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Michael Giacchino's SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME (2021)


Jay
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9 hours ago, superultramegaa said:

 

Damn boys. We've been outwitted and foiled again. 

 

I'm glad you noticed. It took me a long time to come up with that. ;)

 

This is a little more considered.

 

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Yeah, I saw your other post too. I just prefer the operatic and symbolic way that Elfman composed his themes rather than the "jack of all trades master of none" approach that I personally feel Giacchino often falls into with his themes. He's good at making them work for all purposes, but the consequence of it is I often don't remember the melodies all too well, or if I do they often just don't resonate with me and feel a bit too much like he's trying to emulate other composers. With some exceptions such as The Incredibles, Star Trek, and Up. 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Wow I don't think that's the universal opinion on his Trek scores. I love the third score, and he was clearly inspired enough to come up with the best theme of the trilogy for it! 

I know it's not universal, just my own opinion. I don't know how would have sound a third planet of the Apes by Gia but for me it's the same Dawn is good, full of promises and War is great

To which theme are you referring? Thank your Lucky Star Date?

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12 hours ago, Giftheck said:

I would have gone further. I think Beyond is one of his best works to date. I just love the Yorktown Theme, it gave me serious Goldsmith-TMP vibes.

 

That is crazy to me. The Yorktown Theme is perhaps his best theme to date, but the rest of the score is...bland and boring. Maybe the final cue is pretty good too. 

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On 22/12/2021 at 8:46 PM, Alex said:

I’m just disappointed that Gia didn’t use the bridge attack scene as an opportunity to unleash Doc Ock’s full theme. His handling of previous themes were tepid at best.

 

Maybe he wanted to, but the film's director, or some executive mandate from Sony or Disney, told him not to. We don't know how the creative process went down here. 

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36 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Maybe he wanted to, but the film's director, or some executive mandate from Sony or Disney, told him not to. We don't know how the creative. Process went down here. 

Seems like it would be a Kevin Fiege since he has a history of stupid musical decisions

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1 hour ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Seems like it would be a Kevin Fiege since he has a history of stupid musical decisions

 I thought it was the other fellow. The one who said nobody wanted to see a Black Widow movie. After Feige got full control you actually started to see composers return for sequels. 

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It weirds me out how much Sony doesn't enter the conversation when it comes to discussing the creative choices of this iteration of Spidey, since it mainly is their crew in charge (even with Feige still likely having final say on the whole project). Add TASM2 to the equation, and that might start to explain things a bit better.

Then again, Amy Pascal was the one who insisted on the rescores for SM3, so maybe it is just the times we're in.

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3 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Then again, Amy Pascal was the one who insisted on the rescores for SM3, so maybe it is just the times we're in.

 

Was it? I thought that was at least partly down to Raimi, especially after what happened with Spider-Man 2.

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13 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

Was it? I thought that was at least partly down to Raimi, especially after what happened with Spider-Man 2.


In an interview around the release of the film, Young specifically attributed her (plus the other execs at Sony) for making that particular choice. It came so late that Lurie and Debney were working at the same time he was doing cues for the climax. Chris mentioned Raimi and Bob Murawski had no issues with what he had composed for the film. And sure enough, his original work got to be restored in not just one, but two recent re-releases of the film (Editor's Cut, 4K version), suggesting there was enough affinity for the material to keep finalized film mixes around after so many years.

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Yeah, Raimi was completely happy with Young's new material, which is a bit odd considering he was so obsessed with Elfman's love theme that he put it in scenes it really didn't belong - like Aunt May's hero speech.

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Might be having your themes mixed up there, since I'm sure Alone from SM1 was always meant to signify Peter and May's relationship.

 

In the case of 3, I get some of it more had to do with them running out of time and thus needing to keep the temp in places, but it does bug me to hear it in spots like the transition to the scene with Peter and Harry in the mansion, and the whole break up sequence. Though it's at its most egregious when Debney records a whole new rendition of it for the last Peter and May apartment scene, but they use the bloody recording from SM1 again! It's honestly ridiculous, since they effectively kept wasting money making new recordings, only to continue using the original one instead.

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10 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Maybe he wanted to, but the film's director, or some executive mandate from Sony or Disney, told him not to. We don't know how the creative. Process went down here. 


 

I’m hoping he did want to. It just seems weird for the Green Goblin to be one of the main villains, and to barely use his theme at all.

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1 hour ago, HunterTech said:

Might be having your themes mixed up there, since I'm sure Alone from SM1 was always meant to signify Peter and May's relationship.

