Is anyone else tired of that Emmy-Grammy-Oscar narrative?

[Fabulin 3,510]

Wherever Williams or his music are presented or described, there is an immediate "justification" by mentioning the awards he has won, as if that mattered, not his actual music. Or as if the writers personally didn't like his music, but excused themselves with the verdicts of others. Everyone and their dog seem to do that: from newspapers to music publishers to freelance journalists. I am not sure if that is even healthy in the long run. 

 

On the other hand,

1. the acquaintance of the journalists with him or his music is usually not very deep, so

2.  they probably base their articles on the articles of others, and

3. nobody is expected to read more than one article about John Williams in a lifetime anyway.

 

Or maybe that's only because he is still alive. I can imagine newspapers writing in a similar fashion about the winners of Prix de Rome for composition in the 19th century, whereas post-mortem, awards stop being mentioned. Nowadays I've seen other contemporary composers described through their awards, but with Williams it seems to be especially notorious.

 

Do these mentions succeed in bringing a person closer to the audience? They are at least probably better than some patronizing alternatives about plebeians singing his tunes in the shower (although not always mutually exclusive in one article!), but there is something off-putting about template journalism - at least to me.

 

I know it's not even a "first world" problem, but a 1% of the 1% problem, yet... it just reminds me of all these fraud award shows every time, and I am curious if anyone else is bothered by it too.

 

What do you think?

[Thor 7,466]

Sure, I agree with you. I very rarely use that kind of narrative in my own writings. But one has to use those awards for something, I guess.

[Arpy 4,145]

Because whether or not you personally think they (should) hold meaning, they do have a certain prestige to them. These awards are to say that the community to which these artists belong recognises their work. 

 

Personally, I don't put too much stock into the Oscars or most other ceremonies but those who've won or been nominated have been appreciative of that recognition and I won't take that away from them.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

In the words of the great Bilbo Baggins, "It's just a bit of fun!"

[Smeltington 1,436]

If you're writing an article about JW for normies, then talking about awards, as well as the usual list of famous movies he scored, answers the implied audience question of "why should I care." So it makes sense, although it gets mind numbing to read over and over for you and me.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Are you saying we should find something better to do?

[Smeltington 1,436]

No, there's no higher calling than being a JWFan.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

1 hour ago, Smeltington said:

If you're writing an article about JW for normies, then talking about awards, as well as the usual list of famous movies he scored, answers the implied audience question of "why should I care." So it makes sense, although it gets mind numbing to read over and over for you and me.

 

Same thing with the Raiders March/Schindlers List stories, and just about anything JW says in the average PR fluff piece. Most people have never heard them and would find them mildly interesting. It's only the crowd that frequent these forums that are tired of them.

[KK 3,307]

I don't understand the problem really. PR fluff pieces and mass media often spend half the writing listing the celebrity's laurels, because that sells better. But obviously any real nuanced piece will look deeper. It's not a Williams problem, it's just Hollywood. The same goes for any actor, director, writer, etc. It's like expecting your news from Jimmy Kimmel.

 

The larger cultural attitude is about reducing people/icons to titles and achievements. But there are obviously other places you can look for something more.

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

You are my soul brother.

I NEVER read press releases because that is all they write...

" Emmy winning...Oscar nominated...." Blah blah bla.*

I'm proud of the fact that I have never mentioned ANY awards In any film or music piece I've ever published . I bet I'm the only person who can interview a multi-Grammy winner and ignore this 'feat'. It never even enters my thinking.

Why? Because an artist's work speaks for itself. You don't need an award to confirm it's value.

Things like Oscars were created as PROMTIONAL devices, I.e. advertising. That's why you hafta use the copyright symbol when referring to it.

Ignore the hype.

 

 

*Watertower are the absolute worst!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

2 hours ago, KK said:

It's not a Williams problem

 

It is a Williams problem because it takes forever to list all his Oscar nominations!

[bruce marshall 1,315]

I also 'like ' how they choose films...

" John Williams ( HARRY POTTER ..., STAR WARS, THE BOOK THIEF) composer....."

[Bayesian 1,359]

Almost every profession develops ways to recognize high achievement. It just happens that, in the entertainment industry, all the awards are widely familiar to the public, but it doesn’t reduce the fact that winning an award (when it’s deserved) is something all practitioners would enjoy receiving. That goes for Emmys, Grammys, what have you. (Exceptions made for useless awards like the Teen Choice Awards [is that even still a thing?])

 

In JW’s case, the listing of his achievements next to his name is the best and easiest way to inform the reader that JW is an exceptionally gifted practitioner of his craft who has been duly recognized as such by his peers. I think it’s some kind of journalistic rule that you write a piece assuming that the reader should not have to/will not want to read another article to get the necessary context about the writer’s subject. That’s why we’ll always see his awards mentioned. 

 

Of course, there’s a difference between being a good writer and being a fanboy who fawns over his subject. But that’s what editors are for. 

 

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Nah. It's just laziness on behalf of journalists.

And a lack of imagination. They just copy what everyone else does.

Except me, of course!😁

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Well, in Williams case his Oscar record is worth mentioning because it is so outrageous. It is an attestation of his continued excellence over literally 6 decades and shows a quality of output that is basically unmatched.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with this - if Williams has a score out in any year, it is probably the best things to come out that year. That is what his oscar record proclaims.

 

And it is worth mentioning because no other person alive could lay claim to that sustained level of quality.

