JW Fan 1 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 https://myscena.org/norman-lebrecht/lebrechts-album-of-the-week-john-williams-in-vienna-dg/ https://slippedisc.com/2020/09/we-review-john-williamss-one-star-wars/ I have posted the links to a classical music blogger's review of Williams and the Vienna Philharmonic. Have at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Thumbs up or thumbs down? 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Vague metaphoric gobbledygook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 wait isn't he the guy who hates Williams? That name seems familiar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bayesian 1,363 Posted September 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2020 Haters gonna hate. Annoyingly, Lebrecht is unclear about the reason for his unnecessarily mean-spirited criticism. He says that the album getting one star would be an insult, yet appears to have no problem with JW’s conducting or ASM’s playing. He seems to think the VPO has no business ever playing JW’s film music, which supposedly can’t ever stand on its own without the visuals it was written for, although he mentions exceptional pieces (so how about discussing those?). And at the end, he makes it all about himself, just as you would expect a prick with a pretension complex to do. Tydirium, crlbrg, Remco and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 i wont read it then. I guess he's be pissed if Williams writes the new theme for the orchestra ok Il'll stop at the first paragraph "Here’s a first – a record that resists categorisation. To give it one star would be an insult, two stars a gross over-estimation. No stars is as close as I can get to describe the distinctly uncomfortable feeling I get from hearing John Williams conduct his film scores with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,363 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, King Mark said: Yup. When a review starts off as snide and bitchy as that, you know the writer is simply pandering to his base and/or his own puffed-up ego. His words aren’t worth the time to read them. I wish I could take back that link-click I gave him. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt S. 493 Posted September 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2020 Boy, those late trumpets in Star Wars must have really set him off. Tydirium, Taikomochi and Score 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 He's made a career of being a contrarian wankspangle. Pay it no mind. Tydirium and Bayesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steve 593 Posted September 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2020 Who is Lebrecht and why does his opinion matter? Edmilson, Fabulin, MikeH and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Doug Adams 494 Posted September 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2020 It's still better than this laughably awful screed: https://www.splicetoday.com/music/the-australo-hungarian-empire-strikes-back It's a masterpiece of how not to write about music. Or anything. Remco, The Illustrious Jerry, Holko and 4 others 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 https://theclassicreview.com/album-reviews/review-john-williams-in-vienna-mutter-vienna-philharmonic-williams/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Is misusing Australo supposed to be a joke? If yes... how? Quote The problem is that when Williams decided to score Star Wars like Richard Wagner, using “leit motifs,” he created static versions of every character. It’s inherent in the method; Luke is always represented by “Luke’s Theme,” so he’s always sad and resolute. Leia is always gossamer, compassionate, and a sort-of love interest. Darth Vader is always marching down some long, battle-scarred corridor. The movies aren’t like that at all. Luke’s anything but static; over the course of the trilogy, he grows up. A whiny teenager becomes a driven, fearless warrior. Darth Vader also transforms, changing from a petty, tyrannical agent of evil into the father and liberator he ought to have always been. This creti... "person" never even bothered to actually listen to the scores, has he? But then why the need to get on a high high horse and boast about his completely wrong assumptions based on concert pieces? Remco and Bayesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, Doug Adams said: It's still better than this laughably awful screed: https://www.splicetoday.com/music/the-australo-hungarian-empire-strikes-back It's a masterpiece of how not to write about music. Or anything. I have to give Lebrecht credit, that screed was part of my motivation to become a musicologist who specializes in film music. Not the effect he intended, I imagine! Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 He has raised points in the past that I have agreed with but he is wrong about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Norman Lebrecht is the only person ever to have crossed the treacherous land border between Australia and Hungary and lived to tell the tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Wait people, Lebrecht is the first one (with the generic "I don't like it, so they shouldn't play it" thing), the Australo-Hungarian guy is Kugelmass. I mean, they are both wrong, but the styles are totally different! I'd love to see John Williams "going Beethoven" and replying to those people in the style of the good old times, but unfortunately, it seems excessively out of his character... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Eh, more snobbery 'film music isn't real music'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 This is the John Williams equivalent Christian Clemmensen Hans Zimmer score review Taikomochi and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I like the way this release caps the alphabetical discography of the VPO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Philharmonic_discography Tchaikovsky, Verdi, Wagner, Williams... balance has been brought to the universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: This is the John Williams equivalent Christian Clemmensen Hans Zimmer score review CC has the decency to examine Zimmer's scores, this review is just shameful. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 So, John Williams music can't stand on its own without the visuals. Then the Wiener Philharmoniker should never again play any piece of any opera ever written, because, as this man may or may not know, they were written for actors on a stage, as well. In fact, it's WORSE with classical music and opera, because many people know the pieces, but have no clue what the story is of the operas they're extracted from. Score and Bayesian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawel P. 738 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 If I understood this review right, the bottom line is that it's not good because it can't be good. I don't care what the status of this critic is, whether he is great, legendary, influential. Why should we care? He is simply unprofessional. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I dunno. what if VPO and Deutche Grammaphone execs read it can they be influenced into thinking they were wrong doing this concert or feel guilty about it ? He's basically accusing them of commiting somekind of great sacrilege against the classical elite Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I fight against snobby opinions like this one because I think they ostracize classical music and its fans from other lovers of music. Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 One Twitter user aptly compared Lebrecht to Joanne Rowling's Rita Skeeter character. Remco and Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 5 hours ago, King Mark said: I dunno. what if VPO and Deutche Grammaphone execs read it can they be influenced into thinking they were wrong doing this concert or feel guilty about it ? He's basically accusing them of commiting somekind of great sacrilege against the classical elite Do you not think the exposure this album and concert would've afforded to both parties and the sales of the album (plus streaming and what-not) would make them inclined to care what this dipshit has to say? Countless times have I heard it said that film music was a gateway for people to discover/rediscover classical music. It's one review in a largely positive critical consensus, I'm not losing sleep over this snob's opinions. Tydirium and Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 This is like when film score fans look down their noses at video game music, right? Circle of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dave Norris 18 Posted September 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2020 He’s a well know instigator in classical music circles. I think its position in classical music charts around the world should speak for itself I’m sorry I wasted 30 seconds of my time reading it ! Also hello everyone-I’ve decided to jump in after reading this forum for years ! Many of you know me already so please be kind Once, Jim Ware, Taikomochi and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Nice to see you pop in, Dave! Dave Norris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted September 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2020 10 hours ago, Quintus said: This is like when film score fans look down their noses at video game music, right? Circle of life. No. A lot of videogame music is better than current film scores! Remco, Fabulin and Tydirium 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 20 minutes ago, King Mark said: No. A lot of videogame music is better than current film scores! You and I realise that, yes. But plenty would vehemently reject the notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 There's some absolutely incredible video game music. I'm sure the vast majority here would agree Quintus and Remco 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastoEls 563 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Romão said: There's some absolutely incredible video game music. I'm the vast majority here would agree I hold Yuzo Koshiro’s Streets of Rage stuff very dearly, And Rob Hubbard’s stuff for EA in the early 1990s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 The breathtaking contempt he has for film music is telling. Like he's unceremoniously throwing an entire genre and body of music under the bus as being beneath him somehow. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted September 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2020 I'm not as hip or famous as Mr. Lebrecht, but here's my own take: https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2020/09/07/john-williams-in-vienna/ Fabulin, Ricard, Marian Schedenig and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 19 hours ago, Romão said: There's some absolutely incredible video game music. I'm sure the vast majority here would agree I suppose my impression is coloured somewhat by the bigoted ignoramus views of the late Stefancos, god rest his soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 hour ago, TownerFan said: I'm not as hip or famous as Mr. Lebrecht, but here's my own take: https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2020/09/07/john-williams-in-vienna/ Nice write-up! Now that there is a reputable article written on the topic, I have added the distinguished performance on this concert to the 1st hornist's (German) wikipedia page It's certainly an interesting detail that only two USAmerican natives have so far conducted the VPO... One piece of trivia I would add is that per Disney, blue is the colour of Cinderella, so ASM's dress choice might have been deliberate. Spoiler . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 6 hours ago, TownerFan said: https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2020/09/07/john-williams-in-vienna/ A good article, Maurizio! Let me make two corrections (or perhaps one correction and one comment): 1) Hanslick's first name was Eduard 2) The Philharmoniker were founded in 1842, which makes them quite old (62 years older than the LSO, for example), but still rather young when compared with the truly old institutions, like the Staatskapelle Dresden that's almost 300 years older and performed with Heinrich Schütz (!). Here's an interesting list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Thanks, Marian! Duly noted and corrected. I'm aware that the Philharmoniker aren't the oldest European musical institution, but they're perhaps the one which kept attached stronger than others to the (especially Viennese) musical tradition. I hope I was clear enough in making that point. Marian Schedenig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Music needs Lebrechts as much as a bird needs an ornithologist. blondheim and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/6/2020 at 8:31 AM, Dave Norris said: He’s a well know instigator in classical music circles. I think its position in classical music charts around the world should speak for itself I’m sorry I wasted 30 seconds of my time reading it ! Also hello everyone-I’ve decided to jump in after reading this forum for years ! Many of you know me already so please be kind Welcome Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/6/2020 at 2:31 PM, Dave Norris said: Also hello everyone-I’ve decided to jump in after reading this forum for years ! Many of you know me already so please be kind Surely you've been reading long enough to know this isn't how things work here. crumbs and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Great to see @Dave Norris around here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Another Lebrecht article... Man, some of the comments on SD make me want to vomit. https://slippedisc.com/2020/09/john-williams-is-top-of-the-national-charts/ Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 . MaxTheHouseelf and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Norris 18 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 On 9/9/2020 at 10:09 AM, TownerFan said: Great to see @Dave Norris around here! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 On 9/6/2020 at 1:41 AM, King Mark said: I dunno. what if VPO and Deutche Grammaphone execs read it can they be influenced into thinking they were wrong doing this concert or feel guilty about it ? He's basically accusing them of commiting somekind of great sacrilege against the classical elite DG is owned by the UMG, and their priority is making money. So it seems the release is doing great from their point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 I think the Vienna PO is very musician driven, the players voice will be heard. They decide who will conduct in the New Year's concert etc. I'm sure that the office asked if they wanted to play with JW and as seen in that recording(and heard live in the audience) many of the musicians showed their enthusiasm for this music and JW. And they are top musicians, Lebrecht isn't. This 5 star expert must hate the fact that this zero star artist is commissioned to compose a new fanfare for this wonderful orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, moi said: I think the Vienna PO is very musician driven, the players voice will be heard. The VPO is democratically organised - the orchestra members themselves are responsible for organisational and management decisions. This includes their unusual M.O. (modus operandi) of not having a principal conductor. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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