Any music by JW you wish he had done differently?

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Ripoff!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

On 9/28/2020 at 8:20 AM, Arpy said:

I wish The Last Jedi had a stronger thematic core that pulled that score together the way the Trio theme and Rey's Theme did for the other two films. I just felt like TLJ was a bit all over the place.

 

The tonal shifts of The Rebellion is Reborn represent the overall experience of watching the film though.  

 

Actually, I'm not sure what a more prevalent thematic core for TLJ would even sound like.  There are so many different side plots with differing messages that it's hard to imagine one theme applying to all of them.

[GerateWohl 4,338]

39 minutes ago, E-Wan said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatikvah

 

Thanks. I didn't know that. But even then I would expect some credit like "traditional" or something like that.

 

[Arpy 4,145]

9 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

The tonal shifts of The Rebellion is Reborn represent the overall experience of watching the film though.  

 

Actually, I'm not sure what a more prevalent thematic core for TLJ would even sound like.  There are so many different side plots with differing messages that it's hard to imagine one theme applying to all of them.

Listening to the complete score is a total drag, it's directionless and maybe that's because of the multiple plot threads that are conflicting, but Rise of Skywalker is a mess and that score manages to have a more distinctive narrative throughline.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Listening to the complete score is a total drag, it's directionless and maybe that's because of the multiple plot threads that are conflicting, but Rise of Skywalker is a mess and that score manages to have a more distinctive narrative throughline.

The plot of ROS is messy but the underlying narrative themes are easier to translate into music (friendship, bad guys).  Abrams' film is also more colorful and punchy than Johnson's, which lends it to a more colorful and punchy score.  It also benefits from being the last SW film.

 

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

I guess I just find TLJ's score boring.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Ripoff!

Worse than Horner!

Worse than Zimmer!

 

John Tower Williams, ' J ' Accuse'!😜

5 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

 

 

 

Don't let John Corigliano off the hook, either.

He quoted " Rock of Ages" in ALTERED STATES without attribution!😵

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

I guess I just find TLJ's score boring.

I get the feeling John Williams didn't really care for the film but then again, maybe he just wrote the score he felt most appropriate.

[Arpy 4,145]

If anything I think he was such a slave to a temp score that it felt like a low-energy effort. Yeah, maybe he wasn't invested in the film as the first and last.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

I got the same feeling from TFA.

.( not surprising; it's practically a remake of ANH)

But, many fans loved it-!

[Arpy 4,145]

41 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I got the same feeling from TFA.

.( not surprising; it's practically a remake of ANH)

But, many fans loved it-!

Take that to the appropriate Star Wars Disenchantment Thread!

[GerateWohl 4,338]

From the last JEDI I prefered to hear the FYC-version. It contained much less of the old themes. If there is a musical identity of the score then I rather heard it there than in the OST album. No Yoda's Theme in the finale for example. Anyway, the end of the album, The Spark, The Last Jedi, Peace and Purpose are really great. I still look forward to a publication of the complete score for the sequels anyway.

[Smaug The Iron 510]

 

 

 

 

He was not invested?

[Fabulin 3,510]

6 hours ago, Arpy said:

If anything I think he was such a slave to a temp score that it felt like a low-energy effort. Yeah, maybe he wasn't invested in the film as the first and last.

Low energy effort? The score to The Last Jedi would give many a great composer a run for their money!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

He was humming the score to his orchestrators.

[Arpy 4,145]

2 hours ago, Albus Percival Wulfric said:

Low energy effort? The score to The Last Jedi would give many a great composer a run for their money!

I'll amend my statement: by Williams' standards, not the lesser composers.

 

Also, I love pieces from the score, I just find it doesn't have a cohesive narrative structure that I find makes the other scores more interesting when you can hear the progression and evolution of certain themes.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I wish he'd ditch most of the church music he regularly uses.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Jerry would have been wonderful, if not possessed to electronics. Good bless John left that shit. 

[artguy360 1,843]

Low energy is not how I would describe the score to TLJ at all. The music is full of propulsive energy and surprising, strong musical moments than neither TFA or ROS produced. From the bombing sequence in the opening to Lesson One, the action music of The Supremacy, A New Alliance, Holdo's Sacrifice, and of course, The Spark, low energy is completely the wrong phrase to summarize this score regardless of how closely a temp track was followed or how lacking it is in a strong central theme. The music is full of energy.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

I think he means ' creative energy.