 

Yeah, that's the problem. In SM2 Raimi tracked "Getting Through" from Spider-Man 1 in the scene where Aunt May gives the speech on Spider-Man to Peter. He did use "Alone" as well earlier in that scene, but the speech itself had the love theme for some reason (I guess because some people love Spider-Man?) 

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Just realized there's a 4th theme / motif in the score:  "World's Worst Friendly Neighbor" and "Ghost Fighter In The Sky" share the same melodies

 

No idea what it could possibly represent, since the first cue covers the first scene in the movie, which is just Peter reacting to the reveal of his identity, hopping down, and taking off with MJ, while the second cue is just some shots of him swinging through the woods by the electricity lines and Ned opening Dr Strange's fridge.

 

I guess just a "moving things along" kind of motif?

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I don't really follow what you're saying.  He only appears in maybe 5-6 scenes in the movie, so that 4 cues exist with his theme is pretty good IMO.

 

It is a bummer none of the best ones are on the OST album, though

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Just realized there's a 4th theme / motif in the score:  "World's Worst Friendly Neighbor" and "Ghost Fighter In The Sky" share the same melodies

 

No idea what it could possibly represent, since the first cue covers the first scene in the movie, which is just Peter reacting to the reveal of his identity, hopping down, and taking off with MJ, while the second cue is just some shots of him swinging through the woods by the electricity lines and Ned opening Dr Strange's fridge.

 

I guess just a "moving things along" kind of motif?

It’s the scene motif!

 

It plays whenever there’s a scene in a movie. 

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The back cover of the physical CD has been added to the Canadian and European Amazon listings

 

71NbR0-cekL._AC_SL1200_.jpg

 

Still no sign of a physical CD for the USA

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5 hours ago, superultramegaa said:

Yeah, that's the problem. In SM2 Raimi tracked "Getting Through" from Spider-Man 1 in the scene where Aunt May gives the speech on Spider-Man to Peter. He did use "Alone" as well earlier in that scene, but the speech itself had the love theme for some reason (I guess because some people love Spider-Man?) 

 

Huh. I kind of dread rewatching the film again for this reason, having gotten myself more acquainted with the original score recently. :(

 

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3 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Huh. I kind of dread rewatching the film again for this reason, having gotten myself more acquainted with the original score recently. :(

 

Yeah, I ended up making my own edit of the film for that reason as well. Unfortunately it wasn't 4k or anything so the original music is still semi-audible for some scenes.

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I loved the film, feel mixed on the score...it didn’t feature old themes as integrally as it should have, it was as fun as Gia’s last two Spidey scores (except for the Strange cues), it just felt lacking.

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Yorktown for me is his best theme of his career. Of course emotionally he has achieved greater heights with his major themes for LOST. And wacky complexity in some of his Jupiter Ascending themes, but Giacchino's career seems to be too full of 'taking over the mantle' of other composers' great works. 

 

- Spiderman

- Batman

- Star Trek

- Star Wars

- Let the Right One In

- Apes Trilogy. Etc etc

 

And all those types of works are ultimately compared directly to iconic beloved works, and are judged as being incapable of living up to them or sitting beside them as equals. But I believe his Yorktown theme is one of his great themes that sits comfortably on the same level as the best Star Trek thematic material and as great as some of Goldsmith's many Star Trek themes. It shows what Giacchino is truly capable of at the top of his game.

 

 

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21 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

I believe his Yorktown theme is one of his great themes that sits comfortably on the same level as the best Star Trek thematic material and as great as some of Goldsmith's many Star Trek themes. It shows what Giacchino is truly capable of at the top of his game.


It’s a good theme, but it is nowhere near that good. Gia will never rival Goldsmith or Horner at their best. He’s like the JJ Abrams of film scores. He can be a lot of fun, but his work is generally lacking in depth.

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Eh? #speakforyourself

6 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:


It’s a good theme, but it is nowhere near that good. Gia will never rival Goldsmith or Horner at their best. He’s like the JJ Abrams of film scores. He can be a lot of fun, but his work is generally lacking in depth.

 

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On 25/12/2021 at 1:53 PM, leeallen01 said:

I believe his Yorktown theme is one of his great themes that sits comfortably on the same level as the best Star Trek thematic material and as great as some of Goldsmith's many Star Trek themes. It shows what Giacchino is truly capable of at the top of his game.

 

It's a good theme. But can I say its a bit oddly applied to a location. Maybe it might have been more resonant had it been applied to living things. I think the most resonant themes - in most cases - are resonant because they speak to a person or a people or a connection between persons/peoples.

 

The greatest theme ever written for a location - Tara' theme - is arguably as much a theme for Scarlett as it is a theme for Tara.