 

Also it just so happens that for better or for worse - the academy award happens to be the biggest prize a film composer can win. Don't trust me? Ask any film composer what they think.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

So, Johnny's main accomplishments in life are his awards?

Do we rank Beethoven number one based on awards? No, we celebrate his ART. By measuring an artist by his awards we demean and diminish him or her. Likewise, we downgrade anyone who hasn't won anything- I intentional or not!

 

I'm not particularly proud of my ' award winning' articles. They are just as ' award worthy' as the rest.😉

 

M

 

 

 

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

@TheUlyssesian isn't saying that, Bruce! Are you intentionally misinterpreting everything? 

[Bellosh 3,389]

Raiders of the Lost Ark should have won Best Picture and Best Score, change my mind.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

30 minutes ago, Arpy said:

@TheUlyssesian isn't saying that, Bruce! Are you intentionally misinterpreting everything? 

I'm speaking in general terms.

The worst are Pullitzer which is basically reporters from the New York Times, Boston Globe and Washington Post sitting around a table and giving each other awards

I hate the whole thing. Same goes for " Hall of Fame" silliness.

The only award of value is THE FSM MAN OF THE YEAR AWARD; handed out by yours truly. Unfortunately, after four years I ran out of worthy recipients! 😆😝😜

20 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Raiders of the Lost Ark should have won Best Picture and Best Score, change my mind.

E.T.

STAR WARS

Best picture 'losers'

Films that move generation after generation. Will remain classics for all time

Can we say the same thing about GHANDI? ANNIE HALL ( good films but...).

Nuff said!😁

[Bayesian 1,359]

19 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

So, Johnny's main accomplishments in life are his awards?

Do we rank Beethoven number one based on awards? No, we celebrate his ART. By measuring an artist by his awards we demean and diminish him or her. Likewise, we downgrade anyone who hasn't won anything- I intentional or not!

Beethoven's contemporaries wrote about him as the greatest pianist-improviser and composer in all of Vienna. Although "awards" as we know them simply didn't exist back then, we can look instead to 19th century corollaries of recognition: things like commissions from all over Europe (as far away as London and Russia), or large advances on works he often wouldn't bother writing until years later. He was the first composer to make an independent living from his music, calling his own shots, as it were. At some point, I recall reading, Beethoven was tempted to leave Vienna for Paris or Berlin or someplace, and several wealthy patrons basically came together and agreed to give him the equivalent of a salary in exchange for him staying put--a first of its kind event. These things aren't awards, of course, but they speak about the man at the center of it all in the same way as awards do today.

 

Awards or no awards, Beethoven was duly recognized as the greatest practitioner of his art while he was alive by writers/critics of the era, just as JW is being recognized by writers and by his peers for his art while he is alive. 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Beethoven was also recognized by COMPOSERS during and after his life.

Liszt, Wagner and other composers of the Romantic Era idolized him. That says ALOT! ( more certainly than music critics of that era!😅)

[GerateWohl 4,338]

I think, mentioning awards is motivated by journaiist's aime to report based on facts and not oppinions. Everything that is countable or measurable is a fact. And probably everything related to quality and not quantity is suspicious to be just the personal oppinion ot the journalist. And if you are not really an expert on the subject, you stick to the facts you know even more.

 

And I personally rather read the award story than the sallary story.

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

😰

That story about Beethoven taking commissions and not composing anything for years , reminds one what a disreputable scoundrel he could be!

Most of the great composers were pretty douche!😁😝

[A24 4,326]

I guess the millions that watch Oscar night are all journalists.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

2 minutes ago, AC1 said:

I guess the millions that watch Oscar night are all journalists.

And gay men. 😅 ( stole that line from Chris rock)

Millions soon to be thousands if the ratings continue to sink!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

8 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I think, mentioning awards is motivated by journaiist's aime to report based on facts and not oppinions. Everything that is countable or measurable is a fact. And probably everything related to quality and not quantity is suspicious to be just the personal oppinion ot the journalist. And if you are not really an expert on the subject, you stick to the facts you know even more.

 

I think that’s it more than anything. Awards are arbitrary but it’s the simplest way to quantify his acclaim. Most famous actors are lucky to get “Academy Award nominee/winner” by their name so the fact John Williams has 50+ isn’t nothing. 

 

It’s just not a hot take anymore that awards shows are dumb. It was cool when Brando and Hoffman and George Scott were saying it and then became a Gen X soapbox but awards can symbolize something meaningful for people who win them. It’s like getting Employee of the Month, you’ve been busting your ass for awhile and finally everybody agrees you deserve PTO and the parking space upfront. It’s nice especially when you least expect it. And some people get it right away because they’re instantly awesome, or maybe undeservedly, manager’s son or girlfriend or whatever, while other people go months with everyone telling them “You really should have gotten that awhile ago.” And then you get it and you’re like “This is bullshit” but secretly you’re touched they paid attention. And then your month’s over and you’re just a guy again and you remember why you wanted to quit.

 

Awards shows magnify all that because they’re televised and everyone’s famous, people keep track of everyone who’s won and it keeps getting dredged up. And it’s not just the day job but recognition for something that a lot of these people have loved and dreamed of doing since they were children. Sally Field’s “You like me!” sums up everything that’s good and bad about it. It’s an emotional thing and we all love our favorite filmmakers and musicians, it’s why people are still interested even if everyone by now acknowledges the pretense and that the track record for recognizing quality work is all over the place with these groups. But then again everybody has their own yardstick for that too.