Michael Giacchino's SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME (2021)

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

12 minutes ago, His Royal Noelness said:

I miss Horner. I wish he’d gotten to score the second one too.

It was such a surprise that he scored this film given the types of films he generally scored at that stage of his career, but he did a great job.

 

Interesting the thoughts on the various Spider-Man themes. Elfman's great, but as I think was noted in one of the FSM podcasts, the theme itself relatively simple but works superbly with the running strings and percussion. Horner's is one of those melodies that I find humming to myself curiously often, a total earworm. However, oddly, for me, Giacchino's theme feels the most appropriate to the character. I can't quite put my finger on why, guess it feels a bit more light and less grandly heroic than the others. A more everyday hero theme somehow.

 

No Way Home downloaded... first listen, imminent...

[NL197 368]

When it comes to Zimmer's TASM 2, I'd have swallowed all of it - the rap chanting voices, the dubstep, the relentlessness of the music always playing with a rhythm and rarely calming down....if Zimmer had just used Horner's melody for Spider-Man instead of that sound-alike Copland / Network News trumpet thing. 

Keep everything else, but use the Horner theme, even if it's just the first 5 notes of it as a calling card like the 3 Zimmer did. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

5 hours ago, NL197 said:

When it comes to Zimmer's TASM 2, I'd have swallowed all of it - the rap chanting voices, the dubstep, the relentlessness of the music always playing with a rhythm and rarely calming down....if Zimmer had just used Horner's melody for Spider-Man instead of that sound-alike Copland / Network News trumpet thing. 

Keep everything else, but use the Horner theme, even if it's just the first 5 notes of it as a calling card like the 3 Zimmer did. 

I echo this. Just keep the theme and do what you want after that. 
 

I rewatched TASM2 last night and it isn’t that bad. I mean, it does have a lot of issues but there’s a decent film in there. Garfield and Stone were great. 
 

I hope Garfield gets a TASM3 some day with competent writers and without studio interference.

 

 

[Mephariel 451]

2 hours ago, His Royal Noelness said:

I echo this. Just keep the theme and do what you want after that. 
 

I rewatched TASM2 last night and it isn’t that bad. I mean, it does have a lot of issues but there’s a decent film in there. Garfield and Stone were great. 
 

I hope Garfield gets a TASM3 some day with competent writers and without studio interference.

 

 

 

I prefer ZImmer didn't use Horner's theme. Horner's score is one of my favorite superhero scores ever, but I like the idea of composers creating their own themes. I think it makes for an extremely interesting discussion. I love discussing how Elfman, Horner, Zimmer, and Gia saw the character and the approaches that they took. 

[NL197 368]

That's fair, however Zimmer's theme is so close to Horner's it's like he tried to sound like that without actually just using it. Like an imitation. That's what annoys me about Zimmer's theme the most. It's like Webb said "use James' theme, but don't use James' theme you get me?"

 

I think that film nails Spider-Man himself. Garfield is fire as Spider-Man. It's like they did him justice, perfected everything, but took a shit on everything else by either half-assing the rest (Electro), or just...what the hell was Dane DeHaan supposed to do with that turd of a character? 

And then there's Gwen at the end. Her and Peter made a great pair and a great team and then she bumped her head. Time for the dog poop bags. 

[Arpy 4,145]

3 hours ago, His Royal Noelness said:

 

I hope Garfield gets a TASM3 some day with competent writers and without studio interference.

 

 

This is the most unlikely event in existence. I think Garfield has moved on and so has everyone else.

[Mephariel 451]

2 hours ago, NL197 said:

That's fair, however Zimmer's theme is so close to Horner's it's like he tried to sound like that without actually just using it. Like an imitation. That's what annoys me about Zimmer's theme the most. It's like Webb said "use James' theme, but don't use James' theme you get me?"

 

I think that film nails Spider-Man himself. Garfield is fire as Spider-Man. It's like they did him justice, perfected everything, but took a shit on everything else by either half-assing the rest (Electro), or just...what the hell was Dane DeHaan supposed to do with that turd of a character? 

And then there's Gwen at the end. Her and Peter made a great pair and a great team and then she bumped her head. Time for the dog poop bags. 

 

That is kind of amusing in that Horner's theme always bothers me because it is basically the same as the Karate Kid theme that he scored earlier. I actually think Horner's theme is the weakest part of the score. The intelligence of that score is what astounds me the most. I wish more superhero scores are that intelligent.

