Tom Guernsey 171 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I think we're kinda having a debate I was consciously trying to avoid to be honest. I do understand where @Holko is coming from but I still don't really think there's any reason not to take a really fine score and have it newly interpreted, but with the budget, talent and time to match. Most of what film music fans think of as "re-recordings" are pretty limited in terms of budget and it sometimes shows, which is a shame, but shouldn't preclude it as a possibility. I don't see that it's massively different from just listening to a ballet score without any dancing (I don't like ballet, but Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet is terrific music on its own) or other people interpreting, for example, Stravinsky's music. He set down recordings of a large proportion of what he wrote but every new Stravinsky recording isn't reviewed in that context, indeed I don't think many consider his versions the best even if they are "definitive". However, I agree that most of the recordings of his music will have been done with a bigger budget and more significant podium talent (no disrespect to those conductors) than the average soundtrack re-recording but that's kinda my point... Empire is a good enough score (in my view) to stand up to that kind of treatment. If I win the lottery and make this happen, you are under no obligation to buy it ;-) crocodile 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Fabulin 2482 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Yeah, nobody will ever traditionally record scores like Empire as well as Williams did with the LSO, especially with the sound from dozens of takes sewn together. I found the directions by Korngold, Steiner, Holst, Khachaturian, and Stravinsky of their own music to be rather impeccable as well, even if the recording technology was not quite there. As for the various re-recordings, they usually have singular highlight tracks, and the rest is sub-par. What are the odds? Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I guess to me it sometimes just sounds like wanting something different purely for the sake of it being a bit different instead of appreciating the perfectly great original recording. Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post crumbs 8394 Posted October 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2020 Nobody will need re-recordings of any Star Wars score once Mike works his magic on them. QuartalHarmony, Fabulin, Holko and 2 others 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Nobody will need re-recordings of any Star Wars score once Mike works his magic on them. The magic is impossible. What don't you understand? The tapes ARE FALLING TO PIECES. They can't do anything with them, it's too late. Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Except if they aren't. You don't know that. The RotJ demaster sounds fucking great. Chewy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 My poor little friends, let it go. Let it go... Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Stop that defeatist horseshit. Even if they aren't pristine quality, look at what Mike did with Jaws. Chewy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jay 18390 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Nobody will need re-recordings of any Star Wars score once Mike works his magic on them. But that was why I specifically called out the original Star wars earlier - that one score out of the 9 was performed by a smaller orchestra than the subsequent 8 scores. No matter how pristine the elements are and how much technology improves their sound quality, you cannot do anything about the orchestra size Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 It's performed perfectly fine. It's the only one out of 9 not spotted wall to wall, it's shorter, so the smaller orchestra doesn't stand out ot if it does, in a consistent way. You should listen to them 4-6, 1-3, 7-9 anyway because those represent JW's eras and growth better! Chewy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 It's not about the "performance" or the "size of the orchestra" (does size matters?), it's about it'll never sound as good as it should be. Let's take the DeLorean, set it to 1985 and let's steal the original tapes of A New Hope, ESB and ROTJ. Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Many of the cues on the demaster sound the best they ever have. Stop that defeatist horseshit. Chewy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 They should re-record SW with a chamber ensemble. GerateWohl and ragoz350 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Holko said: Many of the cues on the demaster sound the best they ever have. Stop that defeatist horseshit. Oh com'on, by example The Imperial March ALWAYS have those tiny little microscopics analog glitches (on every version it was released), like several other main cues. We can't do anything about it. The poor tapes already gave us their best. I don't believe in miracles anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 ...okay. So? Don't other analogue tapes have tiny microscopic inaudible glitches? Can't someone like Mike who knows what he's doing fix them if they're that bad? Again, look what he's done with Jaws. And stop that defeatist horseshit. Chewy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
crumbs 8394 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jay said: But that was why I specifically called out the original Star wars earlier - that one score out of the 9 was performed by a smaller orchestra than the subsequent 8 scores. No matter how pristine the elements are and how much technology improves their sound quality, you cannot do anything about the orchestra size But if you re-recorded that score and changed the size of the orchestra, aren't you fundamentally changing what JW wrote? This might be a non-issue if the first score was already adapted for larger ensembles for the LTP (to bring it in line with the other scores) which JW would've signed off on. Personally I'm not a fan of how dry that recording is and would be curious to hear it recorded with Abbey Road/prequel acoustics (but only as a curiosity, I still think Mike will get those 3 scores sounding better than any prior release, which was the main point I was making earlier). And yeah, hearing the sequel scores performed by the LSO at Abbey Road, but that'll never happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Jay 18390 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, crumbs said: But if you re-recorded that score and changed the size of the orchestra, aren't you fundamentally changing what JW wrote? Sure. Did I suggest anywhere that a new recording should replace the old one? Link to post Share on other sites
crumbs 8394 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay said: Sure. Did I suggest anywhere that a new recording should replace the old one? It was a rhetorical question. I didn't insinuate you made any such suggestion. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 And it's because we don't "know" anyone in the business... but I'm sure when they did the "Live to Movie" concerts, they already recorded brand pristine clear and powerfull and vibrant recordings... I'm sure they recorded at least one perfect session for each movies. Why it has not leaked yet? Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Why would they have recorded the rehearsals? And the live performances would have the lout movie audio too. Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 They record eveything. In rehearsals, they don't need the movie sounds, they just have to follow the tempo on the iPad... Holko 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jay 18390 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I attended rehearsals for Azkaban LTP at the Royal Albert Theater. They weren't recording the rehearsals, and they didn't even rehearse the entire concert in order anyway And yea, even if the final performance was recorded, it would have the film audio all over it Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Properly micing the hall and mixing the recording would be insane effort for near zero potential gain. Link to post Share on other sites
