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John Williams scores - By Music Label


Jay
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Damn, so LLL probably wouldn't get The Patriot due to the Disney factor. Well, fingers crossed Intrada still have a few releases to come this year, would be another missed anniversary otherwise.

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Pre-fee increase, unexpanded Williams scores with a -0 or -5 anniversary in 2020:

 

  • The Eiger Sanction (45th anniversary, Universal / UME)
  • Presumed Innocent (30th anniversary, Warner Brothers / Varese)
  • Sabrina (25th anniversary, Paramount / UME)
  • Nixon (25th anniversary, Disney / Disney)
  • The Patriot (20th anniversary, Sony / Disney)
  • War of the Worlds (15th anniversary, Paramount / UME)
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Well if MV's comment about trying to make an anniversary was related to a Williams release, and considering their strong ties with Universal, The Eiger Sanction seems like a shoe-in for October or Black Friday.

 

Don't see much of an appetite for an expanded Sabrina or Presumed Innocent (not to mention the issues labels are now having with management at WB).

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They're having issues with Warner Music Group, not Warner Brothers Pictures.  There's no relation between the two entities

 

Oops! I  flip-flopped this, is is Warner Pictures that is the issue, not Warner Music.  Apologies.

 

~

 

2021 anniversaries:

 

  • Fiddler on the Roof (50th anniversary, MGM / UME)
  • SpaceCamp (35th anniversary, Disney / Sony)
  • JFK (30th anniversary, Warner Bros / WMG)
  • Hook (30th anniversary, Sony / Sony)
  • Sleepers (25th anniversary, Warner Bros / UME)
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33 minutes ago, Jay said:

They're having issues with Warner Music Group, not Warner Brothers Pictures.  There's no relation between the two entities

 

Thanks for clarifying. Still doubt there's an expansion for Presumed Innocent in the works though (don't have the faintest idea what's unreleased) but I guess Varese would be happy to expand any Williams scores they partially own.

 

If Warner Music Group are being problematic, that puts HP4 and HP5 on ice as their OSTs belong to Warner Brothers Records (parent company is Warner Music Group).

 

Ironically HP6/HP7/HP8 wouldn't be an issue as those OSTs belong to WaterTower music, which isn't a subsidiary of WMG (thus theoretically easier to license). So a Desplat box isn't out of the question, even if it means skipping the scores in between.

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On 9/4/2020 at 10:39 AM, crumbs said:

If Warner Music Group are being problematic, that puts HP4 and HP5 on ice for the foreseeable future, as their OSTs belong to Warner Brothers Records whose parent company is Warner Music Group. Ironically HP6/HP7/HP8 wouldn't be an issue, as those OSTs belong to WaterTower music, which isn't a subsidiary of WMG (thus theoretically easier to license).

 

Exactly right!

 

 

 

Also, I don't think any issues they are having are permanent, just temporary.

 

Sony Music briefly cut off licensing, but MV has said they are back in now.

 

WMG and UME have been very slow, but not closed off entirely.  From UME, we just got Casper and Swashbuckler in the past few months.  From WMG, other than the Harry Potter box BF 2018, Superman a few months later, and Towering Inferno BF 2019, I can't think off the top of my head of anything else from other composers in the past year or so, but I'm sure they've been some

 

Regardless, after covid, things should return to normal at all these places.  I think Sony Pictures has been closed for any licensing since it started and hasn't reopened yet, for example

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So it's just jumping and shouting, trying to get a hold of Disney? I guess this is a problem when hugecorporations like Disney buy everything else up, instead of communicating with them, they will initiate discussions at their convenience.

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8 minutes ago, Jay said:

Sony Music was briefly cut off, but MV has said they are back in now.

 

They still have those 2 mystery titles as well, which were first mentioned well over a year ago (before there was any hint of issues with Sony). Seems like those have been in development for an unusually long time.

 

A 30th Anniversary expansion for Hook seems like such a no-brainer, Not sure what's stopping them from re-releasing that score under Mike's supervision (other than cost; they said the initial release was extremely expensive IIRC). If what they said about the vaulted unreleased music is true, maybe it's just a licensing nightmare.

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1 hour ago, Arpy said:

So it's just jumping and shouting, trying to get a hold of Disney? I guess this is a problem when hugecorporations like Disney buy everything else up, instead of communicating with them, they will initiate discussions at their convenience.

 

Intrada Records has worked with Disney a ton and put out plenty of scores they control - Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend, Black Hole, Hocus Pocus, Night Crossing, A Far Off Place, Return to Oz, Secret of NIMH, The Rocketeer, Dick Tracy, Alive, etc.  