 

Update:

Just listened to the score. Massive disappointment. This is easily the weakest Spider-Man score out of all the movies. The new material is barely interesting, and the way Giacchino incorporates the old themes are even worst than what Elfman did with Justice League. His own Spider-Man theme barely got any spotlight time. The mixing is bad, with an underwater filter not unlike Godzilla vs Kong. Overall, the composition isn't bad, but the music felt laborous, passionless, and just...dead.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Just starting to go through the score now and I'm just happy on a tribute and sentimental level that Giacchino honoured Horner. I adore Horner's theme. Also to hear Elfman's sombre, 8-note Responsibility theme...man that theme just hits hard. Elfman nailed that theme in every way.

[Arpy 4,145]

Just saw the film, and bad news for me - the score was nigh on inaudible for most of the action, and even the quieter segments were dialed down, making this score another in the ongoing trend of relegating the score to far background support. I could just about pick out the older themes Gia references, but that was a challenge too when it was buried so far down in the mix. This is such a saddening choice these filmmakers choose to the point that it's like they don't even need a score to convey any meaning or emotion - or action for that matter.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

I don't think there's any meaning to convey.

[Arpy 4,145]

12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I don't think there's any meaning to convey.

For this score, or scores in general - because this has happened to our dear JW too in recent years...

[crumbs 14,299]

29 minutes ago, Arpy said:

This is such a saddening choice these filmmakers choose to the point that it's like they don't even need a score to convey any meaning or emotion - or action for that matter.

 

At a certain point, composers need to stand up and (no pun intended) make some noise about this issue.

 

It's getting beyond ridiculous, yet thoroughly unsurprising when the people in charge of the sound mix are effectively the SFX department. The hierarchy is weighted against the music department.

[Zenon 2]

Could this be a cinema issue? I saw the film in IMAX and the score was blasting through the action scenes. I also had no problem with music standing out in the softer scenes, especially those with musical references near the end. I think MG did fine with the score and so many themes. His Spider Man and Dr Strange themes received some good developments throughout.

The only thing hurting the score for me is - as always with MG - album mixing.

[Arpy 4,145]

It's possible it was theatre to theatre mixing, but this issue has occurred across multiple films and theatres...

[leeallen01 2,133]

To anyone who has seen the film; are there any moments in the film where Elfman's main theme plays? (Not the 8 note responsibility theme heard in 'Shield of Pain')

[Jay 37,281]

There's gotta be issues with specific theaters because in my showing I could very clearly hear all the music very well the entire time. I'm sad to read others had the opposite experience in their theaters 

[bored 306]

2 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

To anyone who has seen the film; are there any moments in the film where Elfman's main theme plays? (Not the 8 note responsibility theme heard in 'Shield of Pain')

 

When Tobey first appears they play his Spider-Man theme in the brass and again in the celeste. Unfortunately that's all we get of it, but it's a nice nod anyway. 

[Jay 37,281]

Here’s what scenes the music in each OST track is for

 

 

Spoiler

01 Intro to Fake News (1:11)

 

Opening logos (Sony, Columbia, Marvel Studios).  A slowed-down rendition of Giacchino’s own Marvel Studios Fanfare from 0:33-end scores the Marvel Studios logo

 

02 World's Worst Friendly Neighbor (0:51)

 

Begins almost immediately after the previous cue, as Peter Parker’s face is revealed on the broadcast, and then scores Peter reacting to the broadcast, jumping down, and rescuing MJ from the crowd.  Once they take off, a Talking Heads song scores the rest of the scene.  This is one of the only cues in the entire score that doesn’t use any themes.

 

03 Damage Control (2:17)

 

Starts with the next JJJ broadcast, and continues through Damage Control showing up at their apartment and arresting them.  The Main Theme is used I think just to introduce it into the score.  Mysterio’s Theme begins playing when the London attack is shown.

 

04 Being A Spider Bites (1:05)

 

Peter and MJ talk about their situation on their Sony smartphones while Happy tries to sleep.  Unless I missed something, this is the only time in the entire score Giacchino uses MJ’s Theme.

 

05 Gone In A Flash (1:52)

 

The gang opens their rejection letters from MIT, Flash Thompson shows up and annoys them, Ned leaves and MJ goes back to work.  Doctor Strange’s Theme is introduced as Peter sees a wizard-themed Halloween decoration, clueing the audience into what he’s thinking about before it’s revealed.  (Side note, the actual establishing shot of the Sanctum Sanctorum is scored by a really cool unreleased cue with Doctor Strange’s theme backed by a harpsichord rhythm that REALLY should have been added to the end of this OST track!).

 

06 All Spell Breaks Loose (3:25)

 

The cue begins right after Peter says “Forget about it” and Wong replies “Oh he will, he’s really good at forgetting things“, which causes Strange to get the idea to use a memory spell.  The cue covers the entire casting of the spell using Doctor Strange’s Theme as the spell is nearing its completion

 

07 Otto Trouble (4:19)

 

[0:00-3:10] The very opening of the cue hinting at Elfman’s Doc Ock Theme begins when Peter’s Spider-sense kicks in while he’s talking to the MIT administrator, with the full statement of his proper theme held back until we see Molina’s face and he says “Hello, Peter”.  The cue covers all the initial bridge action, with the Main Theme appearing as he breaks free from Ock’s tentacles that were raising him towards spinning helicopter blades.  Elfman's Doc Ock’s Theme returns as he begins throwing concrete tubes towards Peter.  The cue ends as he successfully saves the MIT administrator's car from going over the bridge onto train tracks.

