Expansion fans: Do you listen 'from start to finish' or 'piecemeal'?

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Scores that justify two CDs:

ALIEN

SUPERMAN

STAR WARS

THIN RED LINE

[blondheim 1,157]

I would just prefer it ends as it is supposed to end. I wouldn't care if they kept the score to two discs and the bonus tracks to a third. I understand the practical reasons for not doing it. I am most worried about the ends of these discs. I can get up to switch discs but I want to know that it is going to end definitively where it should and then let the silence stand. The alternates are always either after the film presentation or after the remastered OST. I don't like either really. In an ideal world, all of those things would get their own discs. 1 or 2 for an album-like score presentation, 1 for alternates and bonus tracks of any kind, and 1 for the OST. However we do not live in that world.

 

There are scores and presentations I have grown to deal with for the quality of their scores, like the LLL's Star Trek Motion Picture or Intrada's Conan. Although, I would love to have had them just use the Mako prologue at the beginning of disc three and not repeat Anvil of Crom. It seems totally nonsensical to end with a spoken introduction. Alas, what can you do. Still hands down the best way to grab that score. Although I do listen to the OST assembly the most.

[Bellosh 3,369]

2 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Scores that justify two CDs:

ALIEN

SUPERMAN

STAR WARS

THIN RED LINE

 

But again, that's just your opinion maan.

 

For every film you name, someone else can name one they want complete/more than 1 cd.

 

And if LLL, Intrada and other companies can provide this, it's ultimately better for everyone.

 

Only film score fans would get in their own way on this issue! 

[blondheim 1,157]

I don't believe every score is good enough for expansion but I would never begrudge someone that. Go nuts.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

I can only answer for myself, but there have been expanded scores that I might have purchased had they been limited to a single disc, (esp. If I already owned the ost.).

APOLLO 13, DOLORES CLAIBORNE are two recent examples.

 

Cost definitely is a consideration.

[blondheim 1,157]

6 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Scores that justify two CDs:

ALIEN

SUPERMAN

STAR WARS

THIN RED LINE

 

 I weirdly prefer the OST assembly in every one of these cases, except Superman's where I find I listen to Debney's recording the most.

 

Though if there were a decent Star Wars expansion, I would also listen to it, I am sure.

[Andy 4,071]

It definitely has a lot to do with being a collector... the gotta have it all mentality, to which I will certainly admit guilt.

 

But it also is being delighted with something you hear in a moment of film, and the frustration of exclusion on the soundtrack release.

[Bellosh 3,369]

5 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I can only answer for myself, but there have been expanded scores that I might have purchased had they been limited to a single disc, (esp. If I already owned the ost.).

APOLLO 13, DOLORES CLAIBORNE are two recent examples.

 

Cost definitely is a consideration.

 

I agree and understand all of that.

 

I just truly believe there are some really awesome cues that get snubbed, and to not have them sucks some times.  It doesn't negate what I think of a score already, but it shouldn't be looked at as if we are some crazy collector that needs everything.

 

If the price is right + enough people want it, and there are companies that expand, then have at it!

 

If I was the ONLY one in the world who wanted these C&C albums, I'd cope, believe me.  

[Thor 7,452]

Let's get back on track again, shall we?

 

"It varies, but most often start-to-finish" leads so far with 11 votes, and 'start-to-finish' also leads among the 'always'es.  That's kinda fascinating. One would think it requires some logistics to get that together in one's everyday life, especially for 2CD and 3CD sets. Takes up a considerable chunk of the alloted music listening time, so to speak.

 

It has also been interesting to read some of the replies from the other approach that have a more, shall we say, 'interactive' approach to the material - picking, choosing, listening in bulks, making playlists, suites etc.

 

I was hoping to read more stuff like that, and less about the ol' A&A (arranged & abbreviated) vs. C&C debate in this particular thread.

