Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted September 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 15, 2020 Thanks for the suggestion, @JohnnyD! What a fantastic subtle score and what a journey. I rewatched the film two nights ago in preparation, and also listened to the whole score while reading @Incanus' excellent analysis - so this time this is not a simple plug to something I like like it was with his HP1, it actually was a major major help in wrapping my head around the score, unused cues, alternates and everything. Go check it out! You know the drill: treat the score as gospel, edit the movie around it. Thankfully I didn't need to do much of the latter - the big plus here is a good number of unused/tracked over cues coming to the fore. And other stuff coming out from under the other sounds. Let's get right into it! Movement I - The Family Cybertronics already presents the problem of syncing up such minimalistic music with well hidden sync points - but I guess this works fine. As far as we know, Henry Is Selected is for a deleted scene - but since I think we don't know of, and certainly don't have any deleted scenes, I thought I should just try using it as a partial alternate where the coldness of the cryosleep gets overtaken by Monica's cor anglais. It ends earlier than it should but better than just a black screen for the whole thing. Whew, this is an unexpectedly long stretch. Plenty of unused music - part of David's Arrival, part of Of Course I'm Not Sure, all of David Studies Monica (strange approach to a somewhat strange scene), and part of Reading the Words (since the movie and the promo both use different edits of this cue, I took the liberty of approaching it as two versions of the same bit side by side). More unused music, I think I synced it up correctly. Both fit. David and the Spinach is kinda straightforward enough, but The Operating Scene's unused and quite a bit longer - I found one obvious cut, from the doctor hunched over cleaning the thing, to him being more upright talking to Monica, the thing never seen in his hands again. Syncing the noise with the cleaning laser was a fun idea. Cue's longer than the scene, I guessed a bit. All of these are straightforward enough. Abandoned's coda would score Gigolo Joe's first appearance but I didn't feel that was right, so I just let the fade to black stay black. ragoz350, Chewy, Madmartigan JC and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Oh, this is perhaps the best JW restored isolated score that could be done (imho). crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 Movement II - The Journey Moon Rising fits well. I chose to include the extension because the transition to it is pretty cool - but I wasn't going to waste time on cutting the footage to it because it's significantly longer. Biker Hounds was cut up a bit, some of it like the shot of Joe in the cage isn't even synced up properly in the movie. Pretty much fits. Journey to Rouge City was microedited. The climactic crash scoring "only" the car being full onscreen is a bit strange but that's how it's in the film and the rest is fine. Immaculate Heart's unused. Dr Know is a very fun source piece in context, with the "main menu" music and everything, and To Manhattan is unused again. If you sync up the end of To Manhattan (this one), interestingly the opening syncs up with the beginning of the action scene with David getting in the amphibicopter... unfortunately not much would be in great sync, but it's a fun timing coincidence. In actuality the footage is much shorter so I had to stretch it. Reading Room fits nicely. Replicas is great fitting horror music, and it all fits. I had to stretch Finding the Blue Fairy just a bit. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Great work! Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Hm, i just noticed. Where's Canoeing with Pinocchio? In the film, this cue seems to be playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 56 minutes ago, ragoz350 said: Hm, i just noticed. Where's Canoeing with Pinocchio? In the film, this cue seems to be playing... Damn, I rendered and uploaded it but forgot to include it! Thanks for the notice, post updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 Movement III - Finale Kind of straightforward. This is the original, warm and "friendly" version. A bit longer and less straightforward - this is the colder, revised version, actually not only of the previous cue but seems to be a partial revision of the next one's opening, too. The final film combines them, using the first half of the first, warm version, and the second half of the colder more distant version - even taking the partial revision idea further and looping parts of this cue to cover up the cello part of the next one. And here we have the showstopper finale where the emotions are let loose after a score's worth of restraint and subtlety. All of these cues fit, even if the final film messes with Reunion a bit. At the end I've recreated JW's original intended credits even if I really don't like it. ragoz350 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 That was fast. Thank you so much. This is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 5 hours ago, JohnnyD said: Here is another request: Hook. Oh. That might take a few years, since I wasn't planning on getting into the score until LLL/MM revisits it properly. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 Bonus - The alternates (well, the more interesting ones) Interestingly this original opening is much longer and lines up very differently. And this one runs much longer too. Very different in places! But I prefer the focus on the Abandonment motif in the film version. Fits. Had to stretch it the same way as the other version. Interestingly different! Fits. I had to seriously trim this one here and there since it's a shorter take. But all worth it for when the strings take Monica's theme by the end. crumbs and ragoz350 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I LOVE the music but.. One of the most depressing films I've ever seen. I couldn't watch the clips😞. Sorry Holko. Anyone else feel that way? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 8 hours ago, Holko said: Oh. That might take a few years, since I wasn't planning on getting into the score until LLL/MM revisits it properly. Oh. Alright. What about Rosewood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 Don't know the score well and haven't seen the movie, I'm leaving it up for other willing restorers. Jaws'd be fun but that's for summer. HA1-2 too but those are for December. CE3K, however... hmmm. That might be next. I see Stu only restored a couple cues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Close Encounters, Superman or 1941. