Jurassic Park II: The Lost World soundtrack. Album track 7: "Rescuing Sarah" - best part edited out (2:13 - 3:18)

[CuriousMan 16]

So here's my first ever topic.

The first time I listened to the JP II: TLW soundtrack album, I was disappointed to hear the cue where Eddie pulls the trailers up, and the two T-Rexes approach his car was edited out on the CD.

I've always been curious to know why JW chose to have this particular section edited out of this track.

[Jay 37,287]

I don't think any member of this forum can read John Williams' mind, and I've never seen an interview where he talks about choices made for any OST decisions, let alone this particular one

 

 

The short answer for why JW does anything for an OST album is: He thinks it works better that way.

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, CuriousMan said:

The first time I listened to the JP II: TLW soundtrack album, I was disappointed to hear the cue where Eddie pulls the trailers up, and the two T-Rexes approach his car was edited out on the CD.

I feel you, man. That part was really stuck in my mind, when I saw the movie for the first time, back in 2010, and I was like "wait a minute, where is that great string part that I was looking forward too?", when I found out that Rescuing Sarah was edited down on the OST.

 

My guess is that the style of the cue was too disjointed in John Williams view and therefore he trimmed it down a bit to make it seem less volatile.

 

Luckily, we now have La-La Land Records' complete score release.

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

It was probably an insert that he felt disrupted either the flow or the structure of the cue.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

It was probably an insert that he felt disrupted either the flow or the structure of the cue.

I don't think that it was an insert. There are no alternates for this score, neither was anything recorded nor written.

[CuriousMan 16]

No, I'm already convinced that "Truck Stop" is a full unedited music sequence.

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

I meant an insert into JW's original composition, with pencil and paper, not an insert that was done after the recording.

[Jay 37,287]

It wasn't.  It was part of the original composition and recorded as such.  He chose to edit it out for the album version

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

Well, I haven't seen the sheets so you might be right.

[mstrox 6,647]

Gotta leave something for the expansion

[Falstaft 2,132]

One of the most inexplicably excised sections of a cue on a Williams OST. Up there with two other notorious cuts, from ROTS "Lament" and "It Can't Be." Can't think of any others quite as egregious. 

[bollemanneke 3,337]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

I don't think any member of this forum can read John Williams' mind, and I've never seen an interview where he talks about choices made for any OST decisions, let alone this particular one

 

 

The short answer for why JW does anything for an OST album is: He thinks it works better that way.

 

I wish he would have said something about what he thinks about all the expanded re-issues.

[Datameister 2,037]

13 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I wish he would have said something about what he thinks about all the expanded re-issues.

 

They're only released once the expanded presentation has his approval. He's had changes or omissions made even on expanded releases. He certainly seems to like working with Mike Matessino on these; it's not as if he has any obligation to continue.

 

Anyway, I agree that the passage in question is one of the most chilling and memorable in that excellent cue. I can appreciate Williams wanting to keep the track length from ballooning, but I much prefer the complete version on the LLL album.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Right, but I meant, I would like to hear what he has to say about the re-issues, how he feels about them and why, how he feels about the OSTs now etc.

[Holko 9,499]

7 hours ago, Datameister said:

They're only released once the expanded presentation has his approval. He's had changes or omissions made even on expanded releases. He certainly seems to like working with Mike Matessino on these; it's not as if he has any obligation to continue.

Right, he's not just neutrally signing off on them, "fine, I guess if people want it they can have it", we know he personally asked Mike if he could maybe find and do Dracula, for example.

[crumbs 14,300]

Williams would be pragmatic enough to realise that expansions are the best way to remaster and preserve his scores to their best audio quality, for archival purposes. It's the preservation of his legacy and he's probably glad to oversee it.

 

There's not going to be a market to do that for OST reissues, meaning these elements will continue deteriorating until revisited for expansions.

 

Preserving the scoring elements is just as important as the expansions themselves.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

On 11/9/2020 at 11:35 PM, Falstaft said:

One of the most inexplicably excised sections of a cue on a Williams OST. Up there with two other notorious cuts, from ROTS "Lament" and "It Can't Be." Can't think of any others quite as egregious. 

 

The "It Can't Be"/Anakin's Dark Deeds one has always puzzled me, such an awesome moment (though already simplified on the way from orchestrated score to recording - there's an additional trumpet flourish he apparently cut on the stage?). Trying to rationalize it, I'd guess it's JW's inner Thor? The track indeed flows better in reduced form, at the cost of an incredible moment, taken in isolation - it does seem like two consecutive climaxes in the complete cue.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

I was never that bothered by It Can't Be's edit, because I think the album version does flow a bit better. While it's frustrating for nearly everyone that it's not the whole cue, I can see why JW did it.

