mxsch 115 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I've read about this somewhere but can't remember where exactly. What I mean is similar thing in the ending of The Rebels Escape Again and there are other examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 A cadence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 Just now, Jurassic Shark said: A cadence? I think so. Can you throw in some more examples where JW use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 A cadence is an essential part of the musical grammar. All phrases end with a cadence. But to elaborate on the specifics of the ones used in your examples, I'm not the best person to ask. Perhaps @Falstaft could say something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 We can't help you if you only provide one example. You need to provide multiple examples so we know what you're talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 A great example is ALSA Sprach Zarazustra prelude. The whole thing is cadences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 We'd love to help @mxsch, but like @Jay says it's hard to know exactly what you're thinking of without more examples, or more specificity within the example you're citing. It could be a cadence, like @Jurassic Sharksays, but that's a pretty foundational aspect of musical organization. That said, if you're curious, you might get a kick out of this: https://mtosmt.org/issues/mto.13.19.4/mto.13.19.4.lehman.html... Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 It's called an orchestra. It makes pretty sounds! (Sorry for the snark. As others have said, yeah, we need a lot more information. What specific moment are your asking about, and what element of it? Instrumentation? Harmony? Melody?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 From 2:39 to 2:47 Or there is nothing special about it? 3 hours ago, Falstaft said: We'd love to help @mxsch, but like @Jay says it's hard to know exactly what you're thinking of without more examples, or more specificity within the example you're citing. It could be a cadence, like @Jurassic Sharksays, but that's a pretty foundational aspect of musical organization. That said, if you're curious, you might get a kick out of this: https://mtosmt.org/issues/mto.13.19.4/mto.13.19.4.lehman.html... 1 hour ago, Datameister said: It's called an orchestra. It makes pretty sounds! (Sorry for the snark. As others have said, yeah, we need a lot more information. What specific moment are your asking about, and what element of it? Instrumentation? Harmony? Melody?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoreman36 68 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Do you mean the movement after the chord has been reached? I think you’re talking about the Lydian mode - basically a standard major scale where the 4th is raised (like playing an all-white note scale starting on F). Falstaft and oierem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, scoreman36 said: Do you mean the movement after the chord has been reached? I think you’re talking about the Lydian mode - basically a standard major scale where the 4th is raised (like playing an all-white note scale starting on F). Second @scoreman36 that the Lydian quality is what might be catching your ear here, D-lydian in this case, after a big cadence off of a bII/^5 dominant. Both very *Star Warsy* sounds, especially in conjunction with one another at a moment of victorious climax. Another example of this exact same harmonic gesture bII/^5 => I(lyd) is the end of Battle of Endor: https://youtu.be/RT1763QZQvI?t=323 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Throwing in another vote for Lydian mode being the most likely answer to your question, but you're still being vague, @mxsch, so it's hard to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 214 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 If you want to talk about the descending "melody" in those seconds, it's using the "lydian mode" - essentially a modified major scale with a sharp 4th note. This modality creates a sense of wonder - it's used everywhere in Williams' music for E.T. There's a sustained D5 chord which is held by the orchestra, and the entire ensemble is performing a decrescendo/diminuendo - gradually getting softer. This combination of effects creates a sense of resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Decrescendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarps 217 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 55 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Decrescendo Diminuendo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Decrescendo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, tmarps said: Diminuendo? Yes. But that is technically a performance guide for the performer and conductor; not a compositional device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 In case you're really looking to get into the weeds here, this is a nice reference: karelm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Falstaft said: In case you're really looking to get into the weeds here, this is a nice reference: Oh, I've noticed one thing in your guide of themes. It seems that Anthem of Evil is missing in the list of concert arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, mxsch said: Oh, I've noticed one thing in your guide of themes. It seems that Anthem of Evil is missing in the list of concert arrangements. Good catch! -- I'm not quite ready to call the Anthem of Evil a concert arrangement, since the album version really sounds like a fusion (sometimes rather inartful) of several discrete cues. We'll see if the theme ever gets expanded/refined/arranged... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, Falstaft said: I'm not quite ready to call the Anthem of Evil a concert arrangement, since the album version really sounds like a fusion (sometimes rather inartful) of several discrete cues. I agree about that assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That_Bloke 115 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I'll have a go, without knowing if you're talking about orchestration, tonality, melodic style etc. This sounds like a Tierce de Picardie with Coda. A TdP is a specific type of cadence (i.e. movement between two consecutive chords), where changes modality (not key). The music is in a minor key, but when it gets the end, instead of sounding the "home" chord (or tonic chord) in what is meant to be minor, it changes the home chord to a major chord. E.G. Let's say a piece of music is in the key of D minor. When you get to the end of the piece you're expecting to hear a D minor chord - and also because technically that's what's meant to happen. But the piece plays a D Major chord instead. It's common in Medieval and Renaissance music. That's what this piece sounds like to me. Except once Williams hits the TdP instead of ending it there he keeps it going with a "Coda" of extra music based on that chord and, as @Archive Collection correctly stated, uses the lydian mode through the coda, and as @Jurassic Shark said, a decrescendo. (for ease of explaining I left out talk of relative majors and mid-piece modulations). Hope this helps Datameister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 hours ago, That_Bloke said: I'll have a go, without knowing if you're talking about orchestration, tonality, melodic style etc. This sounds like a Tierce de Picardie with Coda. A TdP is a specific type of cadence (i.e. movement between two consecutive chords), where changes modality (not key). The music is in a minor key, but when it gets the end, instead of sounding the "home" chord (or tonic chord) in what is meant to be minor, it changes the home chord to a major chord. E.G. Let's say a piece of music is in the key of D minor. When you get to the end of the piece you're expecting to hear a D minor chord - and also because technically that's what's meant to happen. But the piece plays a D Major chord instead. It's common in Medieval and Renaissance music. That's what this piece sounds like to me. Except once Williams hits the TdP instead of ending it there he keeps it going with a "Coda" of extra music based on that chord and, as @Archive Collection correctly stated, uses the lydian mode through the coda, and as @Jurassic Shark said, a decrescendo. (for ease of explaining I left out talk of relative majors and mid-piece modulations). Hope this helps Tierce de Picardie, eh? I hadn't ever heard that term but I love that harmonic technique. Great to know what it's called! Cheers! EDIT: Ah, I've heard the English translation, I'm realizing, but somehow never learned the definition. Love me some Picardy thirds! That_Bloke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,082 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Datameister said: Ah, I've heard the English translation, I'm realizing, but somehow never learned the definition. Love me some Picardy thirds! The German term is a direct translation, "Picardsche Terz". Because of that, it was once known as the Pikachu-Terz in our choir practice session. Star of Bethlehem has a nice one in the middle section. That_Bloke and Fabulin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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