 

It's certainly plausible they could get to do Nixon and SpaceCamp.  The Patriot, I dunno if that would have to be Intrada, or could be anybody, since Disney only controls the OST album, and Sony Pictures controls all the rest of the music; They'd basically just have to sign paperwork to make the release happen, they don't have to go dig for and transfer any elements or anything

 

The SW and Indy scores will come out on Disney Records in completely form eventually, surely!  We must believe!

 

 

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

They still have those 2 mystery titles as well, which were first mentioned well over a year ago (before there was any hint of issues with Sony). Seems like those have been in development for an unusually long time.

 

They were'nt mentioned BEFORE there was a hint of issues with Sony, they were mentioned BECAUSE there was issues with Sony. Here is the source on JWFan: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29227-sony-music-no-longer-dealing-with-soundtrack-labels-update-la-la-land-is-back-in/ or the original source on FSM: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=116&threadID=118900&archive=0

 

Quote

A 30th Anniversary expansion for Hook seems like such a no-brainer, Not sure what's stopping them from re-releasing that score under Mike's supervision (other than cost; they said the initial release was extremely expensive IIRC). If what they said about the vaulted unreleased music is true, maybe it's just a licensing nightmare.

 

I guess the same things that hold up any other releases: elements or approvals.  In the case of Hook, if those missing reels are still missing, maybe they don't consider a new version worth doing until they are found?  As for approvals, if they found any of the song demos or anything, they'd have to track down the names of any vocal performers and see if they are under contract with anyone that would need to approve.  Plus, all Spielberg films need to be approved by him, and not just by JW; and he's been pretty busy.  Of course, he did allow a bunch of really weird deleted scenes on the latest Hook blu, so that gives me hope.  But then again, maybe he wouldn't want a release of a musical-ish film score he seems to generally feel ashamed of, when West Side Story is imminent.  Luckily by the end of 2021, the actual 30th anniversary of Hook (it opened December 11 1991), West Side Story should be old news...

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I looked up which film scores that had an OST album on the Hollywood Records label (the label that released The Patriot OST) and have gotten an expansion from the specialty labels, and this is what I found:

 

  • JNH's Alive (Intrada)
  • Goldsmith's The Ghost and the Darkness (Intrada)
  • Zimmer's MIssion: Impossible II (Mondo - LP only)
  • Newman's Operation Dumbo Drop (Intrada)
  • Goldsmith's Powder (Intrada)
  • Horner's The Rocketeer (Intrada)

 

So it looks like other than the weird Mondo exception, it's gonna be Intrada for The Patriot.

 

Can you imagine, though, if Mondo releases a Patriot expansion on vinyl only? 

 

I don't think it's possible, because I don't think Williams allows anyone except Mike to work on his scores, and I don't know if Mike would do Patriot for Mondo without securing rights for Intrada to do a simultaneous CD version, but stranger things have happened.....

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

As for approvals, if they found any of the song demos or anything, they'd have to track down the names of any vocal performers and see if they are under contract with anyone that would need to approve.

 

Sadly they never elaborated on why that material couldn't be released the first time (we can guess, could be a multitude of reasons) but I suspect they wouldn't bother re-releasing the score unless they were able to get all the material out there and do it comprehensively (especially when fans already purchased that flawed release). They probably want to ensure any subsequent release is worth the second purchase. 

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That's Mike's philosophy for any score he works on: Make all prior releases (and bootlegs) irrelevant so the new one is the only edition you need.  Sometimes they have to make sacrifices to fit in the 80 minute runtime, sometimes a composer might reject the inclusion of something he would like to include, but that seems to be the goal he strives for

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I cleaned up the main post to put OST licenses that have expired into their own section

 

And I also had 20th Century Records in the wrong spot!

 

And I also added Heidi and Jane Eyre!

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 9/4/2020 at 9:01 AM, Jay said:

Pre-fee increase, unexpanded Williams scores with a -0 or -5 anniversary in 2020:

 

  • The Eiger Sanction (45th anniversary, Universal / UME)
  • SpaceCamp (35th anniversary, Disney / Sony)
  • Presumed Innocent (30th anniversary, Warner Brothers / Varese)
  • Sabrina (25th anniversary, Paramount / UME)
  • Nixon (25th anniversary, Disney / Disney)
  • The Patriot (20th anniversary, Sony / Disney)

 

Really @Jay ? ;)  Was this intentional to leave WOTW off at the time to throw us off the trail?   :P

 

I thought it was completed just before the cut-off date?  

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Wow weird! I dunno how I managed to forget that one when making that post, nor how nobody else noticed I forgot it either.  Fixed now!