 

[3:10-end] The Main Theme underscores Peter’s iron spider-arms bringing him back up to the bridge, and Elfman's Doc Ock Theme is stated in full again as he rips a piece of Spider-man’s suit off and admires its nanotechnology covering one of his tentacles.

 

23B [9:31-end] "The Undercroft" (0:35)

 

This Main Theme presentation orchestrated using Doctor Strange instrumentation scores the main trio in Doctor Strange’s Undercoft hunting for more villains, and MJ finding Strange’s goatee template

 

08 Ghost Fighter In The Sky / Beach Blanket Bro Down (2:47)

 

[0:00-1:11] “Ghost FIghter In The Sky” - Begins as Doc Ock says “Norman Osborn died years ago, so either we saw someone else, or you’re flying out in the darkness to fight a ghost” and then covers Peter swinging from electric pole to electric pole, crosscut with Ned opening Strange’s fridge

 

[1:11-end] “Beach Blanket Bro Down” - Begins when MJ and Ned can no longer see what’s going on due to Peter and his phone being zapped, then covers Peter and Sandman teaming up to take care of Electro.  The Main Theme begins as Peter uses his webs to beginning pulling out the power wires from the tower to shut down Electro

 

09 Strange Bedfellows (1:45)

 

Begins as Sandman questions Peter about what he just did to Electro, but then as Peter zaps him into Strange’s cells as well, the Villain Theme is introduced and plays for the duration of the cue covering the 4 captured villains talking to each other and MJ informing them where they are

 

10 Sling vs Bling (5:00)

 

Peter pulls the box containing the spell from Strange, and escapes with it; The rest of the cue is a duel between the Main Theme and Doctor Strange’s Theme as the chase moves from New York City to the Mirror Dimension and beyond, ending as Peter wins and returns to the Sanctorum (somehow).

 

11 Octo Gone (3:34)

 

[0:00-1:06] The Villains Theme plays as Sandman and Electro discuss how Electro likes the power in this universe, Sandman wants to go back to his universe to see his daughter, and their shared origins of falling into different pools of bad stuff.

 

[1:06-2:26] Peter thinks his work on Doc Ock’s chip was a success, and goes out to the living room, gets Dock Ock into position, and installs it.

 

[2:26-end] The opening of Otto Trouble is repeated, hinting at the possible danger, but instead of going into a statement of Elfman's Doc Ock Theme, we go into the Main Theme because Peter’s work on the chip was successful, and Doc Ock is cured

 

12 No Good Deed (5:00)

 

Begins as soon as Peter finishes saying “May, run!” and she begins to run away; an intense iteration of the final 4 notes of the Villains Theme then blasts out as Electro removes his inhibitor and uses his powers to grab the arc reactor out of the Stark fabricator, revealing he has turned as well.  As the chaos occurs throughout Happy’s apartment building, various renditions of the Villains Theme play for moments such as Electro surveying the city as Sandman swirls around, the Lizard busting out of the van, and Norman and Peter fighting.  The final minute and a half of the cue covers Norman, Peter, and May in the lobby, with the Villain Theme returning as Norman’s glider appears and hits May, and gets a big statement as Norman hops on it and states “Peter, Peter, Peter, no good deed goes unpunished, you can thank me later” and takes off, bombing the building some more.  The closing moments cover May moving through the rubble towards Peter.

 

13 Exit Through The Lobby (4:15)

 

The Responsibility Theme is introduced and plays for the entire cue, which begins when Peter realizes May is injured more than expected and continues through her death and Happy’s arrival who tells Peter to leave as Damage Control is shooting at him.  The solo piano rendition that begins the second half covers the Peter alone in the rain seeing the news coverage, and Ned and MJ wondering where he is.

 

14 A Doom With A View (2:00)

 

MJ and Ned find Peter on the school roof, the Responsibility Theme playing as he is crying over Aunt May, and they comfort him.  A sad rendition of the Main Theme plays as Peter looks up to see the other Peters perched up high, and continues as the three of the talk, with the B section of the theme playing as Garfield says he understands what he’s going through.

 

15 Spider Baiting (1:35)

 

As Peter calls into JJJ’s tv show, the Cure Theme gets a long statement as he reveals he’s at the Statue of Liberty with the spell box that can send the villains home.  A mellow rendition of the Main Theme plays as the box is hung up with webs.

