battle of the Heroes Completely disagree, Battle of the Heroes is a different beast altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 They both start soft, the themes both have nine-note phrases that bounce down-up-and land as the end three notes, the placement of the bridge section, the pulsing brass accompaniment, likewise the racing strings, the soft fade and then loud Death Star crashes that end the thing. Also, I said precursor, I don't believe they are identical, just constructed along similar lines. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Gilderoy Lockhart is a concert suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 It's the film cue 2M10 Gilderoy Lockhart and was written to sync to on-screen action, and is used in the film as such. Nobody ever said it also wasn't also later published as a concert piece and performed in concerts. That happens all the time. "Star Wars Main Theme" is just 1M2 Main Title crossfaded into 12M2 End Titles on the OST album - that edit got published as a concert piece "Theme from Superman" is just 1M1 Main Title crossfaded into End Title on the OST album - that edit got published for performance too. "Theme From Schindler's List" is just 20M3 Placing The Stones from the film score etc Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Well, it could have been written as a concert piece and then used in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now