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Goldsmith at 20th - New series of releases by La-La Land!!!


Brundlefly
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On 11/27/2020 at 6:29 AM, Brundlefly said:

Is there an exhaustive list of Goldsmith scores that he's done for 20th Century Fox?

 

There is now...
 

On 11/27/2020 at 2:28 PM, Jay said:

So Yavar, out of all the work Goldsmith did for Fox (film and TV), what scores are the ones that have yet to be available in complete form anywhere?

 

This took a while (twice)... it's not like those helpful lists of John Williams by studio that you've done. Goldsmith is like 5x as prolific as Williams, so here is the complete list of things I'm aware of him having done for 20th Century Fox (it's possible there's another unsold pilot or something I don't know about; I only found out about one of these this past year).

Quoting from the official La-La Land Records Black Friday press release, emphasis mine:
"La-La Land Records and 20th Century Studios proudly present a new collection of classic Jerry Goldsmith scores for film and television composed for 20th Century Fox: GOLDSMITH AT 20th. Bringing back out-of-print favorites while also debuting previously unreleased music, this collection will feature new authoritative liner notes and unified packaging sure to please avid collectors but also serve as a perfect gateway for listeners experiencing this music for the first time.
Look for more “GOLDSMITH AT 20th” releases coming from La-La Land Records next year!"

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the bolded parts of what LLL wrote; maybe they missed it amid the jokes about The Blue Max being given yet another edition (hey guys it's out of print again; do you think it should be?) But for me, it was the most exciting part of LLL's Black Friday announcement: previously unreleased Jerry Goldsmith at 20th Century Fox music is coming next year! So, prompted by Jay, I thought I'd provide a list of everything Goldsmith did for the studio, so we fans can speculate and get excited here about what might be coming...

I'm also excited by the fact that this is a series for his scores for film *and* television; I have split TV off into its own list. Titles in blue have not yet been released complete on CD (but in some cases it is because cues are lost and that's impossible.)

Jerry Goldsmith at 20th Century Fox (film)

Release Date   Title

12/20/60           Flaming Star (Jerry wrote the excellent 2:14 finale cue "Pacer's Farewell" only, released with original cues by other composers only on the Twilight Time Blu-ray isolated score track...I'll speculate that the Elvis involvement might make a CD album release tricky to license.)
6/19/63             The Stripper (I always assumed the 2001 FSM premiere release was complete as their releases usually were, but surprisingly it doesn't explicitly claim to be in the liner notes booklet or on the product page; its pairing on the disc, Nick Quarry, is on the other hand stated to be the complete score. So perhaps there's room for expansion on this title, however slight, and probably a good chance of improved sound on a reissue.)
11/13/63           Take Her, She's Mine (A handful of cues are missing from the Intrada premiere album earlier this year, which will probably remain forever lost/unsalvageable. We're lucky to have gotten anything!)
7/22/64             Shock Treatment (I've heard there's a single cue missing from the Intrada 2013 expansion, around three minutes in length. I have yet to verify.)

