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WAR OF THE WORLDS (2005) 2CD edition from Intrada Records 2020


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Here.   I'm over the moon!   Karol

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2020/10/12/war-of-the-worlds-podcast/   Also available as a YouTube video:   Hope you'll like it, gents!

I received my copy almost a week ago but didn't get to share my thoughts on it.   It has been one of my holy grails. I really dislike the OST which makes the score seem meandering and aimles

17 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

And if another Hook comes out, I'm presuming it could at least be a 3 disc set (i think?), which would have a bunch of bonus tracks.

 

I'm not a scholar on Hook but the LLL had 20 minutes of free space on those 2 discs. I think the OST has a couple of alternates which weren't on the LLL (which MM would port across), then there's unreleased inserts that weren't included (so there's another ~3 alternate tracks). Not sure if that would all fit into the spare 20 minutes.

 

And then there's the unknown, unreleased material that LLL found back in 2012 but weren't allowed to include for whatever reason, but they hoped would "someday" be released. We've speculated these might be demos for the abandoned Peter Pan musical, which formed the basis of JW's themes for the film. There's no way of knowing how much material that is but presumably it would bump any new expansion to 3 discs (assuming Mike can convince whoever to include it, whatever it is :lol:)

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On 12/17/2020 at 4:03 PM, Jay said:

My favorite assembly of bonus tracks that works as its own mini album yet is coming out next year and I can't wait for everyone to hear it.  It's a masterpiece of album production.


What an intriguing tease. I know you cannot give any real hints, but answer me this. Is it a release of one of Maestro John Williams' scores?

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"The Intersection Scene" contains more choir, less choir, or different choir in various spots compared to the film version

 

"Probing The Basement" features a alternate take at the very end

 

EDIT: "The Confrontation with Ogilvy" contains an alternate section different from the film version of "Red Planet"

 

"The Separation of the Family" contains the first version of the street reunion not available anywhere else.

 

"Epilogue" has different edits points than the film version

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7 minutes ago, Jay said:

"The Separation of the Family" contains the first version of the street reunion not available anywhere else.

 

That's it, unless you care about the slightly different alternate take ending of Probing the Basement, or the slightly different edit points of Epilogue, or a version of The Intersection Scene without choir

Thanks, and the Morgan Freeman tracks of course.

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15 minutes ago, Jay said:

the slightly different edit points of Epilogue

I remember comparing the tracks from both discs and they were 100% equal, not sure why Mike labelled it "Film Version" on disc 1.

 

16 minutes ago, Holko said:

Red Planet has a different segment, eh, @Chewy?

Yes, several differences: a 2-second performance difference (disc 1 - at 2:34), a choir that starts later on the film score cue (disc 1 - at 3:02) and an artificially stretched, longer by 1 second section right before the end of the cue on the OST.

 

Knowing all those differences, I understand why Mike used the original album master for that cue on the new release.

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2 hours ago, Chewy said:

I remember comparing the tracks from both discs and they were 100% equal, not sure why Mike labelled it "Film Version" on disc 1.

 

I can't say I noticed a difference either, but that's supposed to be why it's labeled Film Version - it's similar to the Jurassic Park end credits situation - same takes, different edit points ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

2 hours ago, Chewy said:

Yes, several differences: a 2-second performance difference (disc 1 - at 2:34), a choir that starts later on the film score cue (disc 1 - at 3:02) and an artificially stretched, longer by 1 second section right before the end of the cue on the OST.

 

Comparing 2:32-2:37 of the Intrada version against 3:11-3:15 of the OST version, I don't really see/hear a difference.  Can you explain better what you mean?

 

Comparing 3:03-3:19 of the Intrada version against 3:41-3:58 of the OST version - you're right! The OST uses more choir!  Cool!

 

Comparing the end, the OST is certainly artificially stretched as you say - the music editors were constantly mucking with frames to fit a changing picture (I think Mike talks about this in the liners) and some of that frame-fudging must have carried over to the OST.  Mike built the main program from the original un-fudged-with performances.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Comparing 2:32-2:37 of the Intrada version against 3:11-3:15 of the OST version, I don't really see/hear a difference.  Can you explain better what you mean?

I created little clips with both versions so you know which section I'm talking about. It's indeed very subtle so you might need multiple listens to notice it.

 

It almost sounds like different notes are playing. The brass on the left channel on the OST also can't be heard that much on the Intrada version. 

 

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I dunno, sounds like the Intrada is a natural performance and the OST version is just some digital trickery they did for god knows what reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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Let's see: On the Intrada, the pitch is lower than on the OST

On the Intrada, the muted brass in the left channel is a lot more prominent than on the OST

The timpani performance is different between the two.

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I commend the fact that many expansions (and MM ones in particular) can generally be enjoyed as a 'presentation', but I just think that with the level of attention these scores get from this community, checking out individual/personal highlights, and figuring out where things are, is only natural when we first receive an expansion.

