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What’s the “main theme” from Hook?


What’s the “main theme” from Hook?  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. What’s the “main theme” from Hook?

    • Peter’s Fanfare/Flight Theme
      14
    • Hook’s Theme
      1
    • Childhood Theme
      6
    • Neverland Theme
      2
    • “When You’re Alone” Theme
      0
    • Tinkerbell’s Theme
      0
    • Lost Boys/“Neverfeast” Theme
      0
    • “Face of Pan” Theme
      0


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Thought I’d ask a question about my favorite score of all time. With the over abundance of thematic material in Hook, which do you consider the “Main Theme” from Hook? I don’t think it’s always determined by how frequently it’s used. Perhaps that’s just me. 
 

This might be a tricky question and it may come down to your interpretation.  But by “Main Theme” I mean what Luke’s Theme/Main Titles is to Star Wars or “The Raiders March” is to Indiana Jones. 

There are of course other obvious motifs and set pieces in Hook (the “low below” motif, “Banning Back Home”, “You Are The Pan”, etc) So if you feel one of those are clearly the main theme of the entire score I’ll add them too.
 

 

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Points against:    It's a theme he put in a teaser cue that he later decided to open the OST album with.  it doesn't "open the score"; it opens the OST album.   You hear it on the

Actually now that I am thinking about it, there are several great scores in history where you'd have trouble discerning the "main" theme.   "Main theme" is more than anything else an academi

Great question!   I think the theme the poll calls "Peter’s Fanfare/Flight Theme" is this one: Prologue (0:32 and 1:12), The Never-Feast (3:20), Remembering Childhood (8:47 and 9:30 an

The Neverland Theme pops up at about 1:56 into “From Mermaids to Lost Boys” on the ost. On the expanded release it’s all of the “Exit music” track.

 

Face of Pan/You Are the Pan is indeed truly extraordinary music. I never considered it being a contender for the main theme of the whole film though. But I’ll put it on here and people can make their case for why it’s the main theme:)

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56 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Interesting that everyone here seems to know which theme is which. There are multiple melodies that I would associate with captain Hook. And the "Flight to Neverland" consists already of two themes I would say. And what is the Neverland theme? And why is the face of Pan not in the list?

 

On 9/19/2020 at 10:35 AM, Jay said:

Dan Schweiger's liner notes in the 2012 LLL CD list the songs

  1. We Don't Wanna Grow Up - Definitely filmed / Finished version of song appears in the theatrical cut / on the OST and LLL CD / Melody never used again
  2. Low Below - Definitely filmed (images posted a few posts up, lyrics found in shooting script sold on ebay) / Cut from final theatrical version / Unknown if finished version of song ever made / Melody incorporated into score (Presenting The Hook 1:22 + LLL Pirates! 0:31)
  3. Believe - Probably never filmed / Melody incorporated into score (From Mermaids To Lost Boys 1:57, Remembering Childhood 2:57, 3:21 and 4:14, Farewell Neverland 0:15, 1:23, 1:56)
  4. Pick Em Up - Definitely filmed / Finished version of song appears in the theatrical cut, but edited down / Full lyrics available here / Was not on the OST or LLL CD or any leak / Melody never used again
  5. Stick With Me - Probably never filmed / Melody incorporated into score (Presenting The Hook 1:54, Smee's Plan 0:07 and 1:11, The Ultimate War 0:31, 2:09, 4:23, 4:34, 5:42, and 7:02 + LLL Pirates! 0:07 and 0:26)
  6. Childhood - Probably never filmed / Lyrics published in 1992 / Fan-made recording here / Melody incorporated into score (Granny Wendy 0:55, The Arrival of Tink and The Flight To Neverland 5:07, From Mermaids To Lost Boys 3:57 and 4:05, The Never-Feast 0:47 and 0:57, Remembering Childhood 2:38, 5:10, 7:34, 8:37, 9:07, 9:59, 10:19, The Ultimate War 7:42, Farewell Neverland 0:00, 7:52, 8:54 + LLL The Nursery 0:25, The Watch 0:32, Hook Challenges Peter 0:12)
  7. When You're All Alone - Definitely filmed / Finished version of song appears in the theatrical cut / On the OST and LLL CD / Melody incorporated into score (The Never-Feast 3:53, Remembering Childhood 0:00 and 1:01, The Ultimate War 7:18, Farewell Neverland 7:24, 8:11 + LLL The Watch 0:00)

 

It is currently unknown if the other recurring themes in the score began life as song demos or not