Yea, it was recorded before the cutoff -  The film opened June 23, and Mike's post says the cutoff date is is July 3rd

 

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Close, but it says 25th anniversary ;) 

 

1991 Hook Sony Sony

LLL, Intrada, Varese

 

How weird would it be to have a potential Hook re-release go through Intrada or Varese?  I know it's happened before with HA2 and The Fury, but IMHO there's nobody better at artwork than Jim Titus, he definitely puts his heart and soul into these releases and it shows!

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Typo fixed and I agree, Jim Titus is the best in the business - and it's not even close

 

I was very happy he got to do the artwork for Varese's Dracula set!

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Where's the SW:ST?

 

Year Film Film Studio Music Label Potential Label
1967 Valley of the Dolls Disney Disney Intrada
1973 Cinderella Liberty Disney Disney Intrada
1977 Star Wars Disney Disney Disney Records
1980 Empire Strikes Back Disney Disney Disney Records
1981 Raiders of the Lost Ark Disney Disney Disney Records
1983 Return of the Jedi Disney Disney Disney Records
1984 Temple of Doom Disney Disney Disney Records
1989 Last Crusade Disney Disney Disney Records
1995 Nixon Disney Disney Intrada
1999 Phantom Menace Disney Disney Disney Records
2000 The Patriot Sony Disney Intrada
2002 Attack of the Clones Disney Disney Disney Records
2005 Revenge of the Sith Disney Disney Disney Records
2008 Crystal Skull Disney Disney Disney Records
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Huh, must have been an oversight.  The BFG is also missing from that post.

 

Obviously, those can only be expanded by Disney Records themselves

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I cleaned up a few mistakes / misinformation in various posts, should be all correct info posted by me now.

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Arista Records

  • 1990 Home Alone (La-La Land 2015)

Jay, IMHO Arista Records released the song album, not John Williams' score which was released by CBS Records.

 

Dreamworks Records

  • 2004 The Terminal
  • 2005 War of the Worlds (Intrada 2020)
  • 2005 Munich

Jay, in fact these 3 soundtracks have been released by Decca Records, not Dreamworks Records.

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On 05/10/2020 at 2:50 PM, E-Wan said:

Arista Records

  • 1990 Home Alone (La-La Land 2015)

Jay, IMHO Arista Records released the song album, not John Williams' score which was released by CBS Records.

 

Absolutely right!  Fixed!

 

Quote

Dreamworks Records

  • 2004 The Terminal
  • 2005 War of the Worlds (Intrada 2020)
  • 2005 Munich

Jay, in fact these 3 soundtracks have been released by Decca Records, not Dreamworks Records.

 

Internationally, sure.  In the USA, they are Dreamworks Records.

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10 minutes ago, Jay said:

Internationally, sure.  In the USA, they are Dreamworks Records.

 

Really? According to the following sources all U.S. versions were released by Decca Records too.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williams_discography

 

http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/title/65585/Terminal%2C+The

http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/title/69722/War+Of+The+Worlds

http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/title/73506/Munich

 

Only FYC promos for The Terminal and Munich were released by DreamWorks.

 

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Hmmm I'll have to double check my CDs at home, then!  I was looking at them this weekend for something and I remember the Dreamworks Records logo clear as day on Amistad, Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report, and Catch Me If You Can.... but now I can't remember precisely what Terminal WOTW, and Munich said!  I'll double check when I get home

 

EDIT: Wikipedia says UMG bought Dreamworks Records in 2003, so maybe the titles released after that point still had the Dreamworks Records logo on them, but they were not distributed by UMG/Decca and got Decca catalog numbers

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hmmm I'll have to double check my CDs at home, then!  I was looking at them this weekend for something and I remember the Dreamworks Records logo clear as day on Amistad, Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report, and Catch Me If You Can.... but now I can't remember precisely what Terminal WOTW, and Munich said!  I'll double check when I get home

 

EDIT: Wikipedia says UMG bought Dreamworks Records in 2003, so maybe the titles released after that point still had the Dreamworks Records logo on them, but they were not distributed by UMG/Decca and got Decca catalog numbers

 

Yes, I think this is the reason why Amistad, Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can are Dreamworks Records releases and The Terminal, War of the Worlds and Munich are not.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Curiously, that OST album was Sony Classical (SME) in the US, but Decca (UMG) in every other territory.


I assume Sony Music will be the entity that matters, but that's probably why I got mixed up above.  I fixed it so it's Sony in both places now.

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  • 7 months later...

Crossed Always off the list.

 

The Eiger Sanction and Born on the Fourth of July is all that remains at MCA Records to be expanded!