 

16 Liberty Parlance (1:28)

 

The three Peters discuss how they are getting their asses kicked because they are not working together, with the Main Theme entering on a close-up of Peter’s face when he learns the other Peters don’t have their own Avengers.  The climactic choir-backed rendition of the Main Theme covers the three Peters swinging out to face the villains together, the cue ending with the slow-motion shot of them jumping towards Electro, Sandman, and Lizard.

 

17 Monster Smash (1:21)

 

The 3 Peters battle Electro, Sandman, and the Lizard, with the Main Theme playing as Garfield soars out, grabs the Sandman cure, and tosses it to Maguire.

 

18 Arc Reactor (2:57)

 

Elfman’s Green Goblin Theme underscores a sequence of shots showing Electro obtaining electricity to charge up his arc reactor (I'm not sure why this theme is used here).  Shortly after the 3 Spider-men team up to attack him together, the first 3 notes of the Villains Theme plays as The Lizard is shown escaping from the webbing he had been placed in.  After he chases MJ and Ned through the school lab, Elfman’s Doc Ock Theme returns when he shows up to briefly trick Electro into thinking he’s on his side, before using a tentacle to remove the arc reactor from him, and the Cure Theme plays as he puts the inhibitor back on Electro.  The ending chase music covers more of the Lizard pursuing MJ and Ned, with the Main Theme coming is as Garfield saves them from him, with cue concluding as Garfield injects the Lizard's cure into him.

 

19 Shield of Pain (4:51)

 

Doctor Strange’s Theme accompanies his entrance through one of Ned’s portals.  Horner’s Main Theme plays as Garfield has his final conversation with Electro, and then Elfman’s Peter Parker / Responsibility Theme plays as Maguire has his final conversation with Doc Ock.  Doctor Strange’s Theme and the Main Theme are used as Peter introduces the other Peters to Doctor Strange.  The tone of the cue changes as the Green Goblin finally joins the battle to steal the spell box, which is rescued by the combined efforts of Doc Ock and Doc Strange.  A statement of the Cure Theme followed by an intense choral passage would have accompanied MJ’s fall and rescue by Garfield, but it was dialed out of the final mix.  Doctor Strange’s Theme is used as as he attempts to contain the breach, but the Villains Theme reveals he isn’t powerful enough to contain it.

 

20 Goblin His Inner Demons (3:54)

 

The beginning of the cue covers Peter and Norman’s fight on the downed Captain America shield, with the Villains Theme entering about a minute in; The climax around 1:45 is for Maguire preventing Peter from killing Norman.  The next big moment around 2:15 in is when Norman stabs Maguire.  The next climax at around 2:55 is when Peter stabs Norman with the cure that was tossed to him by Garfield.  The rendition of the Cure Theme that follows covers Norman returning to his normal self and having his final conversation with Maguire, with the Main Theme entering as Peter and Garfield compliment each other on their toss and catch.

 

21 Forget Me Knots (6:49)

 

The Main Theme enters as Peter starts telling Strange to cast a new spell that will cause everyone to forget Peter Parker, which will save the day.  Doctor Strange’s Theme is used as they say goodbye for the final time.  Peter’s goodbyes with the other Peters is scored by the Main Theme.  As he begins his goodbyes with Ned and MJ, the Responsibility Theme takes over for several minutes as they finish their goodbyes, Peter and MJ have their final kiss, and Strange’s spell sends all the visitors home.  The Main Theme backed by choir comes in towards the end of the spell casting as Peter and MJ lock eyes for the final time, Peter swings away, and Strange finishes casting the spell.  A solo piano rendition of the Main Theme enters as the sun rises over a shield-free Statue of Liberty, and  ends during the next JJJ broadcast that continues to antagonize Spider-man.

 

22 Peter Parker Picked A Perilously Precarious Profession (1:31)

 

Peter looks around his new apartment set to the Main Theme, and eventually hops out the window in a new home-made suit and swings through the wintery city set to a choir-backed rendition of the Main Theme that is very similar to the one when the 3 Spider-men leapt into battle together earlier.

 

23A [0:00-9:31] Arachnoverture (9:31)

 

The suite of themes (Main Theme A,B,C, Villains Theme, Responsibility Theme, Main Theme, Cure Theme, Main Theme A,B,C) is slightly edited down and used under the scrolling portion of the end credits.

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Pity the Horner and Elfman Spiderman themes are featured so briefly. Did Gia miss a trick by not featuring them prominently? I mean imagine full blast orchestral renditions of the 3 Spiderman themes (Hornder, Elfman, Gia) one to the other, one to the other, during the entire final section when the 3 Spiderman team up. 

 

I mean wouldn't that be grand.