  1. The first theme heard in the teaser trailer (Prologue 0:06 and 1:03) heard in Hook-Napped (0:11 and 0:36 and 2:20) and a cue not on the OST
  2. The second theme heard in the teaser trailer (Prologue 0:32 and 1:12) heard in The Never-Feast (3:20) and Remembering Childhood (8:47 and 9:30 and 9:46 and 10:34) and The Ultimate War (0:05, 1:03, 1:28, 2:32, 2:54, 3:11, 3:22, 4:30, 5:07, 5:15, 5:32)
  3. The theme for Tinkerbell heard in We Don't Wanna Grow Up (0:09), The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland (1:53)
  4. The Home-Alone-esque theme for family heard in Granny Wendy (0:12) and Farewell Neverland (6:00, 6:10, 6:55, 8:25, 9:14, 9:47)
  5. The theme for Hook heard in Hook-Napped (0:54 and 1:13 and 1:49 and 2:30) and LLL tracks The Bedroom (0:20, 0:35), Pirates! (0:22, 0:40, 1:04,1:27, 2:02, 2:15), and Hook Challenges Peter (0:06)
  6. The theme for Peter's relationship with the Lost Boys heard in You Are The Pan (2:27 and 3:15)
  7. The theme for the Lost Boys heard in The Banquet (0:20 and 1:41 and 2:22) and The Never-Feast (0:05 and 0:34 and 1:16) and The Ultimate War (3:42, 6:20) and cues not on the OST
  8. The fanfare heard in The Ultimate War (1:18,1:48, 2:24)
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So the Neverland theme was was the main melody for the “Believe” song it seems. Cool. 
 

Man. Score-wise I was pretty satisfied with the LLL release (blasphemous here I know) I re-edited some of the cues according to the spreadsheet Jay listed and now it doesn’t bother me at all. But it will be fascinating to hear all the original songs written at some point. I’m sure a 4-CD release will be the way to go.

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See two posts before yours.


We don't know the "names" of any themes; All we know are the names of 7 song titles Briscusse came up with, that can be used to described the themes too.


But for the other 8 themes that don't have song versions, there's no "official" titles; It's not like Williams has ever said what he thinks of them as or anything.


Some are blatantly obvious what they represent, like the theme for Tinkerbell or the theme for The Lost Boys.  Others are more nebulous is what they represent.

 

Anyway, this particular theme has been referred to by many as the "flying theme", though it's also used plenty of times when he's not flying.  It was used in the teaser trailer, then first appears in the film after he instinctively cuts the coconut in half, then finally appears in full form after "Remembering Childooh" when he remembers everything and flies around.  I've also seen people calling "Peter Pan's" theme.

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5 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Isn't the flying theme this one at 5:20?

 

 

 

That's Childhood.  It's the same theme that was already playing right before from 5:07-5:20.

 

 

6 minutes ago, mstrox said:

The main theme is the one that opens Prologue, no clue what it's called.

 

Another theme with no name.  That theme you are referring to only appears again in Hook-Napped, then disappears completely.  I don't know who would ever consider it to be the main theme of the score.

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Again, all known song names are in the post I quoted a few posts up now.  

There are no "official" theme names for this score.

 

I don't know specifically what you are asking about now, can you be more clear?

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Again, all known song names are in the post I quoted a few posts up now.  

There are no "official" theme names for this score.

 

I don't know specifically what you are asking about now, can you be more clear?

 

I guess what I am saying is, is this even a legitimate poll if it only provides names and there is vast disagreement about the names. What are people even voting for? 

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Great question!

 

I think the theme the poll calls "Peter’s Fanfare/Flight Theme" is this one:

  • Prologue (0:32 and 1:12), The Never-Feast (3:20), Remembering Childhood (8:47 and 9:30 and 9:46 and 10:34), The Ultimate War (0:05, 1:03, 1:28, 2:32, 2:54, 3:11, 3:22, 4:30, 5:07, 5:15, 5:32)

I think the theme the poll calls "Hook’s Theme" could be either this one:

  • Stick With Me - Presenting The Hook (1:54), Smee's Plan (0:07 and 1:11), The Ultimate War (0:31, 2:09, 4:23, 4:34, 5:42, and 7:02), Pirates! (0:07 and 0:26)

or  this one:

  • Low Below - Presenting The Hook (1:22), Pirates! (0:31)

or  this one:

  • Hook-Napped (0:54 and 1:13 and 1:49 and 2:30), The Bedroom (0:20, 0:35), Pirates! (0:22, 0:40, 1:04, 1:27, 2:02, 2:15), Hook Challenges Peter (0:06)

or this one:

  • Prologue (0:06 and 1:03), Hook-Napped (0:11, 0:36, 2:20), Hook Challenges Peter (3:15), The Ultimate War: The Death of Rufio (2:13)