Not fast tempi.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

On 9/29/2020 at 11:23 PM, Arpy said:

Take that to the appropriate Star Wars Disenchantment Thread!

I thought you were joking!

But, someone just bumped the thread!😳😜

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

On 10/1/2020 at 8:41 PM, artguy360 said:

Low energy is not how I would describe the score to TLJ at all. The music is full of propulsive energy and surprising, strong musical moments than neither TFA or ROS produced. 

Nah

Even TLJ's "singular moments" don't compare with the best of TFA and TROS

[Demodex 557]

Of the ST scores, TLJ is my favorite by far and TROS is the one I never listen to. 

 

That's how I feel about the actual films, too. 

 

I still don't remember what the new themes in TROS even sound like. 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

To answer the thread title, all the Mickey Mousing and cutesiness in The Last Jedi.

[Seth 67]

I wish the Star Wars sequel trilogy also had brief trumpet solos like the first 6 scores did. I also really missed the airy synth textures that he used to such great effect in the prequel trilogy. 

 

The main Schindler's List theme doesn't sit well with me. It draws too much attention to itself and verges on melodrama. I think the material developed in Remembrances would have been a better defining identity for the score.

22 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

To answer the thread title, all the Mickey Mousing and cutesiness in The Last Jedi.

I get what you're saying, but I was really impressed with how closely he was able to follow the cuts and shifting action in the film. The Last Jedi was definitely a grower for me and I think it might be my favorite score of the sequel trilogy (though I'm not sure how much of that is the merits of the music and how much is the fact that it's actually audible in the mix and reasonably intact.)

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

On 9/22/2020 at 6:52 PM, bruce marshall said:

I always wished he had saved the "flying " music from SUPE and used it in E.T.

 

This is actually not a bad idea when it comes to the form of the piece, but the issue lies in Superman's Flight following some clear romantic/relational harmonic theory, while E.T. Flight has an extremely unyielding, expansive harmonic structure, best capturing the sensation of pure 'astonishment' like the sensation of your brain exploding. I don't know if Elliott and E.T's relationship was mature and romanticized enough, but still these are good ideas for reinterpreting the underlying current of the plot.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

5 minutes ago, Oomoog the Ecstatic said:

 

This is actually not a bad idea when it comes to the form of the piece, but the issue lies in Superman's Flight following some clear romantic/relational harmonic theory, while E.T. Flight has an extremely expansive harmonic structure, best capturing the sensation of pure 'astonishment' like the sensation of your brain exploding. I don't think Elliott and E.T's relationship was deep and romantic enough to be captured by the former piece. Still, these are good ideas for reinterpreting the underlying current of the plot.

For me, it's the melody.

SUPE uses an upward, stepping  styled melody with wonderful chord changes ( major seventh iirc).

The E.T. theme uses the leap of a sixth , also present in the much warmer " E.T and Me " cue. But, it's a good, not great melody. It works better in quiet moments like when the flower comes back to life.

 

 

God, i love that film ( and score)😍!

 

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Wow I think you might be right. I see it more in the harmony than the melody. While the surprise lies in the fact that E.T. can fly, he could've come up with a Superman variation that worked perfectly for that or fade into the surprise, ie. after the first arpeggio of the melody when the 8th of the melody flutters a half step, is a little too thematic like a main theme / heroic march, compared to orchestrating a melody as a momentary atmosphere like E.T.'s. Easy fix.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

To answer the thread title, all the Mickey Mousing and cutesiness in The Last Jedi.

Hard to do when every beat in the story is a comedic beat.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

@bruce marshall

 

 

 

1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

God, i love that film ( and score)😍!

 

Which film do you mean?

[bruce marshall 1,315]

15 minutes ago, Oomoog the Ecstatic said:

@bruce marshall

 

 

 

Which film do you mean?

E.T.

but

I'm a big fan of SUPE.

The score is top three JW; with E.T. and JFK.

Thank you!😍😍😍😍😊😊😊😊

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 hour ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Hard to do when every beat in the story is a comedic beat.

 

There's no excuse for moments like this!

 

 

 

 

 

(not mentioning the mickey mouse moment like 15 seconds before this)

 

Get the hell outta here, John!

 

I've come to terms, after years of fighting it, that The Last Jedi is one of my least favorite John Williams scores, ever. All the Escapes and Canto Bights just can't redeem it in the end. The Post roasts this score alive like a porg......And after listening to BFG for the first time these past few days, it kicks Force Awakens' ass, too. What happened on these first two sequel scores?

