crumbs 14,315 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Brundlefly said: The only thing from the presentation which I do not understand is: Why did MM join Bodies in the Water with Ray and Rachel - these are two pieces which simply do not belong together, no matter how short the first one is. I think Mike (or JW) just has a preference to avoid short cues as standalone tracks (in this case, 41 seconds), especially if it can be combined with the following or preceding cue with sufficient silence in between. He did that very effectively on POA to avoid the film score having 60+ tracks. The implication in the recent WOTW interview was that JW reviews the tracklist for these expansions and certain things trigger "red flags." Mike said too many alternates in a row would be flagged (so those were mixed all around the album). I'm guessing lots of short tracks (or an excessive number of tracks for the film score) would be another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 13 hours ago, Jay said: "The Entrance To Boston (Alternate)" = the original 6M2 Entrance to Boston {this is how Williams first wrote and recorded this cue} I also believe this track contains an alternate performance of the ending (starting at 3:15). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 7 hours ago, crumbs said: I think Mike (or JW) just has a preference to avoid short cues as standalone tracks (in this case, 41 seconds), especially if it can be combined with the following or preceding cue with sufficient silence in between. I understand that, but sometimes it seems like, when there are four short cues one after another, MM just makes two pairs even if there's a better, more musical solution - Surveying Wreckage / Watch the Lighting / Bodies in the Water would have been a coherent track of almost three minutes that would end on a shockingly high note. It just seems like these would have had a more natural flow, given that you find the right spot for a transition. At the same time, Ray and Rachel could have been a standalone track which it is definitely designed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 I was never really aware of how great The Ferry Scene was, and when I saw the film it really didn't leave much of an impression on me. Back when the film came out I really wasn't in the mood for the oppressive, percussion and brass but nowadays (whether the world has shaped me in this way?) I find it's such a great track that has more going on than I previously thought. It's not mindless chaotic noise, it's layered and has a great structure to it with sync points and some really score-defining moments. The choir crescendo and then that dark fanfare that follows are amazing. Chewy and ins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 I have to admit, it served well as lead single (= second track) on the OST. Chewy and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 29 minutes ago, Arpy said: I was never really aware of how great The Ferry Scene was, and when I saw the film it really didn't leave much of an impression on me. You were probably too busy looking at the ferry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Plus, I think the score was kind of mixed under the SFX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Chewy said: I also believe this track contains an alternate performance of the ending (starting at 3:15). That's right, I forgot! I believe Mike heard a different enough performance when listening to every take and thought it made sense to include it in the alt for us to hear too. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jay said: That's right, I forgot! I believe Mike heard a different enough performance when listening to every take and thought it made sense to include it in the alt for us to hear too. Great decision in my opinion! I love this alternate take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 So my CD still hasn't arrived after 3 weeks. No tracking updates at all in that time on either side of the Atlantic. I e-mailed Intrada and they'll send me a replacement along with my next order that I'll be placing tonight/tomorrow. Hope this works! I'm absolutely dying to hear this album. It is one of my grails. Karol Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,829 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 If I don't buy this release directly from Intrada, will I be able to get a replacement if I get a defective cd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Yea filmmusic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 I am finally about to listen to this. Can't express how excited I am. I purposefully did not pull out the original album to let the expansion be what it is. Is it weird that the alternates are the biggest draw for me? The original album was great. LATER: I forgot how adult this score made me feel for listening to it in 2005. Was not what I expected at all the same year as Sith and Memoirs, both of which I adored. I self-congratulated so much about it It's really taking me back Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 First round; listened to the OST since I really don't know this score well, only seen the movie 1.5 times (that first watch on HBO GO with my Internet is the half, it was so bad and low quality) and heard the OST a couple years ago on Spotify in one of those terrible regional warbly shit quality variants. So, I didn't hate it! I actually even liked the big Escape from the Basket assembly. However I did think it was weird to include it after Return to Boston which already arrives on an almost triumphant tone. And I think the opening really stumbles too - Ferry Scene's fine as a bang action opener, but Reaching the Country so obviously feels like a second act escalation cue, why is that at track 3? It so obviously doesn't belong there and we haven't even had a proper tone establisher yet. It's like putting The Old Death Star at track 4 and Destiny of a Jedi at 6. They weren't written to fit for that early a stage, they're not establishers but push in new directions, why put them in the first third? The booklet is printed nicely, the case is good, disc 1 is unscratched and seemed to rip just fine (even if EAC said it can't find it in the AccurateRip database but that was the case for httyd too), and the surface of the discs is very nicely printed too, shiny with the letters rising out of it, not just a matte coat over the whole thing like it often happens, the green tinted Minority Report discs being the worst example I can think of. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Holko said: Ferry Scene's fine as a bang action opener, but Reaching the Country so obviously feels like a second act escalation cue, why is that at track 3? It so obviously doesn't belong there and we haven't even had a proper tone establisher yet. It's like putting The Old Death Star at track 4 and Destiny of a Jedi at 6. They weren't written to fit for that early a stage, they're not establishers but push in new directions, why put them in the first third? Put your best material first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 9 hours ago, Holko said: and heard the OST a couple ears ago Do you regularly replace your ears? Does it improve your ability to enjoy music? Jurassic Shark and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 It's a necessity when the old ears got tainted by HanZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 typo fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 @Jay Do you plan on updating your spreadsheet soon? Just so I can decide whether or not to hold off on making my personal edit for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, Smeltington said: @Jay Do you plan on updating your spreadsheet soon? Just so I can decide whether or not to hold off on making my personal edit for now. Request seconded! Not knowing this score well, it'd be a great help in wrapping my head around the alternates, comparing and picking, and doing my edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 I just listen to the CD. blondheim and Smeltington 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 You're crazy! That would never work! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,363 Posted October 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2020 There's only 4 cues with alternates in the whole score. For 3 of those, the alts are clearly labeled with the same names as main program tracks Prologue and Opening Montage / Prologue and Opening Montage (Alternate) The Entrance To Boston / The Entrance To Boston (Alternate) Epilogue (Film Version) / Epilogue (Alternate) For the 4th cue that has alts, there were 5 versions recorded "Defeat and Reunion" [0:00-0:39] main program {partial} / "The Separation of The Family" OST program {complete} "Boston Street Finale (Alternate No. 1)" "Boston Street Finale (Alternate No. 2)" "Boston Street Finale" "Defeat and Reunion" [0:39-end] Spielberg's final film edit used the alien opening from the first version (the only time the alien opening part was recorded), then 48 seconds of the horn + piano one, then 41 seconds of the C Major piano one, then back to the ending of the Horn and Piano one. No one could decide what worked best! "Defeat and Reunion" 0:00-0:39 "Boston Street Finale" 0:00-0:48 "Defeat and Reunion" 1:27-2:08 "Boston Street Finale" 1:45-end That leaves "Before The Escape", which is something Williams wrote specifically for the album to lead into "Driving Away From Trouble", though that instead of simply seguing into the whole cue as intended, the OST track got turned into a a weird suite of tracked and repeated music Trope, Edmilson, Smeltington and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 25 minutes ago, Jay said: That leaves "Before The Escape", which is something Williams wrote specifically for the album to lead into "Driving Away From Trouble", and does so in OST track "Escape From The City" In "Escape from the City", I do hear the material from "Before the Escape", but it segues into a passage that's different from the material in the opening of "Driving Away from Trouble." Is that segment tracked in from somewhere else on the OST? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, Smeltington said: In "Escape from the City", I do hear the material from "Before the Escape", but it segues into a passage that's different from the material in the opening of "Driving Away from Trouble." Is that segment tracked in from somewhere else on the OST? Isn't that just the same segment as what we hear towards the end of that cue? In other words, 0:29-0:59 being exactly the same as 2:25-3:08? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Exactly right. Isn't that mentioned in the Google Doc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 It is actually. I just checked. Ignoring the fact we hear it twice, it is actually a pretty neat edit. My replacement copy has shipped, by the way (along with two new releases). Hope it gets here this time! Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 I just realized it was an edit the other day, and was dumbfounded because it’s so clever. Normally I’d hate repeating music like that, but it works so damn well. Makes an otherwise schizophrenic cue into a functional concert piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Well that's... quite the detour. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 On 10/27/2020 at 10:01 PM, Jay said: There's only 4 cues with alternates in the whole score. The ending of Probing the Basement definitely has a different take on the OST, and I wonder if there are more similar minor differences between film version takes and the ones chosen for the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 4 hours ago, crumbs said: Well that's... quite the detour. That's happened to me before. Don't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 12 hours ago, Jay said: "Defeat and Reunion" [0:00-0:39] main program {partial} / "The Separation of The Family" OST program {complete} "Boston Street Finale (Alternate No. 1)" "Boston Street Finale (Alternate No. 2)" "Boston Street Finale" "Defeat and Reunion" [0:39-end] Lining them all up one after the other is quite interesting! "This piano is too sad, try strings." "Not emotional enough, go bigger." "Actually this is too cheesy, let's add the piano back and tone it down a bit". "You know what, just go back to the solo piano." Jay and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 On 10/28/2020 at 3:12 AM, Chewy said: The ending of Probing the Basement definitely has a different take on the OST, and I wonder if there are more similar minor differences between film version takes and the ones chosen for the OST. IIRC, the OST version is just edited down at the end. I remember comparing both after I got the new edition and thinking the main program ending sounds sooo much better than the OST ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Holko said: Lining them all up one after the other is quite interesting! "This piano is too sad, try strings." "Not emotional enough, go bigger." "Actually this is too cheesy, let's add the piano back and tone it down a bit". "You know what, just go back to the solo piano." You can see why things apparently got a little tense and people cleared the room 😂 crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Do we know what order the 5 versions were recorded in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 15 hours ago, Taikomochi said: I just realized it was an edit the other day, and was dumbfounded because it’s so clever. Normally I’d hate repeating music like that, but it works so damn well. Makes an otherwise schizophrenic cue into a functional concert piece. Maybe it would make sense to use the OST track in the main program of my edit, then. I guess we have to assume that the album intro was written with the intention that it would be used the way it ended up on the OST, seguing into that edited material, instead of seguing into the opening of "Driving Away from Trouble"? Anyone else figured out a good way to add "Before the Escape" back in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 On 10/28/2020 at 11:15 AM, crumbs said: Do we know what order the 5 versions were recorded in? I listed them in the recorded order. There would have been no reason for me to list them in any other order On 10/28/2020 at 11:22 AM, Smeltington said: Maybe it would make sense to use the OST track in the main program of my edit, then. I guess we have to assume that the album intro was written with the intention that it would be used the way it ended up on the OST, seguing into that edited material, instead of seguing into the opening of "Driving Away from Trouble"? Anyone else figured out a good way to add "Before the Escape" back in? Nah, it sounds fine edited into into beginning of Driving Away From Trouble and that was definitely the intention: I dunno why he altered his intentions for the OST album and made that weird edited/tracked/looped suite instead. Personally I think the intro (either alone, or edited into the cue) is prime bonus track material, not main program material. In the actual film, The Intersection Scene -> What Happened -> Driving Away From Trouble is one continuous 11 1/2 minutes of music (which is Williams intention too, as far as we know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Thankfully, unique inserts almost always work as main program material for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_Tubist 6 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 On 10/25/2020 at 7:39 AM, Brundlefly said: It's here - minor ripping issues. Does anyone else find the bass too beefed up and the recording very hissy? Have just received this CD, and I must admit I'm finding some tracks are so hissy that it's incredibly distracting, and is making the whole experience a bit of a let-down. It seems to come and go, but notable examples come very early on, e.g. suddenly from 00:22 in CD1, Track 1 (Prologue), stopping around 00:41 but then coming back between 01:18-01:28. Similarly, track 4 (What happened?) is almost unlistenable, with very loud hiss from 02:27, dropping off a bit around 02:33 but then coming back at 02:46. I haven't got much further than this as it's somewhat spoiling the experience. As nobody else seems to have commented on it, I wonder if it means I have one of the defective discs that some have mentioned, although I can't see any particularly obvious scratches. Anybody else hearing this hiss? No doubt I'm not allowed to post my ripped FLAC file here, but if there were some permitted way for someone to listen to my ripped file, that would be much appreciated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Are there pops and crackles as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I just listened to the timestamps you pointed out with the volume cranked and do not hear "hissing" or anything else unusual. There are some synth sounds in most of your timestamps, that are supposed to be there. So either you're confusing synth music with "hiss", you received a defective disc, or your ripping software is screwed up Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I don't think any manufacturing defect from the pressing pant will introduce hiss to the audio signal. It must be something weird with the flac encoder or something. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I think I know what he means but it sounds like part of the choir or certainly inherent to the recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, UK_Tubist said: I haven't got much further than this as it's somewhat spoiling the experience. As nobody else seems to have commented on it, I wonder if it means I have one of the defective discs that some have mentioned, although I can't see any particularly obvious scratches. It's maybe your headphones, mine are very precise in the higher frequencies, so the hiss is only noticable, when I use them instead of my stereo system. The transition between Bodies in the Water and Ray and Rachel is particularly odd, because the hiss of the former cue suddenly stops, which is very jarring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_Tubist 6 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: It's maybe your headphones, mine are very precise in the higher frequencies, so the hiss is only noticable, when I use them instead of my stereo system. The transition between Bodies in the Water and Ray and Rachel is particularly odd, because the hiss of the former cue suddenly stops, which is very jarring. I wasn't listening through headphones, so I don't think it is that, although when I did switch to headphones it seemed worse! I have listened to the sound clip of track 1 on the Intrada website and notice the same kind of hiss, and so on reflection maybe it isn't a problem with either my ripped file or my copy; I guess it is just there in the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I think you're hearing a synth line in the music and confusing it with hiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Or the synth has hiss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Or the hiss has synth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Or the hiss IS synth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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