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I haven't had time to sit down and watch any of these recent score restore videos yet, but look forward to doing so very much and will provide feedback as much as I can To chime in to this recent conversation of what might be worthwhile doing next, I agree it makes sense to skip past any scores that have not yet received a definitive edition from MM, as you never know when one will come out and make you want to redo work already done on videos So out of the scores that have a definitive edition, might I suggest Minority Report Saving Private Ryan Far and Away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 So, from those above, the ones where I like both the movie and score are CE3K, a strong candidate, and Minority Report, which I believe @Chewy has informally already volunteered for. I love love love Superman's score, don't really want to rewatch that movie, certainly not even multiple cuts to see where edited out score bits could have gone. And I think F&A works much more brilliantly on its own - take The Land Race, JW scored the idea behind this event, this idealised American Dream culmination where anybody no matter their background are equal and have the same opportunities for getting their own land... in the movie half of it is just carts falling over in slowmo and missed sync points, it's very deflating. 1941... can be fun to listen to, less fun to watch. SPR... not for me. Sorry! The Indys and SWs will be obvious great subjects once they're done and out. I think most of JP 1 and 2 was done already separately or by Mr. Breathmask. I'll think some more, look through my library, maybe even non-JW stuff I know and love... BTTF? Didn't Stu do a lot from those? HttYD 1-2 maybe? I'd love to do HP4 when we get it from LLL. E.T. is of course the ultimate candidate... but I'm still keeping away from it a bit. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 You and Chewy could each do you own Minority Report videos, of course. The more the merrier! Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 Yeah, after Crumbs posts his own Azkaban thread, Chewy will do a 3rd one and I'll do a 4th! Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Nothing wrong with that! Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jay said: Nothing wrong with that! I dunno, I'd much prefer the idea of a collaboration, either splitting the score then looking at what the other did, or one doing it and the other providing pre-feedback when needed, over two people knowingly working on the same thing separately, then posting it, rivalling over the likes and kinda shouting over each other, while the others who'd be interested to watch now have two of the same thing to pick from with no real difference. (In actuality I brought possible scores up in a PM convo, said I'm not feeling like doing MR right now, Chewy said it'd be cool and he'd do it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Hmm, that makes sense Too bad none of you are interested in Saving Private Ryan, especially when there's only about 40 minutes of footage scored by score to begin with. It's be a quick project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 By the way, I noticed a small detail - Alternative Finding the Blue Fairy ends in the same key in which 1nd version of Journey through the Ice begins. The same goes for Final Finding the BF and 2nd version of Journey through the Ice, but the key is different. However, since final Finding and beginning of 1nd version JttIce are used in the film, the transition is not as smooth. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 Wow, that's really interesting! I have to admit splitting it into movements was a very convenient excuse to just do them in separate videos instead of one stretch, partly because the transition didn't sound too good like you say, and partly because Blue Fairy was just running longer and I had no clue where to edit the footage down, so cheating it by adding a fade to black and starting Journey in different videos was quicker and easier ragoz350 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Very interesting, Now I'd be curious to see new videos that cover each of this cue combinations :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 Hmmmmmmmmm Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Speaking of transitions (sorry), the transition between Hide and Seek and David Studies Monica seemed very strange to me. Maybe there was something cut in the movie here?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 It's certainly possible in the cut of the film Williams wrote those cues for, there was a scene that was now deleted in between those scenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 11 hours ago, JohnnyD said: Close Encounters, Superman or 1941. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Technical question. On the DIE HARD score restore, the music was replaced but He was able to keep the original soundtrack I.e. dialog and sfx. How is that done and why can't other score restores do that. I have done my own but only when music was completely dialed out in the film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, bruce marshall said: Technical question. On the DIE HARD score restore, the music was replaced but He was able to keep the original soundtrack I.e. dialog and sfx. How is that done and why can't other score restores do that. I have done my own but only when music was completely dialed out in the film First. It's done by inspecting the surround sound mix, seeing where the dialogue, sound effects and music are. If one's lucky, most of the important dialogue may be in the middle channel and the music mostly just in the side channels - but that doesn't occur that often. So then you take the channel with the least music and you put the music you wanna restore under it. A lot of times the original music still bleeds through because of how that channel was mixed, I hear it a lot in some other people's videos, and while I know it's not their fault I often find it awful to listen to. They can dial down the bleeding through music when there's no dialogue but that then makes it choppier. Second. The intention of those kinda videos is (knowing how the score was used in the film) showing how some of the unused/replaced cues would have worked if they did end up in the film just like all the others. The intention of these isolated score videos is to show the composer's intentions in the purest form of the intended context with no distractions of other sounds but the picture still synced up so you can still appreciate the sync points and the reasons behind changing moods and whatnot. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 I get that..And, I really appreciate the effort. But, without the sfx it's not as satisfying. FSM did a restore of JP. climax with JW music. Without the roaring Rex. It's nice to hear the original musical concept, for sure. You have to use your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 On 16/09/2020 at 9:26 PM, Jay said: Very interesting, Now I'd be curious to see new videos that cover each of this cue combinations :p So, as we can read in the booklet, both versions of Journey were recorded on March 7th, and both versions of Blue Fairy on March 15th, so this correspondence is almost strange. Also, did he write new ones quickly for the afternoon session or did he just come prepared with two versions on both days? Both Journeys match up somewhat differently but not badly with Stored Memories, recorded on Feb 15. Nevermind. Version one: Blue Fairy alternate, Journey part 1, Stored Memories Version two: Blue Fairy main program version, Journey part 2, Stored Memories Version three: film edit. Blue fairy main program version and orchestral excerpt switching back and forth, microedited twice, the last bit slowed down artificially. Journey pt.1 looped, switches to pt.2 midway. Journey pt.2 microedited, then looped to replace this portion of Stored Memories. crumbs and Jay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/16/2020 at 9:32 AM, bruce marshall said: I LOVE the music but.. One of the most depressing films I've ever seen. I couldn't watch the clips😞. Sorry Holko. Anyone else feel that way? It's definitely a different experience now than 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: It's definitely a different experience now than 20 years ago. Not necessarily what you're thinking, but one thing that struck me when rewatching it was the Twin Towers frozen in the ice. I actually stopped the movie and started thinking why I never heard that this one like many others also had to debate whether to include them or not, before realising it came out earlier in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Holko said: Not necessarily what you're thinking, but one thing that struck me when rewatching it was the Twin Towers frozen in the ice. I actually stopped the movie and started thinking why I never heard that this one like many others also had to debate whether to include them or not, before realising it came out earlier in the year. Good observation. The tragic backdrop of the story makes more of an impact on me now, because it feels more like "it could have happened to you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Good observation. The tragic backdrop of the story makes more of an impact on me now, because it feels more like "it could have happened to you". Hmmmm. Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Hmmmm. Can you elaborate? I connect with the story on a different level now that I'm a parent myself. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,313 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 5:50 PM, Holko said: All of these are straightforward enough. Abandoned's coda would score Gigolo Joe's first appearance but I didn't feel that was right, so I just let the fade to black stay black. Did the sheet music ever leak for A.I.? Would love to know if there's any stage direction for that coda in Abandoned in the Woods. Clearly there was a short deleted scene here that ended the sequence (probably dialogue between Teddy and David) because I can't imagine Williams scoring a black scene with that music (even though it works surprisingly well as a music-only coda for Act 1). @BrotherSound any intel here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Yea there was a sheet music leak. The OST track called "Abandoned In The Woods" is called Opening End Credits in the sheets The LLL main program track "Abandoned In The Woods (Extended Version)" is mostly 3M7 Abandoned In The Woods, but a part of it is from 3M7 New Abandoned In The Woods. IIRC, this main program track follows the exact takes used in the film, but doesn't lop off the "coda" ending like the film does. The LLL bonus track "Abandoned In The Woods (Alternate)" is mostly 3M7 New Abandoned In The Woods, but a part of it is from 3M7 Abandoned In The Woods. IIRC, this new assembly includes everything unique from either cue that wasn't in the main program version. The LLL bonus track "Abandoned In The Woods" is Opening End Credits, like the OST track. The "coda" ending is how 3M7 Abandoned In The Woods ends; 3M7 New Abandoned In The Woods's ending is heard at the end of the "Alternate" track on the LLL. We don't know what footage that "coda" ending was written for. I saw someone once say that originally it would have shown David running up the hill chasing after Monica's car, with Teddy following him, but I don't know what their source was (perhaps the novelization if there was one?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,313 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 9 hours ago, Jay said: Yea there was a sheet music leak. We don't know what footage that "coda" ending was written for. I saw someone once say that originally it would have shown David running up the hill chasing after Monica's car, with Teddy following him, but I don't know what their source was (perhaps the novelization if there was one?) I'm surprised there's no stage direction in the sheets for what the music accompanied? I've never studied one of his written scores but I thought this was a fairly common practice for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Nah that's just on the sketches, well and the modern JKMS orchestrated sheets. Back in the day when everything was handwritten they weren't going to have the orchestrators rewrite all those notes down, they had more important work to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,313 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 39 minutes ago, Jay said: Nah that's just on the sketches, well and the modern JKMS orchestrated sheets. Oh right, I wasn't sure what the leak entailed. So unless the HW sketches or film screenplay leaks, we'll probably never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 16 hours ago, Jay said: We don't know what footage that "coda" ending was written for. I saw someone once say that originally it would have shown David running up the hill chasing after Monica's car, with Teddy following him, but I don't know what their source was (perhaps the novelization if there was one?) That makes sense, in part it's kinda reminiscent of the unused ending of Biker Hounds for Teddy running up the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Loved revisiting this; well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now