[Holko 9,491]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

One would think it requires some logistics to get that together in one's everyday life, especially for 2CD and 3CD sets. Takes up a considerable chunk of the alloted music listening time, so to speak.

You love it, you make time for it.

[Bellosh 3,369]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

Let's get back on track again, shall we?

 

I mean calling us 'Expansion Fans' is just...you're asking for a dialogue is all I'm saying.

 

I'm a film score fan, and happen to just want the music that I hear in the film.  Expansion doesn't have anything to do with it.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

4 minutes ago, blondheim said:

 

 I weirdly prefer the OST assembly in every one of these cases, except Superman's where I find I listen to Debney's recording the most.

 

Though if there were a decent Star Wars expansion, I would also listen to it, I am sure.

Not weird at all. They are all excellent presentations.

A great ost doesn't obviate an expansion !

[Andy 4,071]

16 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Scores that justify two CDs:

ALIEN

SUPERMAN

STAR WARS

THIN RED LINE

 

Looking at your list, where the heck is

 

INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM

RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK

JAWS

CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND

 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

8 minutes ago, Hedji said:

 

 

But it also is being delighted with something you hear in a moment of film, and the frustration of exclusion on the soundtrack release.

Oh yeah!

I purchased the four disc TRL ( albeit on sale) even though I already owned two of the discs and the ost was a great listen.

But, two of the best and most prominent themes were absent!

[Andy 4,071]

14 minutes ago, Thor said:

Let's get back on track again, shall we?

 

"It varies, but most often start-to-finish" leads so far with 11 votes, and 'start-to-finish' also leads among the 'always'es.  That's kinda fascinating. One would think it requires some logistics to get that together in one's everyday life, especially for 2CD and 3CD sets. Takes up a considerable chunk of the alloted music listening time, so to speak.

 

It has also been interesting to read some of the replies from the other approach that have a more, shall we say, 'interactive' approach to the material - picking, choosing, listening in bulks, making playlists, suites etc.

 

Thor, just curious, do you rip and make playlists?  I've been a part of this community for years, and I've admired your resolve to stick to your guns.  On the other hand, I have difficulty believing you've never heard a cue that falls outside the album presentation and been entertained by it.

 

EDIT:  My apologies.  I actually worded that rudely.  I shouldn't say I don't believe you... I should ask, has there ever been examples of cues you wished were part of the Album program?

 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

O

25 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

But again, that's just your opinion man.

Well, of course.

But, I happen to be an EXPERT, man!

 

 

11 minutes ago, Hedji said:

 

Looking at your list, where the heck is

 

INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM

RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK

JAWS

CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND

 

None of those need more than 78 minutes.

You JW fans....such an entitled bunch😡

[Holko 9,491]

Yeah, how the fuck dare fans of a person's music like the actual piece of music he originally composed instead of arbitrary butcherings some spambot happens to prefer.

[Thor 7,452]

14 minutes ago, Hedji said:

Thor, just curious, do you rip and make playlists?

 

Yes. I don't usually listen to expanded releases, but I deal with them in at least two circumstances:

 

One is when I occasionally get a promo. I quickly "scroll" through the tracks, skipping along, just so I can say I have "heard it", perhaps for review purposes or something. Then delete it.

 

The other is when I deal with releases that are presented more or less C&C from the get-go, without any previous OST. Without a proper album, making a playlist is the second best option. You'll find a list of some 'whittling/playlist projects' of mine in this thread.

 

Quote

has there ever been examples of cues you wished were part of the Album program?

 

No, not really. I never use the film as a frame-of-reference for my soundtrack listening. All I care about is what I have in front of me, so to speak. I've never cared about what's missing or not, and am usually even unaware of such things.

 

While the whole expansion preference is 'alien' to me, I'm very curious about how fans approach it and "use it" in their everyday life once they've acquired it. And - desperately trying to move this back on-topic now - my assumption before I created this poll was that most people listened to expanded releases in a piecemeal fashion. But so far, the 'start-to-finish' crowd has it!

