Why is John Williams considered one of the greatest film composers?

[aksarhils53 0]

So I watched Born on the Fourth of July for the first time this morning and I loved it...except for the score. It reminded me how much I dislike John Williams.

I find his film scores to be overly pretentious and very loud. He often sacrifices music which fits the scene well, giving the movie a sense of atmosphere, for music that is meant to sound "big". When his score plays during dialogue it's loud enough that it com 192.168.1.254pletely overshadows the talking, to the point that you can watch a movie and listen to its soundtrack album and there will be no difference in how you visualize it. His themes are also very repetitive, playing the same four notes over and over. It's like he's trying to have them stuck in your head. 10.0.0.0.1

Is his status as one of the "greatest" film composers simply because the movies which use his score are extremely popular? Is it because he attaches a theme to every character? Or is there another reason?

Please don't downvote me for this very unpopular opinion, I just want to know why he's so acclaimed by film critics.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

His style is really meant for specific types of scenes that are very artsy and warmhearted. Let me see if I can find you some example clips. It's good to watch the Star Wars original trilogy because that's the overwhelmingly best example of his approach to film and what type of movies he's suited for. (Not genre, but the style of narrative itself.)

 

Here's a scene I uploaded to show the brilliance of a typical Spielberg-Williams pairing. The music gorgeously fits this director's vision of an expansive silent movement scene; it sets the stage and world. Hear the contrasts and resolutions.

 

The following scenes epitomize the feeling of wonder, warmth, acceptance. These are very common themes in Williams best cues:

 

 

The key to the following scenes is that the music is in a Major key. You see, most composers would not even dare to write something both dooming and in Major for such a scene. But it shows Williams had his priorities straight here: he wanted to make the scene not to be about scariness, but about adventure!

ie. What is 'the light side' of the force? These deeper, double-sided meanings are important in understanding Williams' music:

 

[Bellosh 3,403]

lol

 

I'm calling troll/alternate account on this one.  🥴

[Steve 591]

Failed troll attempt. The arguments make no sense and are completely wrong. This troll has watched no movies with Williams' music. Otherwise he wouldnt write such bs.

[Thor 7,490]

I have no idea if this a troll post or not (I agree it does sound that way from the phrasing), but it should be in the 'Unpopular opinions' thread, in any case.

 

What you describe as a weakness, I call a strength -- i.e. allowing 'pauses' in the narrative to be scored upfront and center, relying more on the effect from visuals and music alone (kinda music video-like). Wish there more composers who did this, and especially directors who allowed that room for music.

[Bespin 8,480]

In a movie scored by John Williams, I have the feeling that the music is a character itself. It certainly comes from the golden age of Hollywood where the music always played a central part in movies.

 

John Williams don't write "background" music, he tells a story with his music. Some director/people like it, some people don't like it.

 

Now, I don't have anything against atmospheric background music in a movie, but it's totally at the other side of what John Williams does.

 

His movie music is melodic, it is structured, it's thematic, it follows classical skills (like counterpoint), then it's usually also developed like a classical work.

 

I watched the two last Avengers this week. Silvestri's score suits well those movies, but it's atmospheric, it's percussive, it's formatted... we can't talk about highly sophisticated and highly structured classical compositions... and it's not a bad thing, because it suits that kind of movies well.

 

Finally, there are more than one thinking school and every composer has his style. And John Willliams with his style, is certainly the last of the mohicans. Alas.

 

[Jay 37,336]

The main post of this thread is a copy and paste of this 4 year old reddit post

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/flicks/comments/3ucr75/why_is_john_williams_considered_one_of_the/

[Bespin 8,480]

Ok, ask the same question in four more years, I'll answer the same thing!

[Andy 4,117]

Welcome to the forum!

[Smeltington 1,436]

Not everyone should be welcomed to the forum. There have to be limits.

[Andy 4,117]

Sorry, I was trying to be mildly sarcastic.  What a first post!

 

At least we got some fine example clips in this thread.

 

Is it wrong that while watching E.T. with my daughter the other night, I thought the CG bicycle effects would've improved it for a modern audience?

 

 

[Bespin 8,480]

1 hour ago, Hedji said:

Is it wrong that while watching E.T. with my daughter the other night, I thought the CG bicycle effects would've improved it for a modern audience?

 

Yes.

[Datameister 2,041]

I gotta admit, it's an interesting tactic on the part of the bot creators. It seems to me like it wouldn't yield much in the way of returns, but that shows how much I know.

 

Anyway, yes, John Williams sucks!