9/30/64             Fate Is the Hunter (As far as I know the 2013 Intrada expansion is complete.)
10/28/64           Rio Conchos (The FSM and far better-sounding Kritzerland and La-La Land editions are all complete.)
6/23/65             Von Ryan's Express (Someone on the FSM board claimed there was a short cue still omitted from the 2013 Intrada expansion; it hasn't been added to the new LLL version so perhaps it was tracked in or perhaps it is lost. I have yet to verify, comparing against the film.)
8/25/65             Morituri (The new Intrada expansion from earlier this year is finally complete, restoring about a minute of music that was edited out on the FSM due to damage.)
10/7/65             The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint (Varese Sarabande twice released this complete; I also highly recommend the complete Intrada recording with the London Symphony Orchestra from the late 80s under Goldsmith's baton.)
1/16/66             Our Man Flint (The more recent Intrada Flint twofer is of the unique album recordings. The Varese twofer from the 90s is only about half of each Flint score film recording; the Twilight Time Blu-ray features a full isolated music-only score track, but it replicates film micro-edits and actually omits some music present on the album. We need a true complete-as-recorded edition on CD, but album rights lie with Varese in perpetuity.)
6/15/66             Stagecoach (Intrada released the unique album recording from original tapes; the FSM and later LLL edition are the film recording, both complete length-wise but the LLL adds a few previously missing overlays.)
6/21/66             The Blue Max (The LLL edition is complete, and IMO the best sounding release of this score's film recording.)
12/20/66           The Sand Pebbles (The still in-print Intrada 2CD edition released in 2011 is the most complete, but one cue "A Crushing Affair" had to be taken from a music-and-effects source.)
3/15/67             In Like Flint (The more recent Intrada Flint twofer is of the unique album recordings. The Varese twofer from the 90s is only about half of each Flint score film recording; the Twilight Time Blu-ray features a full isolated music-only score track, but it replicates film micro-edits and actually omits some music present on the album. We need a true complete-as-recorded edition on CD, but album rights lie with Varese in perpetuity.)
8/22/67             The Flim-Flam Man (The FSM claimed to be complete, but LLL just added a missing 51 second cue...so presumably it's complete now?)
4/3/68               Planet of the Apes (The new LLL edition in last year's PotA box set is complete with all overlays and sweeteners intact and far better sound than the Varese edition.)
5/28/68             The Detective (Varese, Intrada, and now LLL have all released the same 12 track program which omits the source music and most importantly, two score cues, "The Execution" and "The Killing". The Twilight Time Blu-ray isolated score track does include these, although the latter, more important, cue has some minor sound effects as it came from a music and effects source. Since the disc was only 53 minutes long I really wish these cues had been included.)
6/1/68               Bandolero! (The later Intrada and remastered LLL editions are both complete.)
3/26/69            100 Rifles (The FSM and remastered LLL editions are both complete.)
6/25/69            The Chairman (The Varese at Fox box premiered one previously unreleased cue in a suite, which made it to the digital release of the score. Apart from that the rest of the score appears lost, as even the Mattesino-produced Twilight Time Blu-ray isolated score track had to resort to a music-and-effects (and a lot of spoken Chinese, alas) track. We need a complete new recording of this masterpiece from the original written scores.)
8/6/69             Justine (As far as I know the Varese Deluxe Edition features the complete film recording and album recording, but a reissue would be swell for those who don't have it and I'd rebuy for better art or new Jeff Bond liner notes...)
4/2/70             Patton (The still in-print 2010 Intrada 2CD edition features both the complete film recording and album recording together.)
9/23/70          Tora! Tora! Tora! (The FSM and later remastered LLL editions are both complete.)
5/26/71           Escape from the Planet of the Apes (The Varese Club standalone CD and LLL PotA box set editions are both complete.)
6/11/71           The Mephisto Waltz (The Varese 90s CD paired with The Other is supposedly complete length-wise, but is a weird mix and leaves off certain overlays and sweeteners, so needs a new edition a la Planet of the Apes.)
5/26/72          The Other (Released as a single 22-minute track "bonus suite" with The Mephisto Waltz in the 90s, over half of this score is unreleased on CD. As with the Flint scores, the Twilight Time Blu-ray has an excellent isolated music track, but this features film edits and there is still music on the CD suite but not on the iso. A new complete-as-recorded edition on CD is a must.)
4/1/73            Ace Eli and Rodger of the Skies (I always assumed the 2001 FSM premiere release was complete as their releases usually were, but surprisingly it doesn't explicitly claim to be in the liner notes booklet or on the product page; its pairing on the disc, Room 222, is on the other hand stated to be everything Goldsmith recorded for that series. So perhaps there's room for expansion on this title, however slight, and probably a good chance of improved sound on a reissue, since the bonus section features damaged stereo tracks like the old FSM Towering Inferno did.)
9/5/74            S*P*Y*S (The Varese Goldsmith at Fox box is missing at least a third of the score. I always hoped that tapes for the John Scott score for the international release of the film might be found and included on a twofer with this, though if it ends up expanded in LLL's series that now seems unlikely.)
3/14/75          Ransom (aka The Terrorists) (The complete film recording appears lost; the miserable-sounding and terribly produced original LP appears to be the only surviving music source for this score, of which a decent chunk remains unreleased.)