[Jay 37,281]

Who knows, maybe something like that was recorded, and Watts asked for a rewrite.  For any film, you can't blame what isn't used solely on the composer, the creation of a film score is a collaborative process

[JNHFan2000 2,943]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Pity the Horner and Elfman Spiderman themes are featured so briefly. Did Gia miss a trick by not featuring them prominently? I mean imagine full blast orchestral renditions of the 3 Spiderman themes (Hornder, Elfman, Gia) one to the other, one to the other, during the entire final section when the 3 Spiderman team up. 

 

I mean wouldn't that be grand.

 

It would, but the filmmakers chose to use Giacchino's theme with a purpose.

It's the Tom Holland Spider-Man movie, so his theme should play. The choir version of the theme in the final battle is amazing in context.

[crocodile 7,983]

Could be a royalties nightmare as well. I don't think this would have worked any better. In fact the score would have lost focus entirely. Let's remember this is ultimately still a Tom Holland movie and it's what music should be focusing on - the core story. We don't need the music to tell us what we can already see. It's not its purpose. 

 

Karol

[saulocf 79]

This.. and their action scene together is so brief that I don’t think it would’ve made the desired impact. 

[Jay 37,281]

I definitely made some mistakes in my earlier list of all the cues in the film and what themes are used in each; Before I get around to revising that list, I think I have a definitive list of all the non-Giacchino themes that appear throughout the score

 

Spoiler

Elfman's main Spider-man theme

• Unreleased Cue #20 {Maguire's intro}

Elfman's Peter Parker / Responsibility theme

• Unreleased Cue #25 {Sandman is cured}
• OST track 19 Shield of Pain {Maguire talks with Doc Ock}

Elfman's Green Goblin theme

• Unreleased Cue #9 {he shows up on the bridge}
• Unreleased Cue #11 {he smashes his helmet in the alley}
• Unreleased Cue #18 {his monologue in Happy's apartment after Peter webs his hand}
• OST track 18 Arc Reactor {Electro grabs the arc reactor, GG is not present anywhere in this scene}

Elfman's Doc Ock theme

• OST track 7 Otto Trouble {bridge attack}
• OST track 11 Octo Gone {Peter installs the fixed chip in his back}
• OST track 18 Arc Reator {he rips the arc reactor from Electro and installs the inhibitor instead}

Horner's main theme

• Unreleased Cue #22 {Garfield talks about string theory and magic being real in this universe}
• OST track 19 Shield of Pain {Garfield talks with Electro}

Zimmer's Electro theme

• Unreleased Cue #10 {Electro's introduction in the woods}

 

 

So basically there are 11 cues throughout the score with a non-Giacchino theme, and he only put 4 of them on the OST album, leaving 7 unreleased.

 

Not counting any unused cues or alternates that may have been recorded as well, of course.

[Jay 37,281]

Most of the European Amazon links have this art added to the listing now

 

 

Gotta love that in the same image, they show a red/black jewel case and an all-clear jewel case in two different spots....

 

 

Still nothing on Amazon USA except the Limited Edition Vinyl.

[HunterTech 987]

Having given the score two listens now, this is likely one of the hardest for me to properly judge currently. In contrast to the previous two entries, I think the first half or so is pretty strong, with some of the most musically interesting bits that Gia has done for the trilogy. Especially fond of the No Good Deed track, with its use of choir and propulsive rhythms and percussion.

 

However, after that, it basically slows to a crawl, as it gets far more focused on the emotional core of the score. And let me just say that while I probably like the new themes more than some, they just ain't used particularly great in what we have. Specifically, the new responsibility theme is a bit too overly dramatic and tragic sounding for an idea that's more supposed to be simply bittersweet. It's what Elfman managed to do so well with his responsibility theme, and even Zimmer managed to capture the sentiment decently in his No Place Like Home/You're That Spidey Guy tracks (don't know if Horner had his own outside of using the main theme for it). With everything I've heard out of Giacchino so far, the man just can't seem to do emotional moments particularly greatly.

 

The villain theme had potential, but it's only used well in the regular suite, which is a problem when Vulture and Mysterio got far more mileage outside of the suites for their films.

 

As for the callbacks, I remain mixed, as I ultimately do like that Gia chose to mainly stick to his own guns for what's supposed to primarily be his iteration of the character. As much as I would love a more full blown reference haven, I imagine it'd be incredibly difficult to balance when you're aiming for mainly original material. I guess what bothers me is that when we do get to the cue where they become very transparent with the past quotes, something about the mixing really lets down otherwise fine arrangements (don't hate the mix btw, though I certainly hate the audible compression/clipping that's more than I would've expected for a score like this). I like the way Doc Ock's theme is used otherwise, and I'm sure I'd like the remaining quotes once I see the film proper.