The theme the poll calls "Childhood Theme" is definitely this one:

  • Childhood - Granny Wendy (0:55), The Arrival of Tink and The Flight To Neverland (5:07), From Mermaids To Lost Boys (3:57 and 4:05), The Never-Feast (0:47 and 0:57), Remembering Childhood (2:38, 5:10, 7:34, 8:37, 9:07, 9:59, 10:19), The Ultimate War (7:42), Farewell Neverland (0:00, 7:52, 8:54), The Nursery (0:25), The Watch (0:32), Hook Challenges Peter (0:12)

The theme the poll calls "Neverland theme" is probably this one:

  • Believe - From Mermaids To Lost Boys (1:57), Remembering Childhood (2:57, 3:21 and 4:14), Farewell Neverland (0:15, 1:23, 1:56)

The theme the poll calls “When You’re Alone” Theme is of course

  • When You're Alone - The Never-Feast (3:53), Remembering Childhood (0:00 and 1:01), The Ultimate War (7:18), Farewell Neverland (7:24, 8:11), The Watch (0:00)

The theme the poll calls "Tinkerbell’s Theme" is certainly

  • We Don't Wanna Grow Up (0:09), The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland (1:53)

The theme the poll calls "Lost Boys/“Neverfeast” Theme" has got to be

  • The Banquet (0:20 and 1:41 and 2:22), The Never-Feast (0:05 and 0:34 and 1:16), The Ultimate War (3:42, 6:20) 

The theme the poll calls “Face of Pan” Theme is definitely

  • You Are The Pan (2:27 and 3:15)

 

The theme that represents family isn't on the poll at all

  • Granny Wendy (0:12), Farewell Neverland (6:00, 6:10, 6:55, 8:25, 9:14, 9:47)

 

Nor is the fanfare heard during The Ultimate War

  • The Ultimate War (1:18, 1:48, 2:24)

 

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I think there's a good argument to be made that when he wrote the teaser trailer music (which is what "Prologue" is), he made it a mini-suite of the main hero theme and the main villain theme.  But then as he wrote the entire score out later, the "hero" theme didn't make sense to introduce until he cuts the coconut, and then disappear again until he regains all his memories and flies out of Tink's home, and the "villain" theme only sounded good in the "Hook-napped" cues and they he just used Stick With Me, Low Below, or the other Hook theme for all of Hook's scenes once we start actually seeing Hook on screen.

 

 

 

I consider "Childhood" to be the main theme of the score because it appears more frequently than any other theme, and is used throughout the entire movie.  It's the first bit of score you hear in the entire film (as Granny Wendy walks down the stairs; I consider Tink's Theme appearing during the opening play to be source music), and is used all the way through to the very end of the film - AND is the main theme that opens the end credits AND is the most prominent theme in the "Flight to Neverland" concert cue.

 

It's the main theme.

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34 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

That's Childhood.  It's the same theme that was already playing right before from 5:07-5:20.

 

 

 

Another theme with no name.  That theme you are referring to only appears again in Hook-Napped, then disappears completely.  I don't know who would ever consider it to be the main theme of the score.

 

I would!  Because it's the theme that opens the score, and it's real good!

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14 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I would!  Because it's the theme that opens the score, and it's real good!

 

Points against: 

 

It's a theme he put in a teaser cue that he later decided to open the OST album with.  it doesn't "open the score"; it opens the OST album.

 

You hear it on the OST album in track #1 and track #5 and then never again.

 

Points for:

 

On "The Lost World" original OST album, you only hear "The Lost World Theme" in track #1 and track #3 (ok, also more subtly in track 14) yet there's no denying it's the "main theme" of that score. :devil:

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, King Mark said:

well the hero fanfare (prologue) is also the one that opens the Flying Sequence and it's a showcase cue  in the film

 

When Tinkerbell flies Peter to Neverland, that's another huge showcase cue, and it's the Childhood theme blasting the entire time

 

 

 

Counterpoint to all points: 

This score has no main theme!  But a ton of themes good enough to be the main theme of any other score :love2:

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36 minutes ago, Jay said:

Points for:

 

On "The Lost World" original OST album, you only hear "The Lost World Theme" in track #1 and track #3 (ok, also more subtly in track 14) yet there's no denying it's the "main theme" of that score.

Yeah. But only on the album. In the actual film TLW I remember hearing the main theme in about Half of the action guess because Spielberg liked it so much.

 

BTW What about this Smee's Plan or Presenting the Hook theme? Ok. It is for sure not the main theme, but so is When you're Alone. And that one I can vote.

