phbart 511 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Interesting article... https://nofilmschool.com/John-Williams-Thief Link to post Share on other sites
KK 2792 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Yawn. All the usual old SW culprits... Link to post Share on other sites
bruce marshall 469 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 There are already TWO THREADS devoted to influences/plagiarism/temp -trackitis.😵 Quote https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=99145&forumID=7&archive=0 Link to post Share on other sites
Bellosh 710 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I've never heard of these reviewers before, but they seem very knowledgeable, which you wouldn't really think considering their 'wacky/weird' editing. I usually don't care for that type of 'youtube reviewer editing' technique. Just get to the point. As far as the pieces in question I could careless, and besides....didn't Lucas temp SW to Holst anyways? The Dune Sea ripoff is one that's pretty blatant though. I still don't care though. Good artists borrow, great artists steal blablahblahhhhhh, insert any unoriginal quote on the matter. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bruce marshall 469 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Not.Gonna.Click. Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6040 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Bruce bait. bruce marshall 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Quintus 4983 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 It's always the same boring allegations of thievery. Why can't someone at least be different for a change and ask, "is John Williams a rapist?" Link to post Share on other sites
GerateWohl 234 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I am also not interested in this thievery discussion. But what interests me is the way how and when quotes from other musical pieces are credited and when not. It seems to be handled quite differently in different cases. Sometimes on the CD's you have credits like *contains segments of Prelude No. 5 of ..." sometimes it is not mentioned at all. That confuses me to say the least. There seem to be no rules at all. I mean in classical music there is a certain traddition of using themes from other composers and classical music experts would be insulted if they would be patronized by crediting those thing in a cd release. If it is not something like Rachmaninov's "variations on a theme of Pagganini". And actually most modern film composers hardly following any traddition of classical music writing and not putting any effort in originallity always using the same three unrecongizable same tunes for everything are surely not to be regarded in that discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
Fabulin 2384 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 People who accuse JW of "thievery", as in: a deliberate effort to steal property from someone for the other's loss and personal gain, are petty minds who can't even comprehend Williams the humble, hardworking artist, not to mention Williams the genius. If I have to say something positive, then maybe that they are at least sometimes fun to hunt. Once 1 Link to post Share on other sites
The Big Man 6965 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Hey! Shoplifter! Not Mr. Big and mrbellamy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Taikomochi 620 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Would be genuinely interested in a video like this that wasn’t just Star Wars (and briefly Jaws). That covers such a small amount of his work. It’s always fucking Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars. Find something else to critique, for fuck’s sake. I’m sure there’s plenty of other music in Williams’ oeuvre that borrows. I’d rather hear about that. AC1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Fabulin 2384 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Bellosh said: As far as the pieces in question I could careless, and besides....didn't Lucas temp SW to Holst anyways? The Dune Sea ripoff is one that's pretty blatant though. What is the difference between one piece of temp and the other? Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 6040 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 The notes? Link to post Share on other sites
publicist 3731 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Thank god someone finally shed light on these heinous crimes. Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Tom 1435 Posted October 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2020 Yes, he is a thief. He stole my heart years ago. eitam, Hedji, Bayesian and 2 others 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Thor 3575 Posted October 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Taikomochi said: It’s always fucking Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars. That sounds like a good description of this messageboard too. Bayesian, Quintus and bruce marshall 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Datameister 986 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Thor said: That sounds like a good description of this messageboard too. You yourself are not exactly a poster child for never touching the same topic twice. Bryant Burnette and Hedji 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hedji 191 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Yes. A Book Thief. T.RASK and Bespin 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bayesian 592 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 JW does not plagiarize. Plagiarism is an act of intentional deceit, an effort to cut corners and lessen the workload—two things JW can never be accused of. As others have said, if certain Star Wars motifs or musical contours resemble material written by Holst, it’s because that’s what Lucas was going to use in the first place. As a composer, you’re not going to win the job away from another (dead) composer without being able to deliver the earlier composer’s sound (which happened to already win over the director). Link to post Share on other sites
Not Mr. Big 2796 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Hedji said: Yes. A Book Thief. Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Parker 2839 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 When I saw this thread title I figured it wouldn't be another plagiarism thread and that it would be about Williams going mad during quarantine and threatening a store clerk for panic-buy pencils. T.RASK 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Fabulin 2384 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Guitar Williams sure is a thief for trying to steal John Williams' identity. His influence has been subtle, but it's there, as witnessed in gullible minds such as these: Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Parker 2839 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, Albus Percival Wulfric said: Guitar Williams sure is a thief for trying to steal John Williams' identity. His influence has been subtle, but it's there, as witnessed in gullible minds such as these: Did you steal this image? Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post bruce marshall 469 Posted October 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2020 Jay, Hedji and Fabulin 3 Link to post Share on other sites
publicist 3731 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Bayesian said: Plagiarism is an act of intentional deceit, an effort to cut corners and lessen the workload—two things JW can never be accused of. That's a rather misleading personal definition. Wiki says: Plagiarism is the representation of another author's language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions as one's own original work. Composers like Williams and Horner (and many others, both just are famous Hollywood examples) can be accused of hiding their sources by just not mentioning them - which would of course be rather impractical. As for the works of art, there is no rigorous and precise distinction between practices like imitation, stylistic plagiarism, copy, replica and forgery. But seeing the recent Horner quote in the LBT thread, it's certainly a matter that needs to be discussed in context of musical history and can't be just brushed off as 'untrue per se'. Bayesian 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now