CuriousMan 16 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 So here's my first ever topic. The first time I listened to the JP II: TLW soundtrack album, I was disappointed to hear the cue where Eddie pulls the trailers up, and the two T-Rexes approach his car was edited out on the CD. I've always been curious to know why JW chose to have this particular section edited out of this track. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I don't think any member of this forum can read John Williams' mind, and I've never seen an interview where he talks about choices made for any OST decisions, let alone this particular one The short answer for why JW does anything for an OST album is: He thinks it works better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, CuriousMan said: The first time I listened to the JP II: TLW soundtrack album, I was disappointed to hear the cue where Eddie pulls the trailers up, and the two T-Rexes approach his car was edited out on the CD. I feel you, man. That part was really stuck in my mind, when I saw the movie for the first time, back in 2010, and I was like "wait a minute, where is that great string part that I was looking forward too?", when I found out that Rescuing Sarah was edited down on the OST. My guess is that the style of the cue was too disjointed in John Williams view and therefore he trimmed it down a bit to make it seem less volatile. Luckily, we now have La-La Land Records' complete score release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 It was probably an insert that he felt disrupted either the flow or the structure of the cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Just now, Jurassic Shark said: It was probably an insert that he felt disrupted either the flow or the structure of the cue. I don't think that it was an insert. There are no alternates for this score, neither was anything recorded nor written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMan 16 Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 No, I'm already convinced that "Truck Stop" is a full unedited music sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I meant an insert into JW's original composition, with pencil and paper, not an insert that was done after the recording. CuriousMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 It wasn't. It was part of the original composition and recorded as such. He chose to edit it out for the album version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Well, I haven't seen the sheets so you might be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Gotta leave something for the expansion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted November 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2020 One of the most inexplicably excised sections of a cue on a Williams OST. Up there with two other notorious cuts, from ROTS "Lament" and "It Can't Be." Can't think of any others quite as egregious. Arpy, Pieter Boelen and ChrisAfonso 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Jay said: I don't think any member of this forum can read John Williams' mind, and I've never seen an interview where he talks about choices made for any OST decisions, let alone this particular one The short answer for why JW does anything for an OST album is: He thinks it works better that way. I wish he would have said something about what he thinks about all the expanded re-issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: I wish he would have said something about what he thinks about all the expanded re-issues. They're only released once the expanded presentation has his approval. He's had changes or omissions made even on expanded releases. He certainly seems to like working with Mike Matessino on these; it's not as if he has any obligation to continue. Anyway, I agree that the passage in question is one of the most chilling and memorable in that excellent cue. I can appreciate Williams wanting to keep the track length from ballooning, but I much prefer the complete version on the LLL album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Right, but I meant, I would like to hear what he has to say about the re-issues, how he feels about them and why, how he feels about the OSTs now etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Datameister said: They're only released once the expanded presentation has his approval. He's had changes or omissions made even on expanded releases. He certainly seems to like working with Mike Matessino on these; it's not as if he has any obligation to continue. Right, he's not just neutrally signing off on them, "fine, I guess if people want it they can have it", we know he personally asked Mike if he could maybe find and do Dracula, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,301 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Williams would be pragmatic enough to realise that expansions are the best way to remaster and preserve his scores to their best audio quality, for archival purposes. It's the preservation of his legacy and he's probably glad to oversee it. There's not going to be a market to do that for OST reissues, meaning these elements will continue deteriorating until revisited for expansions. Preserving the scoring elements is just as important as the expansions themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 On 11/9/2020 at 11:35 PM, Falstaft said: One of the most inexplicably excised sections of a cue on a Williams OST. Up there with two other notorious cuts, from ROTS "Lament" and "It Can't Be." Can't think of any others quite as egregious. The "It Can't Be"/Anakin's Dark Deeds one has always puzzled me, such an awesome moment (though already simplified on the way from orchestrated score to recording - there's an additional trumpet flourish he apparently cut on the stage?). Trying to rationalize it, I'd guess it's JW's inner Thor? The track indeed flows better in reduced form, at the cost of an incredible moment, taken in isolation - it does seem like two consecutive climaxes in the complete cue. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,671 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I was never that bothered by It Can't Be's edit, because I think the album version does flow a bit better. While it's frustrating for nearly everyone that it's not the whole cue, I can see why JW did it. Now.... Padme's funeral and Vader looking out at the death star. WTAF. I can perhaps see that because the story switches between the birth and Vader's bits maybe JW decided to focus entirely on the 'happy' path, but it's still a huge omission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Williams edits out a lot of crappy bits that don't work. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,625 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Call me 3 years ago when I still cared about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMan 16 Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 On 11/9/2020 at 7:26 PM, Jurassic Shark said: meant an insert into JW's original composition, with pencil and paper Okay, excuse me for the misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, CuriousMan said: Okay, excuse me for the misunderstanding. No prob, man! CuriousMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMan 16 Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 Something else: Isn't the title "Rescuing Sarah" a case of mislabeling? Wouldn't this title refer more to the pain of glass scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Yep. Williams often uses goofy names for his OST albums. During the composing process he titled the cue "Truck Stop" CuriousMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Well, technically Eddie is rescuing Sarah during that cue plays. The only issue here is that the boys, Ian and Nick, were somehow overlooked by Williams. Classic. CuriousMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,173 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Jay said: Yep. Williams often uses goofy names for his OST albums. During the composing process he titled the cue "Truck Stop" See also Hogwarts Forever. Which goes with the matching lyrics, but is clearly specifically used as a Gryffindor theme throughout the score. Perhaps the melody based on the words came first, before Williams decided what to use it for - at least with the complete release and the bonus track with voices it's understandable where the piece got its title from. CuriousMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 I used to think it functioned as a Gryffindor theme too, but when working on the box set realized it was always a theme for Hogwarts overall. It only seems like a Gryffindor theme in the final cut of the film because Columbus dialed out a lot of non-Gryffindor-centric instances Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Yeah, the very first mention of Hogwarts was scored with an ultimately unused statement of the theme, as was the first daytime establishing shot of the castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Yea so when it plays at the end as Gryffindor wins the house cup, it's really celebrating good triumphing over evil at Hogwarts moreso than Gryffindor kids getting more points than Slytherin kids CuriousMan and Datameister 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,173 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay said: I used to think it functioned as a Gryffindor theme too, but when working on the box set realized it was always a theme for Hogwarts overall. It only seems like a Gryffindor theme in the final cut of the film because Columbus dialed out a lot of non-Gryffindor-centric instances That's odd, because e.g. in the Quidditch music it's timed perfectly for Gryffindor's moments, as opposed to Slytherin's (or anything else). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Yup it sure is! It functions as both things, I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Agreed 100%. Williams has never been super pedantic about his themes' leitmotivic meanings. It's a nice school song, but it also has a great victorious sound that fits emotionally with Gryffindor's victories, since we as the audience are meant to root for them. Smeltington and MrJosh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMan 16 Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 On 12/8/2020 at 5:55 PM, Jay said: Yep. Williams often uses goofy names for his OST albums. I see, interesting how Williams does this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Thankfully he's far below Giacchino's level of goofiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,671 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 On 12/8/2020 at 11:38 PM, Datameister said: Agreed 100%. Williams has never been super pedantic about his themes' leitmotivic meanings. It's a nice school song, but it also has a great victorious sound that fits emotionally with Gryffindor's victories, since we as the audience are meant to root for them. Yes, I've always seen it as a general 'school' theme, and used in suitably good/heroic moments. Ever since Shore/PJ used Nature's Reclamation as a general 'heroic' theme in LotR, I've felt it's a bit futile to try to strictly associate themes. Remember that JNH tried every theme he had for the Fantastic Beasts opening titles until Yates was happy, and who knows where else he had to try multiple themes. I'm sure there are fans who like to think their favourite composer has an absolute command of all the themes they composed and their meaning, but I suspect in practice, they just go with what sounds best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,173 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Yes, I've always seen it as a general 'school' theme, and used in suitably good/heroic moments. The thing is, at least in the finished film, it's mostly used clearly very specifically for Gryffindor, never for Slytherin, and perhaps occasionally for "positive Hogwarts school stuff" - which always means Gryffindor to at least a good extent, since Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw are basically nonexistent in the film's story. At least that's the clear impression I get when I watch the film (and I just watched it last week). Williams' original intention may have been different, but if the Gryffindor relation ist just a result of the editing, they had a very exact music editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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