10/29/75        Take a Hard Ride (The FSM and later remastered LLL editions are both complete.)
6/25/76          The Omen (Technically the Varese 40th Anniversary Edition is lacking a clean ending to one cue it crossfades with another, but otherwise it is complete. That clean ending can meanwhile be found on the isolated score track on certain editions of the film.)
10/21/77        Damnation Alley (The Intrada expansion is complete-as-composed, thanks to Leigh Phillips re-performing most of the synth elements in 2017. The original synth overlays have apparently been lost to time, so technically the film performance with those remains unreleased until and unless those are uncovered somehow.)

6/9/78            Damien: Omen II (The Varese Deluxe Edition features both the unique album recording and complete film recording, but the latter suffers from damage on certain cues and could probably be repaired and remastered to sound a lot better, given advances in technology over the past couple decades since its release.)
11/8/78          Magic (The Varese premiere CD was missing a single 23 second cue, which the later LLL edition added making the score truly complete.)
5/25/79          Alien (The 2007 Intrada 2 CD release features all the music recorded for the film.)
3/20/81          The Final Conflict (The Varese Deluxe Edition left off four cues; here's hoping this gets a 40th Anniversary Edition next year just like the original Omen score.)
10/7/88          Alien Nation (unused) (The Varese CD and Kritzerland reissue are both complete.)
2/4/91            Sleeping with the Enemy (The LLL expansion is complete and on the verge of selling out -- go grab one if you want one!)
2/5/93            The Vanishing (I used to think the Varese Club edition was complete but someone told me it beyond a doubt was not; I don't know details and haven't verified.)
4/22/94          Bad Girls (The LLL expansion is complete.)
8/2/96            Chain Reaction (The Varese Deluxe Edition is complete.)
9/26/97          The Edge (The LLL expansion is complete but could sure use better artwork/packaging!)

 


Jerry Goldsmith at 20th Century Fox Television

Air Date     Title

9/19/65      Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea "Jonah and the Whale" (The LLL expansion in their series box set earlier this year is complete, and even includes a previously unknown theme re-do Goldsmith came back to record a week later.)
9/18/65      The Loner "An Echo of Bugles" (The FSM and later remastered LLL editions feature everything Goldsmith recorded for this series, albeit annoyingly in one lump track per episode rather than individual titled cues.)
10/16/65    The Loner "One of the Wounded" (see above)
3/14/66      The Legend of Jesse James "Things Just Don't Happen" (This unreleased western TV show -- though UCLA has copies of the entire single season run I think -- is supposed to feature a single Goldsmith score for this episode.)
rec. 1968   Nick Quarry (unaired, unsold pilot) (The FSM premiere release of this with The Stripper is complete.)
9/17/69      Room 222 "Richie's Story" (pilot, aka "The Problem with Ritchie")
10/15/69    Room 222 "The Flu" (Both episode scores are complete on the FSM premiere CD.)
8/26/70      Prudence and the Chief (unsold pilot) (This retelling of Anna and the King set in the west has a fantastic Goldsmith western score, from which he re-used the main theme as a secondary theme in Rio Lobo later that same year.)
12/4/70      Bracken's World "A Score Without Strings" (Goldsmith's score, and score-within-a-score, can be heard in the full episode at this link:
https://vimeo.com/481240210)
9/17/72      Anna and the King "Pilot" (The Varese Goldsmith at Fox box includes all but a handful of very short cues. The biggest omission is the second half of the "March of the Royal Children" which is awkwardly edited out, even though it plays "in the clear" during the episode itself.)
10/15/72    Anna and the King "Anna's Romance" (The Fox box only includes two cues from this score.)
11/12/72    Anna and the King "The Chimes" (The Fox box also only includes two cues from this score.)
3/27/74      A Tree Grows in Brooklyn (The Varese Fox box includes about half of this gorgeous half hour score; it is one of my most wanted expansions from this new LLL series.)
rec. 1974   The Best of Times (unaired, unsold pilot) (I found this in the UCLA archives and what a premiere it could be, if found in the vaults! Sounds like it would be Goldsmith's An American Tail... "Topol plays a carpenter who heads an immigrant family living on the Lower East Side of New York in 1912."
https://cinema.library.ucla.edu/vwebv/holdingsInfo?searchId=137&recCount=50&recPointer=259&bibId=159724)
6/18/75      A Girl Named Sooner (Goldsmith's final known TV project for Fox; the only edition is the FSM paired with The Flim-Flam Man, and it is supposed to be complete although its companion score was said to be as well, but just got expanded, so one never knows.)