 

I definitely believe Jay when he says a lot of the really good bits are missing, since it just lacks much of the fun Homecoming and FFH has. I genuinely wonder if Gia got too preoccupied with his other films to really make a proper album, since it's so half-baked as is. The previous two scores certainly benefitted from having more breathing room in their full forms, so I hope to see NWH get out in bootleg form eventually.

 

I absolutely wouldn't call this my least favorite Spidey score. Compared to Spiderverse and TASM2 (which probably are more interesting admittedly), it at least hangs together fairly well. But at the same time, it really serves to remind me how middle of the road Giacchino's take ultimately is. I like the main theme a lot, which certainly still has plenty of mileage to work with, but generally it's hard for me to get worked up much about the scores in general outside of fairly decent. Even the generally well liked FFH really left me a bit cold when I recently revisited it (though that could change with the barely leaked bootleg from today). All in all, better than most give it credit for, but it's very easily overshadowed at the end of the day.

[bored 306]

37 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

(don't know if Horner had his own outside of using the main theme for it).

 

0:00 - 0:54 is an expanded, complete version of the main Peter Parker melody Horner composed (though Rooftop Kiss seems like a variation on that same idea as well). He often uses it to sound more minimalist, often with piano such as in the end of the bridge scene when the construction worker embraces his son. It basically serves the same purpose as Elfman's Peter Parker theme, signifying responsibility as well as Peter's struggles. 

 

 

[Jay 37,281]

There's no doubt it's the weakest of Gia's three Spidey scores. 

 

Homecoming is brimming with so many ideas for Peter, and an Iron Man theme, and a love theme, and a great theme for The Vulture with its own supporting ideas. 

 

Far From Home keeps the main theme and a cameo of the Iron Man theme and adds a theme for MJ, a really catchy theme for Nick Fury / SHIELD, and then really cool themes for Mysterio and the elementals as well as their own ostinatos that he can mix and match, plus really catchy and memorable action music, including actual honest to god set piece writing!

 

But No Way Home, it's just lacking that kind of extra magic you need to continue being special. The three new themes are short, not very developed, and don't really make their presence known very well in the film or on the album. The Responsibility Theme kind of get showcased in both places sort of by default, but the theme itself is so basic it doesn't really have the impact it should in either place.

 

I guess the new themes have to compete with not only returning Elfman, Horner, and Zimmer themes but also Doctor Stranger's theme, which I guess is part of the problem. With so much going on, some sense of focus and drive is lost. 

 

I do think it's a good score and I do like it, it's just a letdown compared to the first two. 

 

And yea, the OST album doesn't do it any favors. I agree the first half is better paced than the second. I do think my feeling about that changed somewhat after seeing the film, and all the cues he included in the second half seem important to be there, but I still think more about some of the cool stuff that isn't on the album more than a lot of stuff that is. Some scores just work better and complete form and maybe this is just one of them. 

 

It's so cool that Paramount teamed up with Varese to make Deluxe Editions of his three Trek scores happen.  I wish Sony Music had some avenue to make expanded editions happen of these three happen as well, but who am I kidding.  Sony Music ain't gonna do that.

[Tallguy 3,361]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

There's no doubt it's the weakest of Gia's three Spidey scores

 

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. But it took me a lot longer to get into the score of Far From Home than many people. I think this score might have a better idea of the movie than the movie does.

 

Homecoming is so perfect. (Score and movie, but especially the movie.) While I can appreciate the sequels trying to cover new ground they never re-capture the balance that the first one had. I blame some of that on both sequels leaning into some of the absurd humor that Homecoming was only sprinkled with.

 

I admit to bias in that I LOVE Gia's Doctor Strange. And while I'm pissed that he's not scoring the second one at least we have this.

 

10 hours ago, Jay said:

Sony Music ain't gonna do that.

 

Bummer.

[Jay 37,281]

The silver lining of him not scoring Strange 2 is that he got to evolve and play with his theme so much in this score at least. 

[Drew 590]

On 11/12/2021 at 3:16 PM, Matt C said:

 

It probably wasn't.

 

If it was, they did a better job mixing it than they did on Desplat's Midnight Sky (where it was blatantly obvious each section was recorded separately).

 

I actually think Midnight Sky is one of the best lockdown mixes I have heard. Not as good as a real studio recording but not bad either.

[crocodile 7,983]

For me, this score feels very much like The Battle of the Five Armies situation. A lot of cool ideas and moments but the album somehow doesn't come together. New material overshadowed by pre-existing themes. Starts off strongly enough but the second half doesn't quite hit home (pun intended). And the treatment in the film is quite poor. But I don't necessarily dislike it in spite of all that. 

 

Karol

[Edmilson 7,384]

Listened to the album yesterday.