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Agreed except for the part about The Force Awakens, which rules

[Nick Parker 3,040]

5 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Agreed except for the part about The Force Awakens, which rules

 

I like Force Awakens, but compared to BFG it's so flat and monochrome. I'm shocked by how I slept on this one for four years.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

3 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

For me, it's the melody.

SUPE uses an upward, stepping  styled melody with wonderful chord changes ( major seventh iirc).

The E.T. theme uses the leap of a sixth , also present in the much warmer " E.T and Me " cue. But, it's a good, not great melody. It works better in quiet moments like when the flower comes back to life.

 

 

God, i love that film ( and score)😍!

 

The build up to the take off is so magnificent- I love that piano* figure- that I really can't ' complain' that  the flying music isn't from SUPERMAN.

Those two films and scores.....damn , they are....they are.....

How do you put into words , "magic"?

 

*sounds like two pianos playing simultaneously in octaves

 

 

 

 

 

R

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

I like Force Awakens, but compared to BFG it's so flat and monochrome. I'm shocked by how I slept on this one for four years.

BFG has colorful orchestrations and some very nice dramatic moments but overall, the "narrative" of the score is a bit underwhelming to the more tight and purposeful TFA.

 

And TFA has more bangers

[Nick Parker 3,040]

2 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

BFG has colorful orchestrations and some very nice dramatic moments but overall, the "narrative" of the score is a bit underwhelming to the more tight and purposeful TFA.

 

And TFA has more bangers

 

Your point about the narrative elements throughout the score is valid, but I like the standalone quality a lot of BFG's tracks have, almost like a "normal" album.

 

As for bangers?

 

https://open.spotify.com/track/3DaR5SUVfmN9lLUl00Y16B?si=qrk1biWkRhq-fr78B0wajw

 

 

 

And this?

 

 

https://open.spotify.com/track/3kgBlHlZ3469aCYhSfc3QQ?si=fWGnc-yUTjGaevHRj0_5Tg

 

Holy @#$%.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

 

There's no excuse for moments like this!

 

 

 

 

 

(not mentioning the mickey mouse moment like 15 seconds before this)

 

Get the hell outta here, John!

 

I've come to terms, after years of fighting it, that The Last Jedi is one of my least favorite John Williams scores, ever. All the Escapes and Canto Bights just can't redeem it in the end. The Post roasts this score alive like a porg......And after listening to BFG for the first time these past few days, it kicks Force Awakens' ass, too. What happened on these first two sequel scores?

 

And you want MORE of this ....dreck?!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

2 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

And you want MORE of this ....dreck?!

 

Who are you talking to?

[bruce marshall 1,315]

1 minute ago, Nick Parker said:

 

Who are you talking to?

The fans who are clamoring for expansions of these scores.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Just now, bruce marshall said:

The fans who are clamoring for expansions of these scores.

 

Don't deny us our Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker alternate scores!

[bruce marshall 1,315]

As a one time SW fanatic, i just don't get the appeal of the latter films ( and scores).

 

On 10/1/2020 at 6:57 PM, bruce marshall said:

I think he means ' creative energy.

Not fast tempi.

After watching those clips, can you blame him if he wasn't particularly " inspired"?

[Richard Penna 3,671]

4 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

As a one time SW fanatic, i just don't get the appeal of the latter films ( and scores).

 

After watching those clips, can you blame him if he wasn't particularly " inspired"?

 

Then phew, no one's forcing you to buy eventual expansions. Stop moaning about others wanting them.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Now I get it! This "bruce marshall" must be Thor's additional account!

[Richard Penna 3,671]

Nah, Thor has a maturity that bruce could only dream of.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Now I get it! This "bruce marshall" must be Thor's additional account!

I could care less about expanded SW .

If people want to waste their lives pursuing mediocrity, be my guest

10 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

Don't deny us our Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker alternate scores!

I wouldn't dare deprive DICK Penna of his life's dream.

[Holko 9,499]

6 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Nah, Thor has a maturity that bruce could only dream of.

 

9 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I wouldn't dare deprive DICK Penna of his life's dream.

This couldn't be more perfect.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

Can bruce's parents come and pick him up now please?

 

(please, someone tell me he's not as old as he says he is)

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

What does he say? 12?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Bruce, you're in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look down and see a Blu Ray disc of Prometheus. You reach down and flip the disc on its other side. The disc lays on this side, its cinematic mastery baking in the hot sun, trying to let the world know of its masterpiece status, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why is that, Bruce?