 

Now.... Padme's funeral and Vader looking out at the death star. WTAF. I can perhaps see that because the story switches between the birth and Vader's bits maybe JW decided to focus entirely on the 'happy' path, but it's still a huge omission.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Williams edits out a lot of crappy bits that don't work.

[King Mark 3,625]

Call me 3 years ago  when I still cared about this

[CuriousMan 16]

On 11/9/2020 at 7:26 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

meant an insert into JW's original composition, with pencil and paper

Okay, excuse me for the misunderstanding.

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

21 minutes ago, CuriousMan said:

Okay, excuse me for the misunderstanding.

 

No prob, man!

[CuriousMan 16]

Something else: Isn't the title "Rescuing Sarah" a case of mislabeling? Wouldn't this title refer more to the pain of glass scene?

[Jay 37,287]

Yep.  Williams often uses goofy names for his OST albums.  During the composing process he titled the cue "Truck Stop"

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Well, technically Eddie is rescuing Sarah during that cue plays. The only issue here is that the boys, Ian and Nick, were somehow overlooked by Williams. Classic.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Yep.  Williams often uses goofy names for his OST albums.  During the composing process he titled the cue "Truck Stop"

 

See also Hogwarts Forever. Which goes with the matching lyrics, but is clearly specifically used as a Gryffindor theme throughout the score. Perhaps the melody based on the words came first, before Williams decided what to use it for - at least with the complete release and the bonus track with voices it's understandable where the piece got its title from.

[Jay 37,287]

I used to think it functioned as a Gryffindor theme too, but when working on the box set realized it was always a theme for Hogwarts overall.  It only seems like a Gryffindor theme in the final cut of the film because Columbus dialed out a lot of non-Gryffindor-centric instances

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, the very first mention of Hogwarts was scored with an ultimately unused statement of the theme, as was the first daytime establishing shot of the castle.

[Jay 37,287]

Yea so when it plays at the end as Gryffindor wins the house cup, it's really celebrating good triumphing over evil at Hogwarts moreso than Gryffindor kids getting more points than Slytherin kids

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

I used to think it functioned as a Gryffindor theme too, but when working on the box set realized it was always a theme for Hogwarts overall.  It only seems like a Gryffindor theme in the final cut of the film because Columbus dialed out a lot of non-Gryffindor-centric instances

 

That's odd, because e.g. in the Quidditch music it's timed perfectly for Gryffindor's moments, as opposed to Slytherin's (or anything else).

[Jay 37,287]

Yup it sure is!  It functions as both things, I suppose

[Datameister 2,037]

Agreed 100%. Williams has never been super pedantic about his themes' leitmotivic meanings. It's a nice school song, but it also has a great victorious sound that fits emotionally with Gryffindor's victories, since we as the audience are meant to root for them.

[CuriousMan 16]

On 12/8/2020 at 5:55 PM, Jay said:

Yep.  Williams often uses goofy names for his OST albums.

I see, interesting how Williams does this.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

Thankfully he's far below Giacchino's level of goofiness.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:38 PM, Datameister said:

Agreed 100%. Williams has never been super pedantic about his themes' leitmotivic meanings. It's a nice school song, but it also has a great victorious sound that fits emotionally with Gryffindor's victories, since we as the audience are meant to root for them.

 

Yes, I've always seen it as a general 'school' theme, and used in suitably good/heroic moments.

 

Ever since Shore/PJ used Nature's Reclamation as a general 'heroic' theme in LotR, I've felt it's a bit futile to try to strictly associate themes. Remember that JNH tried every theme he had for the Fantastic Beasts opening titles until Yates was happy, and who knows where else he had to try multiple themes.

 

I'm sure there are fans who like to think their favourite composer has an absolute command of all the themes they composed and their meaning, but I suspect in practice, they just go with what sounds best.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

5 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Yes, I've always seen it as a general 'school' theme, and used in suitably good/heroic moments.

 

The thing is, at least in the finished film, it's mostly used clearly very specifically for Gryffindor, never for Slytherin, and perhaps occasionally for "positive Hogwarts school stuff" - which always means Gryffindor to at least a good extent, since Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw are basically nonexistent in the film's story. At least that's the clear impression I get when I watch the film (and I just watched it last week). Williams' original intention may have been different, but if the Gryffindor relation ist just a result of the editing, they had a very exact music editor.