 

I really like Gia's previsous Spider-Man scores, specially Far from Home, which I thought it was one of the best of 2019 thanks to the wonderful Mysterio theme.

 

But this one is a massive disappointment.

 

The whole score sounds uninspired, forgettable and by-the-numbers. The new themes are so bland and dull, they barely make an impression. The quotes of the Elfman and Horner themes are insipid, though not as bad as how Williams music was treated in Rogue One's Trust Goes Both Ways. And the EPIC CHOIR moments are just embarrassing and makes me glad Marvel didn't chose Gia for the main Avengers movies.

 

Anyway, it's not a bad score per se, it's just bland.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

On 19/12/2021 at 1:49 AM, Arpy said:

Just saw the film, and bad news for me - the score was nigh on inaudible for most of the action, and even the quieter segments were dialed down, making this score another in the ongoing trend of relegating the score to far background support. I could just about pick out the older themes Gia references, but that was a challenge too when it was buried so far down in the mix. This is such a saddening choice these filmmakers choose to the point that it's like they don't even need a score to convey any meaning or emotion - or action for that matter.

They only have scores nowadays so they can sell soundtrack albums!

 

Because, you know. Those...uh, sell, by the truckload. A very tiny truck.

[Giftheck 916]

24 minutes ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

They only have scores nowadays so they can sell soundtrack albums!

 

Because, you know. Those...uh, sell, by the truckload. A very tiny truck.

A Tonka Toy truckload

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

I've listened to it a couple time and it's indeed disappointing compared to the two previous one. The true weakness of the score is that there is no real new themes and some uninspired use of the older themes. The only real new theme is the one from Forget me Knots which like Zimmer's Final Ascent is beautiful but not really inspirering.

Curiously, I found the music very nice while watching the movie so I do blame a bit the album for not being that interresting. I hope the recording sessions leaks at some point to squeeze a more comprehensive and interresting album from them.

 

[Damien F 1,742]

Just adding to the consensus that this is the weakest of the trilogy. He has three blockbuster scores being released next year (Batman, Jurassic World Dominion, Thor: Love and Thunder), I hope No Way Home isn't an indication of the quality of those upcoming scores. I would like at least one of them to entertain me as much as his first Spiderman score did.

[Jay 37,281]

Well he wrote and recorded Jurassic World 3 and The Batman before writing this score, for whatever that's worth 

[crocodile 7,983]

I just finished watching it the second time. It's interesting the film isn't as heavily scored as one might expect. Quite a few quiet scenes in the middle play without score.

 

Karol

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I got really tired of Giacchino's Spidey theme in this one. It really is such a paint-by-number hero theme, and its limitations are even more glaring heard next to Elfman's in the same film (as brief as that was).

 

For all his strengths I feel like Giacchino still hasn't mastered the art of variation. Almost every statement is exactly the same, every phrase as predictable as the last. Pretty apt for the whole MCU though I guess.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

32 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

I got really tired of Giacchino's Spidey theme in this one. It really is such a paint-by-number hero theme, and its limitations are even more glaring heard next to Elfman's in the same film (as brief as that was).

It was grating in the first movie.  Just not a very good theme.  

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I couldn't really remember it from the earlier films to be honest. For all the repetition it gets it hasn't stuck in my mind at all.

[Mephariel 451]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

I got really tired of Giacchino's Spidey theme in this one. It really is such a paint-by-number hero theme, and its limitations are even more glaring heard next to Elfman's in the same film (as brief as that was).

 

For all his strengths I feel like Giacchino still hasn't mastered the art of variation. Almost every statement is exactly the same, every phrase as predictable as the last. Pretty apt for the whole MCU though I guess.

 

The problem with his Spider-Man theme is that it could be any young superhero. It is melodic but not descriptive to the character. Elfman (Responsibility), Horner (growing gift) and Zimmer (web-slinging) all covers a distinct trait of Spider-Man.  

[bored 306]

2 hours ago, Mephariel said:

The problem with his Spider-Man theme is that it could be any young superhero. It is melodic but not descriptive to the character. Elfman (Responsibility), Horner (growing gift) and Zimmer (web-slinging) all covers a distinct trait of Spider-Man.  

 

I always thought Elfman's theme had already described every major trait of Spider-Man. His over 3 minute Spider-Man suite for the main titles practically tells the entire story right then and there. The Spider-Man theme starts off unassuming and soft, much like Peter was, then gathers strength with the drums and orchestra, almost simulating a Spider crawling across it's web (or Peter crawling a wall), goes through many dark variations in the first third reflecting Uncle Ben's death and the dark events of Spider-Man's life, then we get a full, sweeping, heroic statement of the theme at 1:43, with constant running strings simulating the feeling of web-swinging, and the full melody and counterpoint indicating that Spider-Man has come into his own.