So Jerry did at least 28 scores for Fox (that we know of) in the 60s (21 film scores and 7 TV scores), 23 scores for Fox in the 70s (14 film scores and 9 TV scores), only 2 film scores in the 80s, and 5 in the 90s. I am excluding the Fox films The Culpepper Cattle Co. and The Last Hard Men, which re-used his music from other Fox productions. The latter did get unique recordings of those pieces conducted by Lionel Newman, which Intrada released complete in 2012 along with the Leonard Rosenman rejected score. As with Pursuit, Fox seems to have perhaps had some involvement with The Boys from Brazil, but Intrada's expanded release of that score doesn't mention Fox anywhere in the fine print so I don't think it's something they own tapes or music rights to.

Hope this was helpful as it took a lot of work. :) I'll post this on the FSM board too, soon.

Yavar

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Sets from the series I'd wish for:

- Fate Is the Hunter/Shock Treatment - 1CD set

- Our Man Flint/In Like Flint/S*P*Y*S - 2CD set

- The Mephisto Waltz/The Other - 1CD set

- The Chairman OST/Ransom OST - 1CD set

- The Omen/Damien: Omen II/The Final Conflict - 3CD set

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2 and 3 have been re-released on CD, just as the first, but maybe even the re-releases are getting hard to find these days, I don't know.

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6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, they're OOP, so we need new, even more complete releases. :)

 

Oh, be my guest. I have what I need -- the original release of the first, and the re-release of THE FINAL CONFLICT. Was never a big fan of 2, so I sold it years ago. Might re-acquire it digitally at some point.

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Thanks @Yavar Moradi, that's a really nice and comprehensive list!

Which Jerry scores do you most hope will be released on this line that will have previously unreleased music?

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I love the concept behind this series of releases. I don't know anything about these scores but it seems Blue Max is highly rated. 

 

A little off topic but I wonder if LLL would ever consider approaching JW about doing a similar collection for his early Universal work (The Rare Breed, Story of a Woman, Sugarland Express, The Screaming Woman), seeing as he doesn't sound too interested in releasing those scores.

 

Maybe bundling them together into an archival collection might be more appealing to him than standalone releases? Just a thought...

 

I'm still curious what idea Mike had re: Sugarland. 

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51 minutes ago, crumbs said:

A little off topic but I wonder if LLL would ever consider approaching JW about doing a similar collection for his early Universal work (The Rare Breed, Story of a Woman, Sugarland Express, The Screaming Woman), seeing as he doesn't sound too interested in releasing those scores.

 

One can always dream! THE SCREAMING WOMAN would only be one track.