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Another theme with no name.  That theme you are referring to only appears again in Hook-Napped, then disappears completely.  I don't know who would ever consider it to be the main theme of the score.

 

That "prologue" theme does appear twice more in the score: first in the unused section of the first Hook-Peter scene and later right before the final duel begins.

 

But I agree with you: Childhood (which I've always considered Wendy's theme or the Neverland theme, following John Takis' analysis of the score) is clearly the main theme of the score. 

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Sorry. Haven’t checked back in a while. The theme names I was sorta taking from the liner notes from the LaLa Land release. Sorry for the confusion.

 

The “Hook Theme” I was referring to was the main March-like cue best showcased in “presenting the hook”. Although there are other motifs associated with Captain Hook (like the music in “hook-napped”)

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31 minutes ago, oierem said:

 

That "prologue" theme does appear twice more in the score: first in the unused section of the first Hook-Peter scene and later right before the final duel begins.


Yea it appears in Hoist The Kiddies at 1:08 (LLL disc 1 track 13 "Hook Challenges Peter" 3:15) and The Sword Fight at 0:00 (LLL disc 2 track 6 "The Ultimate War: The Death of Rufio" 2:13)

 

But neither are on the OST album (I should have worded my post better)

 

Quote

 

But I agree with you: Childhood (which I've always considered Wendy's theme or the Neverland theme, following John Takis' analysis of the score) is clearly the main theme of the score. 

 

Yea in the film you assume it's Wendy's theme at first since it appears blatantly when she first appears on screen, but then it's just kind of used constantly from that point on underscoring all sorts of unreleated things the whole time in Neverland

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14 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Williams main themes are sometimes lost in the score right?

 

Sometimes, yea!  Just look at The Lost World, for example already mentioned.  He wrote it into the score twice, when Malcolm arrives on the island, and when Malcolm leaves the island.  Well, and then that subtle reference in the finale track... but then gives it a whole concert arrangement as the end credits.

 

Quote

Take War Horse, the main theme is the beginning and the end but I think missing a lot from the score.

 

When Albert and Joey are together it's heard a lot, then disappears as the war takes them apart.  By the time they are reunited, it's transformed into the Reunion theme.  It's brilliant.

 

Quote

Star Wars. Its in the main title but the actual main theme is the Force theme.

 

I dunno.  Of course The Force Theme became the primary theme of the saga.  But if you look at just the original film and ignore every thing else, the main character is Luke, so his personal theme is played as a march over the opening crawl.  It makes sense.

 

9 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

Hmmm.

Are end credits suites indicative of what Williams considers the main theme of the movie?...

 

I don't even know if we can assume that Williams always thinks of all his scores as having a "main" theme.  We may be projecting ideals onto the main that he doesn't follow himself.

 

Quote

I go back to the Childhood theme opening the end credits suite of Hook as the main theme. The Peter/Flight Fanfare is strangely absent...

 

Sure, but then the "Flight to Neverland" concert suite basically combines the end credits version of Childhood with the Flying Sequence version of Childhood (and other stuff like the Prologue opening)

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

Great question!

 

I think the theme the poll calls "Peter’s Fanfare/Flight Theme" is this one:

  • Prologue (0:32 and 1:12), The Never-Feast (3:20), Remembering Childhood (8:47 and 9:30 and 9:46 and 10:34), The Ultimate War (0:05, 1:03, 1:28, 2:32, 2:54, 3:11, 3:22, 4:30, 5:07, 5:15, 5:32)

I think the theme the poll calls "Hook’s Theme" could be either this one:

  • Stick With Me - Presenting The Hook (1:54), Smee's Plan (0:07 and 1:11), The Ultimate War (0:31, 2:09, 4:23, 4:34, 5:42, and 7:02), Pirates! (0:07 and 0:26)

or  this one:

  • Low Below - Presenting The Hook (1:22), Pirates! (0:31)

or  this one:

  • Hook-Napped (0:54 and 1:13 and 1:49 and 2:30), The Bedroom (0:20, 0:35), Pirates! (0:22, 0:40, 1:04, 1:27, 2:02, 2:15), Hook Challenges Peter (0:06)

or this one:

  • Prologue (0:06 and 1:03), Hook-Napped (0:11, 0:36, 2:20), Hook Challenges Peter (3:15), The Ultimate War: The Death of Rufio (2:13)

The theme the poll calls "Childhood Theme" is definitely this one:

  • Childhood - Granny Wendy (0:55), The Arrival of Tink and The Flight To Neverland (5:07), From Mermaids To Lost Boys (3:57 and 4:05), The Never-Feast (0:47 and 0:57), Remembering Childhood (2:38, 5:10, 7:34, 8:37, 9:07, 9:59, 10:19), The Ultimate War (7:42), Farewell Neverland (0:00, 7:52, 8:54), The Nursery (0:25), The Watch (0:32), Hook Challenges Peter (0:12)

