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First use of "Ludlow's Demise"-like motifs


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You know that action motif from "Ludlow's Demise", the one whose close relatives crop up in various other Williams scores? Minor key...fast tempo...usually triplet-based...has a characteristic melodic arc starting on the tonic, working its way up to the fifth or octave with an immediate jump back down to the tonic? I've always assumed TLW was the first time this idea showed up in Williams' work, but I'm realizing I could easily be wrong.

 

These are the scores I can think of at the moment that use this motif:

 

The Lost World

the first two Potter films

Minority Report

The Last Jedi

 

Am I missing any? In particular, am I missing any before TLW, or do we think that was Williams' first time sharing that musical idea with audiences?

 

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The Patriot score was one of those that just hit me the right way at the right time. I adore it. I'm day 1 to revisit it again via an expansion. 

You know that action motif from "Ludlow's Demise", the one whose close relatives crop up in various other Williams scores? Minor key...fast tempo...usually triplet-based...has a characteristic melodic

Good stuff! As the end of the video points out, some of these are rather more distant relatives, but it's interesting to hear them included as well.   I take it no one has any obscure but cl

11 minutes ago, Datameister said:

I take it no one has any obscure but clear pre-TLW antecedents to point out? I'm not aware of any, but it would be an interesting twist.

 

I'm really curious about this too. Granted, there are plenty examples of sort of sawing string patterns in pre-TLW Williams, but nothing with quite with the specific Ludlow melodic profile. One of these days, someone'll have to pore over the string parts in action & tension cues in, say, JP1 or Empire of the Sun to see if there are any precedents...

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This is one of my all-time favorite JW motifs. I remember back in mid-2015 listening to that section in "The Quidditch Match," and thinking about how all I ever wanted is a SW sequel score that features that. Then TLJ came along and my dream came true! :lovethis:

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I haven't seen The Patriot in 20 years and haven't heard the score in a long time either.  I think I'll be rectifying both soon!

 

To answer Data's original question, I don't recall every hearing this riff before The Lost World personally

 

I think my favorite use of it after the original is in the Quidditch cues

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We actually watched The Patriot in December, the first time I'd seen the film since I saw it once in theaters over 20 years ago.  I thought the film was decent; Not perfect, and absolutely fell short of the potential the production had, but worth watching.  The score... eh, I wasn't wowwed by it.  I was expecting to be blown away after all the hype it's been getting in recent months on JWFan, but I dunno, it didn't seem that special to me.  I listened to the OST album twice after watching the film and was again not super wowwed.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I dunno about expansion possibilities; It's OST was Hollywood Records so only Intrada could expand it (although of course Mondo go to expand Zimmer's M:I 2 for vinyl so who knows).  But the real issue is that I think Centropolis Entertainment has some weird rights-hold on it that would make licensing difficult

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Oh I'll buy it, and hope that it changes my opinion on the score, but for now, it's not near the top of my most desired Williams expansions

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18 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

the Patriot is the only track I skip on Lights, Camera, Music.

 

The orchestral balance is all wrong in that recording.

 

18 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

It feels empty somehow.

 

It matches the movie then! Although I have to say it's fun escapism.

 

Cue escapism debate...

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2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The orchestral balance is all wrong in that recording.

 

Well it didn't ruin the other tracks for me, just the Patriot!

 

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Cue escapism debate...

 

Escapism sucks!

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16 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

 

Well it didn't ruin the other tracks for me, just the Patriot!

 

Duh, I meant in that recording of The Patriot theme!

 

16 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

 

Escapism sucks!

 

No way!

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I watched the Patriot in TV shortly after watching also Braveheart for the first time and was wondering about all the similarities in the story and in Gibson's character. I was never really interested in the score but the expansion might change my mind. 

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It's interesting to see a more mixed reaction to The Patriot here at JWFan; when I watched the movie for the first time I was totally blown away by how good the score was in context. The movie is terrible, but Williams' score is easily the best aspect of it.

 

If I was an Oscar voter back in 2001, I'd totally vote for Williams (even though I know my colleagues would vote for Gladiator or Crouching Tiger).

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

NOOO! I'm talking about the mixing!

 

Well what do I know about that! I'm not the man with the golden ears.

 

20 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

when I watched the movie for the first time I was totally blown away by how good the score was in context

 

I can imagine that's the case. TLJ for example I enjoy on the album, but it actually made a stronger impression on me in the film, because it complemented the onscreen action so well. Plus I've only heard an overblown concert piece from the Patriot and not the actual score, and I tend to enjoy Williams' scores more than his concert versions. So perhaps the expansion will be revealing.

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