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10 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Sets from the series I'd wish for:

- Fate Is the Hunter/Shock Treatment - 1CD set

- Our Man Flint/In Like Flint/S*P*Y*S - 2CD set

- The Mephisto Waltz/The Other - 1CD set

- The Chairman OST/Ransom OST - 1CD set

- The Omen/Damien: Omen II/The Final Conflict - 3CD set


Well Intrada already did the first one, Varese already did the third one and fifth one, and Prometheus already did the fourth one. ;) 

 

LLL seems to be avoiding repeating the same pairings Intrada did, so those two scores will probably end up with something else. Hopefully they find the missing Shock Treatment cue. If what you want is The Other paired with The Mephisto Waltz in *complete* form, that will likely require two discs. The two Flint scores are over an hour each in complete form, so I don't think that S*P*Y*S would fit on a 2 CD set with them, unless maybe it was awkwardly split over both discs.

For LLL to include the Omens, Flints, Mephisto Waltz, or The Other in this new series, they would have to spend the extra $$$ to sub-license from Varese and I'm just not confident they would do that for any of these just because they did for something as big as Planet of the Apes. But we will see...

 

13 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

You had to ask!😠😡😵

 

:) I'll post this on the FSM board too, "

 

" noooooooooooooooooooo!"

   - the entire FSM board

 

That's rich coming from someone who was banned from FSM for literally being so obnoxious that more people complained and reported their posts than did for anyone else in history. :) 

 

Yavar

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4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Is The Mephisto Waltz any good? And is there a more recent release than the 1997 one?

 

Dissonant stuff! But Goldsmith always manages to make it interesting. I have to prepare mentally for that, though. I have no idea about various releases. I have the Varese.

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23 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:


Well Intrada already did the first one, Varese already did the third one and fifth one, and Prometheus already did the fourth one. ;) 

 

LLL seems to be avoiding repeating the same pairings Intrada did, so those two scores will probably end up with something else. Hopefully they find the missing Shock Treatment cue. If what you want is The Other paired with The Mephisto Waltz in *complete* form, that will likely require two discs. The two Flint scores are over an hour each in complete form, so I don't think that S*P*Y*S would fit on a 2 CD set with them, unless maybe it was awkwardly split over both discs.

For LLL to include the Omens, Flints, Mephisto Waltz, or The Other in this new series, they would have to spend the extra $$$ to sub-license from Varese and I'm just not confident they would do that for any of these just because they did for something as big as Planet of the Apes. But we will see...

 

 

That's rich coming from someone who was banned from FSM for literally being so obnoxious that more people complained and reported their posts than did for anyone else in history. :) 

 

Yavar

And your point is....?😁

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1 minute ago, bruce marshall said:

And your point is....?😁

 

I think I stated it pretty clearly.
 

12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Is The Mephisto Waltz any good? And is there a more recent release than the 1997 one?


It's brilliant, but one of Goldsmith's most harrowing modernist scores. If you love Alien and Planet of the Apes, I think you'll be able to enjoy it. :) 

Yavar

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2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

It's brilliant, but one of Goldsmith's most harrowing modernist scores. If you love Alien and Planet of the Apes, I think you'll be able to enjoy it. :) 

 

Then I won't be able to enjoy it. :(

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31 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Yavar is jealous that I was on more IGNORE lists than him or Thor( nos. two and three respectively).

😊

 

For anyone who might be confused, Bruce is 100% pulling this out of his ass. Apart from him being on more ignore lists (and receiving more complaints/reported posts/ban requests than any other FSM member) that is; that fact is a matter of public record now thanks to him provoking Lukas enough that he wrote about it publicly.

There are of course a few people at FSM who don't like me, but they don't like a lot of people and are generally crabby complainers, to put it mildly. I wish I were on their ignore lists.

Bruce, you know very well that I posted what I did because of Brundlefly and Jay's inquiries about Goldsmith at Fox material. Speaking of which...

Yavar

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5 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Yavar, I'm having FUN with you!

How many smiley emojis to I have to include?.

I was one of your DEFENDERS at FSM.

Peace😍

 

When did I need or ask you to defend me? Now you're acting like I constantly needed defense or something. Your idea of fun and mine are pretty different, and emojis are often used in unfriendly fashion too. As usual, your humor did not come across very well.