[bollemanneke 3,342]

9 hours ago, Steve said:

Failed troll attempt. The arguments make no sense and are completely wrong. This troll has watched no movies with Williams' music. Otherwise he wouldnt write such bs.

Excuse me, but some of his points are valid, although I think directors are to blame for them and not JW himself. Both Home Alone and HP1 have loud scores, for example. Especially HP1 really needs to be quieter. That score also repeats Hedwig's Theme ad nauseum. Same happens with Home Alone 2 and somewhere in my memory. Which is strange because JW can certainly write great variations if he wants/is asked? to.

[Bayesian 1,359]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

The main post of this thread is a copy and paste of this 4 year old reddit post

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/flicks/comments/3ucr75/why_is_john_williams_considered_one_of_the/

So... lock thread??

[Steve 591]

5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Excuse me, but some of his points are valid, although I think directors are to blame for them and not JW himself. Both Home Alone and HP1 have loud scores, for example. Especially HP1 really needs to be quieter. That score also repeats Hedwig's Theme ad nauseum. Same happens with Home Alone 2 and somewhere in my memory. Which is strange because JW can certainly write great variations if he wants/is asked? to.

Repetition can be an issue, I agree. Luke's theme gets used a lot in the original trilogy, too. However, I don't agree that HP1 has too much Hedwig's Theme or the music being too loud. Home Alone 2, yeah, the theme repetition is a bit annoying even though I really like the melody.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

12 hours ago, aksarhils53 said:

...I dislike John Williams.

I have had a muthafuckin'nuff, of this muthafuckin' thread!

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

.

[Arpy 4,145]

Isn't this the fiftieth thread this week like 'How does Williams do it?'

 

 

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

On 11/5/2020 at 10:12 AM, aksarhils53 said:

So I watched Born on the Fourth of July for the first time this morning and I loved it...except for the score. It reminded me how much I dislike John Williams.

 

I never LOVE a movie if I dislike the score, it is so important for me. And your other resonings are so funny that thank you for the popcorn!! 

[Tom 4,650]

15 hours ago, aksarhils53 said:

So I watched Born on the Fourth of July for the first time this morning and I loved it...except for the score. It reminded me how much I dislike John Williams.

 

I was listening to John Williams's music while reading this thread.  I loved it, except for the post.  It reminded me how much I dislike trolls.   

[Loert 2,511]

16 hours ago, aksarhils53 said:

His themes are also very repetitive, playing the same four notes over and over. It's like he's trying to have them stuck in your head.

 

Interesting that you frame this as a negative...I think he is genuinely trying to do this! But I guess you mean that his way of doing it is too obvious.

 

For what it's worth, most of my appreciation for JW comes from what I perceive to be his impeccable command of orchestral writing in the "neo-Romantic" style. And to me, the fact that he is a "film composer" means mostly that he has had plenty of experience to acquire that command, not that he writes for film.

 

At the end of the day, for me John Williams is the living composer whose music is closest in quality to that of the greats like Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov etc., if you look at it in terms of orchestral clarity and detail, in a Romantic sense. And this is important to me because I feel it is a dying art that is worth preserving.

 

EDIT: Just realised this is an old Reddit post. Thought it was quite an interesting topic...

[Jay 37,336]

Huh.  There's now 2 IP addresses added into the main post

[Fabulin 3,510]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Huh.  There's now 2 IP addresses added into the main post

Kill it before it lays eggs!

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

Huh.  There's now 2 IP addresses added into the main post

 

From private address ranges no less. What's the point?

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

It's Stefan's new account. You guys didn't actually believe he'd left, did you?

[Edmilson 7,426]

The author of the original post:

 

[Jay 37,336]

29 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

From private address ranges no less. What's the point?

 

I'm guessing the bot's code is just imperfect / broke on our particular forum

[Bryant Burnette 654]

On 11/5/2020 at 2:12 AM, aksarhils53 said:

So I watched Born on the Fourth of July for the first time this morning and I loved it...except for the score. It reminded me how much I dislike John Williams.

 

Apparently you are a bot, but even so, I'd like to invite you to eat an orangutan ass.

[Bayesian 1,359]

On 11/6/2020 at 9:56 AM, Jay said:

Huh.  There's now 2 IP addresses added into the main post

Just like you advise us not to feed trolls here, we’d be well advised not to feed bots either.

[Wojo 2,453]

How do you feed a bot? Stick a disk in its drive? 

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Answer to the original question: watch that Vienna concert, possibly multiple times and you may understand. Probably not.