Do actors who can't really sing ruin your experience of film musicals?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Discuss!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Depends

[Datameister 2,037]

Depends on how strong the orchestral accompaniment is. 😉 I'm no big fan of most of the singing in Burton's Sweeney Todd, for instance, but I love the orchestral treatment so much that I don't mind.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I think I'm one of the few who's looking forward to Spielberg's West Side Story, but one thing I am NOT looking forward to is Ansel Elgort singing "Maria."

[Lord Zimmer 211]

This is about Russell Crowe, isn’t it?

[mstrox 6,643]

It depends on a few things - what's the role?  what's the song/intent of the song?  Can the person carry a tune, they just clearly "aren't a singer?"  Or are they genuinely awful.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 minute ago, Lord Zimmer said:

This is about Russell Crowe, isn’t it?

Yup!

 

😝😜😛😅

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

12 minutes ago, Datameister said:

Depends on how strong the orchestral accompaniment is. 😉 I'm no big fan of most of the singing in Burton's Sweeney Todd, for instance, but I love the orchestral treatment so much that I don't mind.

 

The thing about movie adaptations of musicals is that they often get new orchestral arrangements. I think Les Miserables (2012) has a great orchestral adaptation, but the score is let down by the singing of some of the leads, particularly Russell Crowe. Similar criticism applies to The Phantom of the Opera (2004), Mamma Mia, and so on.

 

5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I think I'm one of the few who's looking forward to Spielberg's West Side Story, but one thing I am NOT looking forward to is Ansel Elgort singing "Maria."

 

So they're not reshooting his scenes with another actor?

[Edmilson 7,384]

West Side Story probably isn't coming out this year, so they still have time to figured out what to do (or to expect that everyone forgets Elgort's controversy).

[Bilbo 3,709]

The fact that it’s a musical ruins the film for me. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

But you haven't seen it yet.

[Bilbo 3,709]

It’s a musical. I know it will be bad. Because it’s a musical. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Because they're unrealistic?

[Bilbo 3,709]

Nothing breaks immersion quite like a choreographed song and dance routine. And generally the songs are cheesey shite. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

But WSS is a classic! There's not a single shitty song there.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Oliver Reed in TOMMY made Crowe sound like Caruso.

But, at least he got his  character across welll. Unlike Crowe.

[Smeltington 1,436]

 

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I think Les Miserables (2012) has a great orchestral adaptation, but the score is let down by the singing of some of the leads, particularly Russell Crowe. Similar criticism applies to The Phantom of the Opera (2004), Mamma Mia, and so on.

 

You named all the worst offenders. Crowe, Butler, and Brosnan. I liked the Les Mis film, and the music in it, a lot, so it was a shame Crowe was such a complete embarrassment. Just dub the poor guy.

 

Probably won't watch the new West Side Story... the OCR is fantastic and they won't top that, plus I like the 60s film version already. A Spielberg remake is the last thing anyone needs.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Great musicals have always had revivals.

And. always should!

[Thor 7,463]

I don't really watch a lot of film musicals, but it depends on the project, I guess.

 

They solved it pretty cleverly in GOODBYE MR. CHIPS wherein the totally incapable singer Peter O'Toole "spoke" his song parts instead.

[Jay 37,281]

The only movie musical I like is South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut >shrug<

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Sometimes acting ability is more important than musicality.

 

Gere did a good job in CHICAGO - great musical!

[Smeltington 1,436]

3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Great musicals have always had revivals.

And. always should!

 

On stage, sure, because it's a live experience. With film, though, you're in remake territory. The earlier version is still around to compete with the new effort. And in this case, I have a hard time believing the remake will be worthy.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

26 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

A Spielberg remake is the last thing anyone needs.

 

He's obviously doing it for himself.

 

21 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Gere did a good job in CHICAGO - great musical!

 

His singing isn't very good, though.

[Smeltington 1,436]

  

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

He's obviously doing it for himself.

 

He should keep it to himself!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

26 minutes ago, Thor said:

They solved it pretty cleverly in GOODBYE MR. CHIPS wherein the totally incapable singer Peter O'Toole "spoke" his song parts instead.

 

That doesn't sound like a solution that would work well for existing musicals.

[Bayesian 1,359]

I must be the only one who didn’t mind Crowe’s singing in Les Miz. It’s been years since I’ve seen it, though, so maybe a rewatch will change my tune (pun intended).

[bruce marshall 1,314]

37 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

He's obviously doing it for himself.

 

 

His singing isn't very good, though.

I meant to say " decent".

😎

53 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

 

On stage, sure, because it's a live experience. With film, though, you're in remake territory. The earlier version is still around to compete with the new effort. And in this case, I have a hard time believing the remake will be worthy.

Fair point.

But, Broadway ain't what it used to be.

[Arpy 4,145]

Urgh, musicals. It's strange to see a performance in a musical played to no discernible audience, like some weird flash mob in a shopping mall or a park. Something about them feels unnatural. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Sheesh, what's wrong with some of you killjoys?

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Here's a WEIRD one...