crumbs 8394 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bespin said: They record eveything. In rehearsals, they don't need the movie sounds, they just have to follow the tempo on the iPad... I'm sure there's all kinds of licensing issues preventing such recordings being released, if they even existed (which I doubt). They'd be plastered with movie sound effects anyway You'd have to run a completely silent rehearsal which defeats the whole point of a rehearsal (to replicate the actual event as close as possible). Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 We'll on the E.T. DVD, they once released a live performance of the score conducted by Williams himself, with the movie sounds and cheering public. It's fun to watch the movie with this soundtrack! Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 37 minutes ago, Holko said: Properly micing the hall and mixing the recording would be insane effort for near zero potential gain. In many concert halls there's more or less permanent recording setups for recording subscription concerts for the orchestra's archive and for radio broadcast. Bespin 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 ARCHIVES ARCHIVES! Thanks to Tanglewood, for having recorded these performances, maybe one day, we'll get the images too! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Guernsey 171 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Some interesting points but I still don’t really think there’s anything inherently wrong with recording a film score as though it were any other piece or classical orchestral music. You’ll always have the original. Thinking further, the Chicago Symphony under George Solti would be perfect for a Star Wars score. Alas George died in 1997... Disco Stu and GerateWohl 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 They'll make a hologram Solti. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Disco Stu 10586 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 58 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Some interesting points but I still don’t really think there’s anything inherently wrong with recording a film score as though it were any other piece or classical orchestral music. I agree 1000% Tom Guernsey 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jay 18390 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 That's what I was getting at with both my AI and Star Wars suggestions. New recording to show a different angles on those original scores. Of course I always want the original recordings to be just as available to everyone GerateWohl 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Always hasn't been available for years. 11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: I agree 1000% I agree 1001%! Link to post Share on other sites
Thor 3756 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I know this board is STAR WARS-centric, but that a score that has a gazillion soundtrack releases and rerecordings should be so prolific in the discussion, is....well, stunning psychology, let me put it that way. Link to post Share on other sites
Edmilson 1730 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I want the Star Wars scores to be re-recorded with fart and burp sounds manipulated electronically. RC could be responsible for it. Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Balfe will do it, based on samples of the LSO, and Christopher McQuarrie will hail it as a masterpiece. Edmilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Holko 5354 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, Thor said: but that a score that has a gazillion soundtrack releases If all of them wouldn't suck, we'd have no problem! crumbs 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 We need the STAR WARS UNSUCKY EDITION! Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Guernsey 171 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, Thor said: I know this board is STAR WARS-centric, but that a score that has a gazillion soundtrack releases and rerecordings should be so prolific in the discussion, is....well, stunning psychology, let me put it that way. Wow. Thanks. Just because Empire happens to be a favourite score. There are plenty of others I’d try to have recorded but no need to judge anyone’s psychology. Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 At least he offers his diagnoses for free. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Guernsey 171 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: At least he offers his diagnoses for free. To be fair, I prefer my diagnoses in complete form with all of the symptoms listed in chronological order. And any alternate symptoms listed separately. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Thor 3756 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Wow. Thanks. Just because Empire happens to be a favourite score. There are plenty of others I’d try to have recorded but no need to judge anyone’s psychology. I'm more talking group psychology here. I just find it fascinating that such a super-well-represented score tops the lists of JW scores people would like to have rerecorded. Link to post Share on other sites
Loert 2009 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I'd like to see The Phantom Menace re-recorded using the recording equipment that was used for The Empire Strikes Back. Fabulin 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GerateWohl 333 Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: They should re-record SW with a chamber ensemble. Two pianos and a conga player. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to post Share on other sites
T.RASK 970 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 None Link to post Share on other sites
Bespin 4276 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, theBT said: None That's the lamest 924th post I ever saw! T.RASK 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Guernsey 171 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 14 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Sorry. Didn’t mean to name a blank post! I was just going to comment that I’m not sure there are any JW scores that are in desperate need of a re-recording although I’d enjoy enjoy the opportunity to hear them should some want to record them. Having said that, one or other of the JW Facebook groups posted the “album of the week” as his bassoon concerto, The Five Sacred Trees. Much though I enjoyed Williams’ take on it, the recording that Naxos did under Leonard Slatkin I find much more incisive and with a better mix. Same goes for Slatkin’s take on the Cello Concerto although you do miss Yo-Yo Ma as the soloist, fine though Robert deMaine is. Link to post Share on other sites
Thor 3756 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: I was just going to comment that I’m not sure there are any JW scores that are in desperate need of a re-recording All the scores that are completely unreleased, and where the prospect of ever finding the master tapes is lost, are certainly in 'desperate need' of a re-recording. THE SECRET WAYS, GIDGET GOES TO ROME, DADDY'S GONE A-HUNTING, you name it. Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6313 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 54 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Sorry. Didn’t mean to name a blank post! Just click edit, select the quoted post, and then click cut. Link to post Share on other sites
GerateWohl 333 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Thor said: All the scores that are completely unreleased, and where the prospect of ever finding the master tapes is lost, are certainly in 'desperate need' of a re-recording. THE SECRET WAYS, GIDGET GOES TO ROME, DADDY'S GONE A-HUNTING, you name it. Yeah. A boxset called "The Lost Worlds" with a black yellow red Jurassic Park like image of bones as notes on a music sheet. Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Guernsey 171 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Just click edit, select the quoted post, and then click cut. Thanks. Think it was because I was trying to type on my phone. Now enjoying the bassoon concerto (JW version, Slatkin later). Jurassic Shark 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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