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Just now, Holko said:

Yeah, how the fuck dare fans of a person's music like the actual piece of mus

ic he originally composed instead of arbitrary butcherings some spambot happens to prefer.

Ever since SW received a 2 LP treatment- unheard of at the time for a soundtrack'- fans have been spoiled . No other composer ever got two Lps. But, instead of being grateful , you acted as if it were your due.

Goldsmith fans were happy to get ONE LP.

So, yes, there is a sense of entitlement endemic to JW fans.

1 minute ago, Thor said:

 

Yes. I don't usually listen to expanded releases, but I deal with them in at least two circumstances:

 

One is when I occasionally get a promo. I quickly "scroll" through the tracks, skipping along, just so I can say I have "heard it". Then delete it.

 

The other is when I deal with releases that are presented more or less C&C from the get-go, without any previous OST. Without a proper album, making a playlist is the second best option. You'll find a list of some 'whittling/playlist projects' of mine in this thread.

 

 

No, not really. I never use the film as a frame-of-reference for my soundtrack listening. All I care about is what I have in front of me, so to speak. I've never cared about what's missing or not, and am usually even unaware of such things.

 

While the whole expansion preference is 'alien' to me, I'm very curious about how fans approach it and "use it" in their everyday life once they've acquired it. And - desperately trying to move this back on-topic now - my assumption before I created this poll was that most people listened tp expanded releases in a piecemeal fashion. But so far, the 'start-to-finish' crowd has it!

Thor, you are suis generis on this topic.

So, don't expect to be satisfied by the responses..😊

[Holko 9,491]

Do you also read a book going from Chapter 10 to 1 to 4 to 2 to 5 to half of 3 to 1 again?

[Bellosh 3,369]

7 minutes ago, Thor said:

While the whole expansion preference is 'alien' to me, I'm very curious about how fans approach it and "use it" in their everyday life once they've acquired it. And - desperately trying to move this back on-topic now - my assumption before I created this poll was that most people listened to expanded releases in a piecemeal fashion. But so far, the 'start-to-finish' crowd has it!

 

I apologize, but this is just such a purposely obtuse take.

 

If you're openly admitting that you only care about what is presented to you, how can you not see why someone would want the music they hear in the film they watched.  People actually do care about the music in the film, because this isn't the Beatles creating a concept album, it's a film score that needs to work for someone else's vision.  They go hand in hand, and to deny that is not being fair to the discussion.  If anything the complete score is arguably more conceptual than an OST that's under 80 minutes.

 

I just don't get it.

[Andy 4,071]

6 minutes ago, Thor said:

The other is when I deal with releases that are presented more or less C&C from the get-go, without any previous OST. Without a proper album, making a playlist is the second best option. You'll find a list of some 'whittling/playlist projects' of mine in this thread.

 

I can get behind this for sure, except when it comes to John Williams.  Then I want the whole enchilada.

 

Back to the topic, I do a lot of listening in the car.  (I know, I know), but it's almost always piecemeal, as dictated by my the patterns of opportunity with my life's schedule.

 

I have a very short commute, so I even listen to an album presentation piecemeal.  

 

 

[Thor 7,452]

Quote

 

I apologize, but this is just such a purposely obtuse take.

 

If you're openly admitting that you only care about what is presented to you, how can you not see why someone would want the music they hear in the film they watched.  People actually do care about the music in the film, because this isn't the Beatles creating a concept album, it's a film score that needs to work for someone else's vision.  They go hand in hand, and to deny that is not being fair to the discussion.  If anything the complete score is arguably more conceptual than an OST that's under 80 minutes.

 

I just don't get it.

 

 

Not looking for an argument in this thread, Bellosh. We can do that elsewhere. I'm just curious about the whole piecemeal vs. start-to-finish thing.