 

I always like to find those handful of personal unreleased highlights, see whether there are any 'unpleasant surprises' in the form of mixing differences/alternate takes, and just get my head around how it's structured, and then, after all that, I can start listening in a more musical fashion.

 

Quite honestly, there's also the factor that particularly with bonus/alternates, etc, some of those just aren't that interesting to begin with (sometimes there's a damn good reason why a cue was revised), and it's fun to comb over those and compare them to their counterparts, and decide which ones to keep.

 

My 'custom edits' are 99% of the time just the main program, and snipping out a few bonus tracks if I don't feel I need them. But I do feel I need that analysis first, before I can enjoy listening to it. Sorry :)

 

(nothing to do with delayed releasing of spreadsheets BTW - I know they take time to make anyway)

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2 hours ago, Jay said:
  • 12. Refugee Status (Extended Version)** • 4:12
  • 0:00-2:00 = 4M4    Refugee Status

 

Jay, are you aware of any notation on the sheets about what JW actually intended this cue for?

 

There's no room for it in the final cut between MB Sc103 Woods Walk and 4M5 New Robbie Joins The Fight so presumably it's some type of unused Woods Walk re-score? Or perhaps written for the big deleted Camelot sequence, which took place between these scenes?

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Interesting! I thought the ending of Refugee Status would fit nicely with the scene of Robbie running up the hill, it's stylistically similar to Woods Walk. Fantastic musical instinct from Spielberg to track Woods Walk over the sequence; couldn't fit the film more perfectly.

 

Did either of you attempt a score restore using Refugee Status?

 

Shame the sheets never leaked with notations/descriptions, to help with syncing the music.

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The sketch of Refugee Status says "clothes falling" at the beginning and "battle begins" at the end. 

 

There is a line of dialogue during this part of the film where a soldier says "Our mission, Lieutenant, is to delay their advance until those refugees get to safety.  Now, keep firing!" so perhaps just that, or more deleted dialogue, explains the cue title. 

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No one really knows for sure what happened. Some people said ILM couldn't finish the VFX in time, so it was abandoned to focus on other sequences. Others say it was completely finished then cut for unknown reasons. Would love to know at what point in the process it was cut, and whether Williams wrote any early sketches.

 

I'm not sure anything would've been sufficiently violent in the sequence to push the film into R-rated territory though. The rest of the film is pretty gnarly as it stands.

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Great work on the spreadsheet @Jay!

 

10 hours ago, Jay said:

19. Red Planet** • 3:56

  • 5M6    {untitled}, with the correct film takes in two spots (one of which uses less choir than OST version)


It seems like the movie uses the same takes/performances as the OST:

 

 

Some microedits that appear on the OST can also be heard in the movie (the one at 3:00, OST time). That could mean some sections of the OST actually come from the film stems.

 

And by the way, sorry in advance for pointing out that mistake again :D:

 

10 hours ago, Jay said:

10. The Separation Of The Family • 2:37

  • 6M3    Reunion In Boston, everything after 0:39 is the 1st version of the "street reunion" not available anywhere else on the LLL Intrada set

 

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I wonder if it's related to the messy elements that Mike had to clean up? Where all the various microedits had to be manually restored before he could assemble the film score.

 

Maybe the OST was assembled using the same ProTools masters, but after some microedits/artificial extensions had been made (and whoever assembled the OST master in 2005 didn't bother to restore every edit).

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6 hours ago, Chewy said:

Great work on the spreadsheet @Jay!

 

Thanks!

 

Quote

It seems like the movie uses the same takes/performances as the OST

 

Some microedits that appear on the OST can also be heard in the movie (the one at 3:00, OST time). That could mean some sections of the OST actually come from the film stems.

 

Interesting!  It does seem like they just slapped a pro tools dump of the final film edit onto the OST album; Mike must have gone back to the original recording without film edits and late take changes for the main program.  It's probably the approved version of the cue that was supposed to be used originally - which version does the session leak have?

 

I wonder if that choir section is tracked in from another cue?

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33 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's probably the approved version of the cue that was supposed to be used originally - which version does the session leak have?

The session leak uses the same take as the OST and the film, for both those two notes and the choir.

 

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

I wonder if that choir section is tracked in from another cue?

Doubt it, I can't see where it would come from.

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2 minutes ago, Chewy said:

The session leak uses the same take as the OST and the film, for both those two notes and the choir.

 

Does it have the Psycho-esque bit microedited out of the OST version?

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9 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Does it have the Psycho-esque bit microedited out of the OST version?

Yes, the length between the Intrada track and the sessions track is the same:

image.png

 

EDIT: not exactly the same length, some performance edit points are different. Basically, the sessions track is just the OST performance without the microedit.

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An interesting difference is the sessions used the film opening to The Ferry Scene which seems to be tracked from later in the cue. Both versions of The Ferry Scene on the Intrada have the same opening.

 

 

Just to confirm @Jay, the film version was tracked here?

 

Further evidence the session leak came from edited ProTools sessions, FWIW.

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