I visited an abandoned apartment today and LES MISERABLES was on the music stand😳

[gkgyver 1,645]

7 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Nothing breaks immersion quite like a choreographed song and dance routine. 

 

What about Spider-Man 3? 

[TSMefford 1,509]

Personally, for me, the pitch perfect Broadway style singing doesn't always interest me in the film format.

 

If an actor is acting the hell out of a scene and isn't as strong of a singer, but can carry the tune just fine (but not perfect) then I would much rather that. It just rings false for me when I can audibly hear the switch from regular dialog (if there is any) to the obvious studio recording and all the notes are bloody perfect. I like the spontaneous sound when it's mic'd and done live on the set. Makes it feel more immersive and genuine, as do a couple of imperfect notes.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

6 hours ago, Arpy said:

Urgh, musicals. It's strange to see a performance in a musical played to no discernible audience, like some weird flash mob in a shopping mall or a park. Something about them feels unnatural. 

 

You're the audience.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

People like Bilbo and Arpy have no imagination. 

[Arpy 4,145]

The only musicals I've enjoyed were Sweeney Todd and Into the Woods and a big part of that is Sondheim's scores. 

 

 

[A24 4,326]

IMO, Sweeney Todd is Burton's best movie since Ed Wood. Into The Woods is not really that good of a movie but it has its moments thanks to some of the songs and Streep. 

 

 

[Pellaeon 593]

Most of my favorite movies are full-on musicals…

 

Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
The Sound of Music
The Court Jester
Mary Poppins
Thoroughly Modern Millie
White Christmas
Sleeping Beauty (1959)
Yellow Submarine
A Hard Day’s Night
The Producers

 

Or at least part musicals…

 

Team America: World Police
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Romeo and Juliet (Olivia Hussey)

 

We watch a lot of musicals in my house, your Fred Astaires and your Gene Kellys and your Rogers and Hammersteins. Performers used to have just bucketloads of talent. You just don’t see that today. I like La-La Land a lot, but, sad that’s the best they can pull off today.

 

As for West Side Story, love the stage show (I have been in it as a kid; who hasn’t?), but the movie really falls flat in my opinion.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Somewhere, Pierce Brosnan is doing his OTT Bond 'painface' in response to this thread. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

15 hours ago, Smeltington said:

A Spielberg remake is the last thing anyone needs.

I wish you'd told him that, at the beginning of 1989 

[Quintus 5,399]

No. Sometimes it makes better. 

[Smeltington 1,436]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I wish you'd told him that, at the beginning of 1989 

 

He never asks me what I think about anything  >:-o

 

10 hours ago, TSMefford said:

If an actor is acting the hell out of a scene and isn't as strong of a singer, but can carry the tune just fine (but not perfect) then I would much rather that.

 

Agreed, within reason. Crowe's voice was an exception because he was just downright unpleasant to listen to. But all the other actors in Les Mis pulled off what you're describing beautifully.

[TSMefford 1,509]

7 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

 

He never asks me what I think about anything  >:-o

 

 

Agreed, within reason. Crowe's voice was an exception because he was just downright unpleasant to listen to. But all the other actors in Les Mis pulled off what you're describing beautifully.

You know, it’s odd, I actually didn’t have an issue with Crowes voice. The other thing too is that I feel like his character would sing that way. It felt very Organic to me. I honestly never even notice what people have issues with for him. Feels natural.
 

I have far more issue with the grossly synthetic and auto tuned voices in Disney’s Beauty and the Beast remake. If they can’t sing or they miss a few notes, then either get someone who can sing, or embrace the natural feel. 
 

At least Crowe and Les Miserables had the guts to put acting and performance first, and didn’t feel the need to sanitize the singing.

[mstrox 6,643]

Burton's Sweeney Todd is a perfect example - nobody is a great singer but they all at least carry the tune.  While I didn't care for the movie, I didn't mind the singing in the recent live action Beauty and the Beast for the same reason.  Now if it's a musical about, like, a great singer, or if it has a big showstopper song where somebody really needs to belt, that person should be a singer.

[TSMefford 1,509]

4 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Burton's Sweeney Todd is a perfect example - nobody is a great singer but they all at least carry the tune.  While I didn't care for the movie, I didn't mind the singing in the recent live action Beauty and the Beast for the same reason.  Now if it's a musical about, like, a great singer, or if it has a big showstopper song where somebody really needs to belt, that person should be a singer.

Agreed on your last point.

 

in regards to Beauty and the Beast, the singing itself isn’t the issue necessarily. It’s the horrid auto-tune job. There are very jarring synthetic jumps between some notes and even times where the auto tune sounds as if it’s over correcting. Completely ruins it for me and takes me out of the already mediocre film I’m watching. If you can’t convincingly auto-tune it, then either leave it alone or get someone who can actually accomplish what you want.

[Smeltington 1,436]

Sounds like they approached the music the same way as the visuals.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

It's OK to use actors who cannot sing, as long as the songs are dubbed. But I guess big shot actors like Crowe can't handle getting told they suck at singing.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Marni Nixon dubbed everyone and no-one cared!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

She should have dubbed Crowe!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

Goodbye, Crowe.