[Bellosh 3,369]

44 minutes ago, Thor said:

Not looking for an argument in this thread, Bellosh. I'm just curious about the whole piecemeal vs. start-to-finish thing.

 

I'm not trying to argue! lol I promise. 

 

My opinion on it is purely for a genuine discussion.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 minute ago, Bellosh said:

 

I apologize, but this is just such a purposely obtuse take.

 

If you're openly admitting that you only care about what is presented to you, how can you not see why someone would want the music they hear in the film they watched.  People actually do care about the music in the film, because this isn't the Beatles creating a concept album, it's a film score that needs to work for someone else's vision.  They go hand in hand, and to deny that is not being fair to the discussion.

 

I just don't get it.

Save yourself headaches.

Thor's attitude is based, in part, by his arbitrary separation of score from film.

I think most score fans are into the music because they heard it WATCHING THE FILM.

Thor listens to the score as as one might listen to a classical recording, divorced from external considerations.

So, if a CD is missing a great cue, unless he actually saw the film, Thor wouldn't notice or care.

It's a weird way of being a film and score fan but I think partially explains his weirdness😍

[Bellosh 3,369]

i mean that's fine and all, and I pretty much already knew that.

 

but we're not expansion fans.  we're fans of the film score music that was written.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Don't question the Thor.

Just accept him.😉

24 minutes ago, Holko said:

Yeah, how the fuck dare fans of a person's music like the actual piece of music he originally composed instead of arbitrary butcherings some spambot happens to prefer.

I assume English isn't your first language?

[Thor 7,452]

3 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

but we're not expansion fans.  we're fans of the film score music that was written.

 

'Expansion fans' was just a shorthand. Writing out "Film score fans who tend to prefer expanded releases over OSTs" was a bit cumbersome for a headline.

[Bellosh 3,369]

fair enough.

[Andy 4,071]

Imagine being amorous with your spouse above the belt in the same order, technique, with what is presented to you every time.  You've reached below the belt, just to say "you've touched it".  And despite consent given, you just stick with the original presentation. 

 

Thor, I'm just being playful.  You have incredible willpower.  Monks want to be you.

[Thor 7,452]

Most of the people are voting in the 'it varies' categories, which is not surprising. But now the 'piecemeal' crowd is getting close - 10 now, vs. 11!

[Bellosh 3,369]

To be clear, I don't need to see the film to be able to like or appreciate the music.

 

BUT....I do believe that all of the music in the film should be available to listen to because it is THE presentation of the score, in my opinion.  Twenty second cues and ALL.

 

I guess that's my stubborn opinion.  But atleast it's best for both worlds (OST/C&Cs)

[bruce marshall 1,314]

16 minutes ago, Hedji said:

 

I can get behind this for sure, except when it comes to John Williams.  Then I want the whole enchilada.

 

 

 

 

You really want/listen to three discs of A.I?

It's a terrific score but even this one I whittled to 66 minutes ( alot for ME!)

Just now, Bellosh said:

 

 

BUT....I do believe that all of the music in the film should be available to listen to because it is THE presentation of the score, in my opinion.  Twenty second cues and ALL.

 

 

You be crazy!

 

😅

[Bellosh 3,369]

Maybe it's an age thing.  I appreciate the fact that someone had to grow up with LP's and got used to 'listening experiences' that way.  Completely understand.

 

But I enjoy it all.  Start to finish, shuffle mode, repeat favorite cues on a drive, you name it.

 

As long as it's all there. 

[Andy 4,071]

It's a fun discussion, but in the time I've spent in this thread, I could've listened to 2 out of 3 Discs of the C&C A.I. score!!!

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 hour ago, Bellosh said:

 

 

But I enjoy it all.  Start to finish, shuffle mode, repeat favorite cues on a drive, you name it.

 

😆

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Some Goldsmith OSTs were only 35 minutes! They were fine. No need for every teeny tiny itty bitty bit.