Yavar

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6 hours ago, Jay said:

Thanks @Yavar Moradi, that's a really nice and comprehensive list!
Which Jerry scores do you most hope will be released on this line that will have previously unreleased music?

 

I think for me it's having everything Goldsmith wrote and recorded for A Tree Grows in Brooklyn (half is unreleased), S*P*Y*S (at least a third is unreleased), and also those completely unreleased TV items if they can be found in the vaults: The Best of Times, Prudence and the Chief, Bracken's World, The Legend of Jesse James... I also very much want everything Goldsmith wrote for Anna and the King, but I'd kinda prefer that get its own release outside of this Goldsmith at 20th series, because upon watching the show I was actually super impressed by the quality of dramatic music other composers supplied to the series as well. If LLL is able to do a fuller series soundtrack release along the lines of the Planet of the Apes TV series (or at least a single full disc if not two), that would make me really happy.

Yavar

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Just now, Yavar Moradi said:

 

I think for me it's having everything Goldsmith wrote and recorded for A Tree Grows in Brooklyn (half is unreleased), S*P*Y*S (at least a third is unreleased), and also those completely unreleased TV items if they can be found in the vaults: The Best of Times, Prudence and the Chief, Bracken's World, The Legend of Jesse James... I also very much want everything Goldsmith wrote for Anna and the King, but I'd kinda prefer that get its own release outside of this Goldsmith at 20th series, because upon watching the show I was actually super impressed by the quality of dramatic music other composers supplied to the series as well. If LLL is able to do a fuller series soundtrack release along the lines of the Planet of the Apes TV series (or at least a single full disc if not two), that would make me really happy.

Yavar

 

S*P*Y*S sounds fun

 

Is there anything preventing a complete release of The Other?

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5 minutes ago, Jay said:

S*P*Y*S sounds fun

 

It is TONS of fun and unfairly maligned, IMO. If one likes Goldsmith's zanier scores for Joe Dante, S*P*Y*S is like an even sillier, even more everything-and-the-kitchen sink sort of energetic wackiness. Tons of creativity and in-jokes; a clear Looney Tunes precursor. Check out the cue starting at 3:02 of this suite:


If you like that, this is the score for you. :) 

 

Yavar

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4 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I dunno...

People scream because my pix take up too much space but it's fine when Yavar posts an encyclopedic filmography😳?

 

 

How can you used the internet for as long as you have and not know that text takes up a miniscule amount of space compared to a picture?

I'm not talking about the literal amount of space on your display, I'm talking about server space.  A huge post of text is like 1% the size of an image file.

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2 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I dunno...

People scream because my pix take up too much space but it's fine when Yavar posts an encyclopedic filmography😳?

 

My posts have useful content (in this case, expressly requested useful content). It's not the size of the post that's the problem; it's how you use it. :) 


Yavar

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13 minutes ago, Jay said:

Is there anything preventing a complete release of The Other?

 

As with Escape from the Planet of the Apes, due to the single-track "bonus suite" Varese released in the 90s, they control it in perpetuity. Bruce Kimmel of Kritzerland has wanted to release this complete for years, but due to his helping that Varese album of The Mephisto Waltz/The Other happen back when he worked at Varese in the 90s, he basically prevented himself from ever being able to tackle it complete on his own label. I know Intrada would be interested too, if it weren't tied up. And Varese alas doesn't seem in a hurry to expand it, or the two Flint scores. I'm super grateful that Bryon was able to help bring about the Varese deal with LLL for them to do the new Planet of the Apes, but I wouldn't assume that the same will happen for more obscure scores.

Yavar

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Damn, that's a bummer.

 

Luckily, Bryon's been doing a good job getting more Club Titles out per year since he took over than Townson's later years (at least it feels that way)

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On 01/12/2020 at 2:14 PM, Yavar Moradi said:


It's brilliant, but one of Goldsmith's most harrowing modernist scores. If you love Alien and Planet of the Apes, I think you'll be able to enjoy it. :) 

Yavar

I love both of those, so sounds like I need to get 'The Mephisto Waltz'

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