 

That outside the way, I don't think Gia can come close to matching the hey dey of Goldsmith's romanticism.

 

 

I mean check out the sweep, scope and harmony of a piece like this. It has beauty and grandeur to spare but also feels like it actually  represents an idea about the mystery and enigma of space - even though it is ostensibly a character theme. You have a competent theme from Gia, but nothing more than that I am afraid. 

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48 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

It's a good theme. But can I say its a bit oddly applied to a location

Yeah.  It's a good theme but it has no emotional resonance because its only purpose is to say "isn't this place awesome?!".  It's like if Princess Leia's theme was about how awesome the Tantive IV was.

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2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

It's a good theme. But can I say its a bit oddly applied to a location. Maybe it might have been more resonant had it been applied to living things. I think the most resonant themes - in most cases - are resonant because they speak to a person or a people or a connection between persons/peoples.

 

The greatest theme ever written for a location - Tara' theme - is arguably as much a theme for Scarlett as it is a theme for Tara.

 

That outside the way, I don't think Gia can come close to matching the hey dey of Goldsmith's romanticism.

 

Ilia's Theme
 

I mean check out the sweep, scope and harmony of a piece like this. It has beauty and grandeur to spare but also feels like it actually  represents an idea about the mystery and enigma of space - even though it is ostensibly a character theme. You have a competent theme from Gia, but nothing more than that I am afraid. 

 

See, it's funny. Part of the reason I hold Gia's Yorktown theme in such high regard is because I feel it transcends being a competent surface-level theme and actually supplements the film emotionally (though I wish it was actually used more within it). I think I'd be quicker to agree with your location point were the location itself not representative of an idea. The Yorktown starbase is shown off as this idyllic utopian self-contained hub world where many different species of organisms are able to exist together in total harmony, in addition to being a technical marvel on an engineering level, and I think the theme nicely personifies musically those ideas of unity and peaceful co-existence in a way that isn't too on the nose.

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That's by no means a fair or accurate comparison, it's a theme for an idealistic place that has meaning within the film and the wider context of the franchise. 

2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Yeah.  It's a good theme but it has no emotional resonance because its only purpose is to say "isn't this place awesome?!".  It's like if Princess Leia's theme was about how awesome the Tantive IV was.

 

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On 17/12/2021 at 7:56 PM, Mephariel said:

 

That is kind of amusing in that Horner's theme always bothers me because it is basically the same as the Karate Kid theme that he scored earlier. I actually think Horner's theme is the weakest part of the score. The intelligence of that score is what astounds me the most. I wish more superhero scores are that intelligent.


I have to ask: how are the main themes from Amazing Spider-Man and Karate Kid similar? I find nothing similar about them. 
 

Karate Kid and the “I See You” melody from Avatar, sure. 

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5 hours ago, NL197 said:


I have to ask: how are the main themes from Amazing Spider-Man and Karate Kid similar? I find nothing similar about them. 
 

Karate Kid and the “I See You” melody from Avatar, sure. 

 

"Saving New York" around the 6:32 mark.

 

"Journey to Spiritual Mountain" around the 2:57 mark. 

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That's not the main theme, that's one brief moment in the score (for Karate Kid) and the actual main theme has far more in common with "I See You" / "Becoming One of The People / Becoming One With Neytiri" from Avatar. 

Honestly today I was listening to a bit of GLORY, and with all of this Spider-Man talk, I heard the 'Call To Arms' motif and started singing along: 

'Spi-der-man' (Blow The Horn)
'Spi-der-man' (Play The Fife) - though the last word is a different note

and then it goes in a different direction. I'll not be able to un-hear that now!

 

 

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47 minutes ago, NL197 said:

That's not the main theme, that's one brief moment in the score (for Karate Kid) and the actual main theme has far more in common with "I See You" / "Becoming One of The People / Becoming One With Neytiri" from Avatar. 

Honestly today I was listening to a bit of GLORY, and with all of this Spider-Man talk, I heard the 'Call To Arms' motif and started singing along: 

'Spi-der-man' (Blow The Horn)
'Spi-der-man' (Play The Fife) - though the last word is a different note

and then it goes in a different direction. I'll not be able to un-hear that now!

 

 

 

Main theme or not, it bothers me that it shows up in a critical moment of Spider-Man's main action pieces. 

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Reports are that this film started very long and kept getting whittled down up until release day, so it's not surprising that cues for longer cuts of scenes got recorded, and then Watts shortened the scene

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There was, for sure, at least one scene that was longer in the 1st act and featured Tom Holland's brother. It was a longer version of the scene when he gets slime thrown on him (Tom Holland's brother is the one throwing the slime).

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