[Bespin 8,472]

Lets stick to the original LP format before they invented that micro-thing. An album over 46 minutes is suspicious!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

 

18 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said:

Some Goldsmith OSTs were only 35 minutes! They were fine. No need for every teeny tiny itty bitty bit.

 

Indeed!

[bruce marshall 1,314]

46 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said:

Some Goldsmith OSTs were only 35 minutes! They were fine. No need for every teeny tiny itty bitty bit.

The C + C Extremists can't be reasoned with.

I've tried.

Oh, how I've tried.😞

Coincidentally, I just ordered a soundtrack with the following words of wisdom:

 

[Richard Penna 3,664]

19 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

If you define a c and c presentation for what it actually is - the complete recording  sessions

 

But that's not what C&C means - it's not trying to present all 5 takes of one particular cue, like you'd find in a set of recording sessions. It's the final film version of each cue that appeared in the film, usually in the order they appeared.

 

There are some concept albums that Iove to bits - ironically, Thin Red Line, which you reckoned worked well as 2-CDs, I think works fantastically well as the concept album Zimmer made. I have virtually no interest in any more material.

 

But there are other scores where I absolutely want every single cue, even when they're only 30 seconds long. You can't apply one rule to all score releases for everyone.

 

Now, I should caveat this with an admission: I'm the sort of person who hears a piece of music in a random place (film, TV, YouTube, wherever) and immediately wants to know what it is. Hence, when I hear music in a film, I don't find it an unreasonable request to want to hear that music outside the film. I run Shazam all the time when watching a film alone. I swear that when watching Cinderella (the new one), I must've paused that thing half a dozen times to identify which track was playing.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

I know c and c isn't literally a scoring session . But it's close.

 

Glad you like TRL. The expansion is great too. It is also thoughtfully arranged- not just a catalogue of cues. You are missing out on some exquisite music!

 

 

[Score 770]

I listen start-to-finish at least once, then it depends on how much time I have / how much I love the score / how many times I have already listened to it. Most of times, I end up listening to sections of several consecutive cues. There are very few scores that I've managed to listen to start-to-finish more than once or twice. I just don't have time. But there are many scores that I've listened to in all their parts multiple times, just not in a single go on the same day. For me, the important point with C&C releases is to have "everything" (well, almost), so I can decide what I want to listen to on a given day.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

I mostly listen from start to finish, unless I have my entire library on shuffle. Also, I tend to spread one CD over two days if it's my first listen.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

 

 

On 8/28/2020 at 2:00 PM, Bellosh said:

 

If it's a cue I like and want, yes.

 

'Journey to Austria' from The Last Crusade and 'The Kiss' from E.T. say hi, by the way.

 

 

 

Isn't " Kiss" forty nine seconds?

Plus, it's IMPORTANT😊

[Jay 37,250]

Instead of taking a screenshot of text from our own website and uploading it as a big 188KB image, can you please just copy and paste the text and put it in your post like everyone else does?  Thank you.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

I tried.

I posted the link.

[Jay 37,250]

You just have to hold your finger over text on a website and it becomes a blue highlight that you can resize to select which text you want to copy, then come back here and paste it into a post

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Mike Mattesino on expansions:

 

."...There are definitely projects where I now feel I should have diverted from chronology in just a few spots for listening purposes. As long as all the cues are included, I think that listeners appreciate when adjustments make sense for the musical experience. If you just line up cues in order, then you’re making a museum piece, not an album. ...."

 

"I have begun to sense lately that there is a greater interest in having a good listening experience rather than just collecting an inventory of cues."

 

 

 

 

 

MM obviously never visits this forum!

 

😆

[Richard Penna 3,664]

'As long as all the cues are included' is the key phrase.

 

I actualy disagree with him about the 'museum piece' idea. I think that's exactly what these releases are to a large extent. Things can be rearranged a bit if it sounds better, but it should never come at the cost of leaving something off. If a cue really stands out like a sore thumb, that's what the 'additional/bonus' section is for.