The theme the poll calls "Neverland theme" is probably this one:

  • Believe - From Mermaids To Lost Boys (1:57), Remembering Childhood (2:57, 3:21 and 4:14), Farewell Neverland (0:15, 1:23, 1:56)

The theme the poll calls “When You’re Alone” Theme is of course

  • When You're Alone - The Never-Feast (3:53), Remembering Childhood (0:00 and 1:01), The Ultimate War (7:18), Farewell Neverland (7:24, 8:11), The Watch (0:00)

The theme the poll calls "Tinkerbell’s Theme" is certainly

  • We Don't Wanna Grow Up (0:09), The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland (1:53)

The theme the poll calls "Lost Boys/“Neverfeast” Theme" has got to be

  • The Banquet (0:20 and 1:41 and 2:22), The Never-Feast (0:05 and 0:34 and 1:16), The Ultimate War (3:42, 6:20) 

The theme the poll calls “Face of Pan” Theme is definitely

  • You Are The Pan (2:27 and 3:15)

 

The theme that represents family isn't on the poll at all

  • Granny Wendy (0:12), Farewell Neverland (6:00, 6:10, 6:55, 8:25, 9:14, 9:47)

 

Nor is the fanfare heard during The Ultimate War

  • The Ultimate War (1:18, 1:48, 2:24)

 

@Jay. The family theme you mention here...In the booklet for the 2012 version he refers to it as “Tootles Theme” . Probably because we first hear it during his “No more happy thoughts...” line while he’s looking out the window. But I like the broader family application of it. Especially at the end of the film. And as we know Williams isn’t always super literal with his thematic application. 

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Actually now that I am thinking about it, there are several great scores in history where you'd have trouble discerning the "main" theme.

 

"Main theme" is more than anything else an academic concept. We the listeners apply it to a work because we want order and structure to analyze the work and understand it and unpack it. But the composer doesn't write that way. They are not writing from some strict theory - at least most aren't.

 

Even so it is a pleasing concept as it can act as a unifying construct for the entire work. Sometimes the lack of a primary idea can be seen as detrimental.

 

I think of main theme as the one which generally personifies the concept of the movie or the narrative. 

 

Given this definition I would choose 0:32 prologue as it best represents the swashbuckling quality of the score and the movie.

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Generally speaking, I'd say the main theme of any score is the theme that is heard most prominently/frequently.

Based on these two aspects, the "Childhood" theme is clearly the winner: it's (by far) the most quoted theme in the score, and has many prominent moments. It's definitely the theme that a regular viewer would hum after watching the movie - the one that sticks out the most. 

Before I had any active interest in film scores, "Childhood" was one of those melodies that I knew and identified with the movie. Long before I even paid attention to other themes.

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2 hours ago, blondheim said:

I've never really thought of Hook as a score that needed a main theme. It's greatest asset is the strength of its themes and then how many of those themes there are.

 

Yes! 

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Usually the main theme is the one most memorable to you from a movie, so I'd say

 

G E - G E - A G F# G E - C B A G D - A G F E D - F E D C B C

 

The others people listed, like Prologue, while they appear in more pivotal and vigorous moments, they don't feel as catchy or memorable for a main theme. 

 

They're as pretty great though as A C B A A E - A C - A C B A C E A C F# A

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This is the main theme of Star Wars :D

 

 

On 11/16/2020 at 12:50 PM, Jay said:

I think there's a good argument to be made that when he wrote the teaser trailer music (which is what "Prologue" is), he made it a mini-suite of the main hero theme and the main villain theme.  But then as he wrote the entire score out later, the "hero" theme didn't make sense to introduce until he cuts the coconut, and then disappear again until he regains all his memories and flies out of Tink's home, and the "villain" theme only sounded good in the "Hook-napped" cues and they he just used Stick With Me, Low Below, or the other Hook theme for all of Hook's scenes once we start actually seeing Hook on screen.

 

 

 

I consider "Childhood" to be the main theme of the score because it appears more frequently than any other theme, and is used throughout the entire movie.  It's the first bit of score you hear in the entire film (as Granny Wendy walks down the stairs; I consider Tink's Theme appearing during the opening play to be source music), and is used all the way through to the very end of the film - AND is the main theme that opens the end credits AND is the most prominent theme in the "Flight to Neverland" concert cue.

 

It's the main theme.

 

There you go, you explained what I had thought. I didn't understand these different theme names, but now that you defined them all I think we should do a recount of legal votes.

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