 

Elfman even perfects the suite with Peter Parker's theme coming in right after Spider-Man's theme hits its peak, giving off the feeling that no matter how well Spider-Man does, Peter's life and responsibilities will always be impacted. The responsibility theme itself is perfect already, with the melody slowly collapsing, just like the weight of responsibility does, yet ending with a final rising note to illustrate how Peter overcomes his problems no matter what. We even get innocent sounding variations of Peter's theme at the end of the main titles of the first movie, characterizing at his naïve, immature side. I'm not saying Elfman was consciously thinking all of this when writing his theme, but it certainly characterizes the movie spectacularly anyway. 

 

This isn't a criticism of Horner, Zimmer, or Paesano either. I just don't think any composer can top the level of characterization that Elfman fit into his theme in the very first movie. It's like whenever Williams tried to use other themes, or compose new themes for Luke. He already nailed in the first time so it just feels like an absurd, wasted effort. Or when Zimmer composed new Batman themes. Even his more melodic efforts just pale in comparison to Elfman's or even Nick Arundel's. I do think Elfman should have made his own theme a bit darker and more varied in Justice League though cause that didn't work too well either. 

[Mephariel 451]

19 minutes ago, superultramegaa said:

 

I always thought Elfman's theme had already described every major trait of Spider-Man. His over 3 minute Spider-Man suite for the main titles practically tells the entire story right then and there. The Spider-Man theme starts off unassuming and soft, much like Peter was, then gathers strength with the drums and orchestra, almost simulating a Spider crawling across it's web (or Peter crawling a wall), goes through many dark variations in the first third reflecting Uncle Ben's death and the dark events of Spider-Man's life, then we get a full, sweeping, heroic statement of the theme at 1:43, with constant running strings simulating the feeling of web-swinging, and the full melody and counterpoint indicating that Spider-Man has come into his own.

 

Elfman even perfects the suite with Peter Parker's theme coming in right after Spider-Man's theme hits its peak, giving off the feeling that no matter how well Spider-Man does, Peter's life and responsibilities will always be impacted. The responsibility theme itself is perfect already, with the melody slowly collapsing, just like the weight of responsibility does, yet ending with a final rising note to illustrate how Peter overcomes his problems no matter what. We even get innocent sounding variations of Peter's theme at the end of the main titles of the first movie, characterizing at his naïve, immature side. I'm not saying Elfman was consciously thinking all of this when writing his theme, but it certainly characterizes the movie spectacularly anyway. 

 

This isn't a criticism of Horner, Zimmer, or Paesano either. I just don't think any composer can top the level of characterization that Elfman fit into his theme in the very first movie. It's like whenever Williams tried to use other themes, or compose new themes for Luke. He already nailed in the first time so it just feels like an absurd, wasted effort. Or when Zimmer composed new Batman themes. Even his more melodic efforts just pale in comparison to Elfman's or even Nick Arundel's. I do think Elfman should have made his own theme a bit darker and more varied in Justice League though cause that didn't work too well either. 

 

As a huge Zimmer fan, I agree with you. Elfman's theme is quite possibly from start to finish the best superhero theme ever written. It is that good.

[Tallguy 3,361]

I know this is all a matter of personal preference. But...

 

3 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

It was grating in the first movie.  Just not a very good theme.

 

You're insane.

 

11 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

Elfman's theme is quite possibly from start to finish the best superhero theme ever written. It is that good.

 

You're insane.

 

2 hours ago, Mephariel said:

The problem with his Spider-Man theme is that it could be any young superhero.

 

You're insane.

 

[bored 306]

7 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

You're insane.

 

 

Damn boys. We've been outwitted and foiled again. 

[Miz 139]

Can anyone line me up with the best and most listenable tracks from each of these three scores?

 

I listened to Homecoming once, and found it too bouncy and too popcorn to really hold my attention. I've only seen the film once. Same for Far From Home.

 

I used to be a massive Giacchino fan once, and many of his scores are still excellent in my eyes, but I've seen through the veil a little bit as I think he has reached his 'ceiling' in terms of complexity and creativity of writing... he keeps scoring things the same way over and again, and his best theme writing is behind him. Of course it's also about attachment to certain films, and his more recent do not grab me like they did a decade ago in my twenties.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

It just occurs to me that it was the second trilogy that Giacchiano has scored after Star Trek and like for the previous one, I find the first movie interresting, really nice and full of great promises, the second is far superior and more accomplished while the third score is far less inspired with no real innovation.

Perhaps Gia has some difficulty to make his score grows for a third entry, I guess we'll see with the third JW which is so far fowling the same pattern to me

[Jay 37,281]

Wow I don't think that's the universal opinion on his Trek scores. I love the third score, and he was clearly inspired enough to come up with the best theme of the trilogy for it!