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Added a note about the Quartet release of Images.


I waffled on crossing it out, because it got the MM and JW-approved treatment now, or leaving it un-crossed out, because it's not expanded.  I decided on the latter but could have gone either way.

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  • 1 month later...

Crossed The Eiger Sanction off the list.

 

Born On The Fourth Of July is the only remaining score with an MCA Records contract that hasn't been expanded!

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  • 3 months later...

I'd buy a JW at Universal collection!  One big box or separate releases, just get out what's preserved!

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13 hours ago, Jay said:

I'd buy a JW at Universal collection!  One big box or separate releases, just get out what's preserved!

 

No new information here but I reviewed the Disaster Box podcast (circa December 2019) and these were the key points:

  • Mike said he doesn't know if elements still exist for The Secret Ways (surprised nobody went looking back in the FSM days?)
  • The Rare Breed and Story of a Woman have both been transferred, and Intrada was planning to release both scores (not sure if they secured a licence from Universal?) but when they approached Williams he said no.
  • The Sugarland Express has also been archived and was "good material." Apparently it was "presented to him" but he again said no. Not sure if that means an album was assembled, or if he was just asked about doing it.
  • Valley of the Dolls has been transferred but the tapes were in very poor shape and considered unusable a few years back due to WOW, but improvements in sound restoration software mean it could be fixed now. Mike mentioned waiting until the dust settled with Disney/Fox before approaching them about a license for this.

He also mentioned there were other unreleased Universal titles being looked at and he wasn't kidding! Since that interview we've had expansions for The River, Far & Away, Always and The Eiger Sanction. So things are quite fruitful with Universal at the moment...

 

JW does seem to like the box sets though. Perhaps if he feels a standalone release for Sugarland is unsubstantial, he might be agreeable to a collection of similarly short scores from his early Universal career.

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On 10/11/2021 at 9:38 AM, crumbs said:

BOT4J looking a bit lonely here... 

 

Is there no major appetite for an expansion of this score, due to the repetition of the main theme? 


It’s not just that the themes repeat, it’s that many of the repetitions are note-for-note the same, down to even reusing multiple full score pages for large sections of some cues.


It would certainly be the least interesting expansion of the Oliver Stone scores, not that I wouldn’t snatch it up anyway!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Much like I just did in the By Film Studio thread, here's the unexpanded/unreleased, pre-AFM rate increase scores only, by Music Label!

 

Disney Records

    1. 1977 Star Wars
    2. 1980 The Empire Strikes Back
    3. 1981 Raiders of the Lost Ark
    4. 1983 Return of the Jedi
    5. 1984 Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
    6. 1989 Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
    7. 1995 Nixon
    8. 1999 The Phantom Menace
    9. 2000 The Patriot
    10. 2002 Attack of the Clones
    11. 2005 Revenge of the Sith

    Sony Music Entertainment

      1. 1969 The Reivers
      2. 1986 SpaceCamp
      3. 1991 Hook
      4. 1997 Seven Years In Tibet
      5. 1998 Stepmom
      6. 1999 Angela's Ashes

      Universal Music Group

        1. 1967 Valley of the Dolls
        2. 1973 Cinderella Liberty
        3. 1968 Heidi
        4. 1970 Jane Eyre
        5. 1971 Fiddler On The Roof
        6. 1989 Born On The Fourth Of July
        7. 1995 Sabrina
        8. 1996 Sleepers
        9. 1997 Amistad
        10. 2002 Catch Me If You Can
        11. 2004 The Terminal

        Warner Music Group

        1. 1963 Diamond Head
        2. 1987 The Witches Of Eastwick
        3. 1988 The Accidental Tourist
        4. 1991 JFK

        Varèse Sarabande

        1. 1990 Presumed Innocent

        There is no music label (the film studio owns all the rights)

        1. 1958 Daddy-O (Sony)
        2. 1960 I Passed For White (Paramount)
        3. 1960 Because They're Young (Sony)
        4. 1961 The Secret Ways (Universal)
        5. 1963 Gidget Goes To Rome (Sony)
        6. 1964 The Killers (Universal)
        7. 1966 The Rare Breed (Universal)
        8. 1966 The Plainsman (Universal)
        9. 1969 Daddy's Gone A-Hunting (Warner Brothers)
        10. 1970 Storia di una donna (Story of a Woman) (Universal)
        11. 1972 The Screaming Woman (Universal)
        12. 1973 The Paper Chase (20th Century Studios)
        13. 1974 Conrack (20th Century Studios)
        14. 1974 The Sugarland Express (Universal)
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        • 2 weeks later...

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