The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Morricone) 3 CD set released by Quartet Records

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Listening to GBU.....

The GDM sounds a bit ' worse' on the mono tracks. They stick out because they are louder and you might have to adjust the volume.

The EMI integrates them better and reduces hiss.

Really, if you have these two you're set.

I'm grateful ENNIO programmed them. Otherwise we would have gotten another " collection of cues". Like this New version

18 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

They're able to do get rid of wobbling with today's technology, at least to some extent.

 

 

I know. Plus different instrument in one track.

Read my article , dammitt!

On 12/8/2020 at 12:24 PM, Brundlefly said:

Hopefully, Quartet will get to do the Dollars scores too.

Chris Malone just winked!

On 12/8/2020 at 7:40 AM, Jay said:

We have to accept that this hobby of ours gets more expensive every year

As long as they keep putting it on CD I will suffer in silence😁

[Fabulin 3,506]

.

[crocodile 7,979]

Mine is waiting for me at home.

 

Karol

[Marian Schedenig 8,160]

4 hours ago, crocodile said:

Mine is waiting for me at home.

 

Well, at least the CDs comply with the quarantine. 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

The presentation of the complete score is a DISASTER.

Forty three effing cues!

Look at how carefully EM combined short cues on.the GDM expansion compared to this " collection of cues".

The least they could have done is preserve his concept.

[Richard Penna 3,667]

Why does that matter so much to you, if all you're doing is putting the CD in a player? Combining short cues still usually leaves silence between them.

[Faleel 5,326]

Exactly.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Just listened to the extended version of " BALLAD of a Soldier".

The additional stanzas just repeat the verses. No new lyrics  per se.

Fantastic cue!

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

On 12/18/2020 at 5:41 PM, bruce marshall said:

The presentation of the complete score is a DISASTER.

Forty three effing cues!

Look at how carefully EM combined short cues on.the GDM expansion compared to this " collection of cues".

The least they could have done is preserve his concept.

 

They did this on Papillon too. Too many itty bitty tracks.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 hour ago, The Big Man said:

 

They did this on Papillon too. Too many itty bitty tracks.

Shsssh!

We're not aloud to complain about that.

We're only aloud to complain about scores where tracks are joined or crossfaded.

Or, scores that leave off itty bitty tracks and aren't " complete"

😎

[Jay 37,271]

Well, I think what really matters with an album is when you put it in and press Play, how much enjoyment you get out of it.

You can't really say a new presentation of a score that is different from a presentation you're familiar with is better or worse until you've heard.  It doesn't really make a lot of sense to look at a track list and assume you won't like it - you haven't heard it yet, how can you possibly know?

 

And since you already own an edition of the score you like, what is the point of repeatedly poo-pooing on a release that you don't intend to buy? All you accomplish is looking like a pessimistic asshole ruining things for the people who are looking forward to it and enjoying it.  You're not creating interesting discussion, you're just being a contrarian troll.

 

Just my two cents.

[Richard Penna 3,667]

I'm finding it easier to understand what Thor wants these days, than understand what Bruce wants.

 

I mean, most expansions boil down to being a collection of cues, with the occasional cue switched, and shorter cues joined, but the overall effect when you play the release from start to finish is the same.

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

He apparently wants all cues to be played together, simultaneously.

[Jay 37,271]

If a score has 4 short cues in a row and one producer puts each them them in their own track but another combines them all in to one track, the end result when you sit down and listen might be literally identical; if you're not looking at the display and simply taking in the music, you'd never even know if each cue was in its own track or not.

 

If a score sounds choppy or not is really a more of result of the composition process and how the composer wrote the cues, moreso than whether a later catalog album producer combined stuff or not.

 

I makes sense to me that the composer when crafting the initial OST album might want to do all kinds of editing, combining, cross-fading, and re-arranging to present the music the way they want.  When a catalog album producer gets the opportunity to give us the whole thing, I am happy when I get to hear all the cues separated out from each other.  Doing so never harms the listening experience for me, and if I did want to combine some things I can do that on my own.

[Thor 7,458]

Personally, I don't really care if the cues are separated or joined. I press play and listen from start to finish regardless, and I'm not really a "cue lover". So it's the same whether they are joined in super-long suites (like in Poledouris' LES MIS or Zimmer's K2) or separated into individual tracks -- as long the whole thing flows together organically. The re-recording of CITIZEN KANE has a myriad of short cues, but I don't really think about it when I listen. Whether that has to do with crossfading or not, I don't know.

[Jay 37,271]

Thank you Thor, that is refreshing to hear.

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

23 minutes ago, Thor said:

The re-recording of CITIZEN KANE

 

There's three of those.

 

[Thor 7,458]

The ol' McNeely one.

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

25 minutes ago, Thor said:

The ol' McNeely one.

 

There's some under rehearsed cues on that album that have always bugged me. I prefer the other two re-recordings, and the original.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 5:12 AM, bruce marshall said:

I'm grateful ENNIO programmed them.

 

I'm not convinced that Morricone was involved in the programming of the EMI release.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

46 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

There's some under rehearsed cues on that album that have always bugged me. I prefer the other two re-recordings, and the original.

 

 

I'm not convinced that Morricone was involved in the programming of the EMI release.

I'm sure . Malone has discussed the process. EM was adamant that it not exceed sixty minutes and exclude short cues.

The only LISTENANBLE KANE is Gerhardt!

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Thank you Thor, that is refreshing to hear.

The key word is " flow", Jay.

For example , Tadlow F451 keeps cues discrete but runs them without stopping. It's fluid. No breaks.

[Jay 37,271]

I completely agree with you that flow is very important for a film score album (or any album of music, really)

 

What I disagree with is the notion that you can look at the number of tracks a release has and assume that is must therefore not have a good flow.  You can't possibly know that until you listen to it.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=141917&forumID=1&archive=0

Over at.the other place, Onya Birri started a thread that mirrors my view.

So, I may be a minority but I'm not alone

 

16 minutes ago, Jay said:

I completely agree with you that flow is very important for a film score album (or any album of music, really)

 

What I disagree with is the notion that you can look at the number of tracks a release has and assume that is must therefore not have a good flow.  You can't possibly know that until you listen to it.

True.

But I still think very short cues, like stingers or transitions, lack MUSICAL value and need not be included.

[Jay 37,271]

I fundamentally disagree with that entire sentence

[Holko 9,491]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:53 PM, bruce marshall said:

But I still think very short cues, like stingers or transitions, lack MUSICAL value and need not be included.

And once again, you have your old expansions with no short cues, why does it matter to you if a newer proper complete expansion is properly complete?

[Richard Penna 3,667]

20 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

 

But I still think very short cues, like stingers or transitions, lack MUSICAL value and need not be included.

 

If you were referring to an original release, I'd empathise, as short cues/stingers often don't work for a listening-oriented album.

 

But expansions just aren't designed to be optimised for listening. You can have a Mattessino-style effort to arrange things a bit, but it has still been produced with the ideology of releasing the entire score. and people, expect it to contain everything.

 

Strikes me that expanded releases aren't really your thing from the start.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Well, for one thing, the " older" version doesn't sound as good.

I would PREFER  to listen to this newer one.

Anyway, a fellow Morriconian, who possesses.tech skills I lack, promised to make me a customized single disc version.

You all think it's easy to make a custom cd.

, but it isn't for me

1 minute ago, Richard Penna said:

 

If you were referring to an original release, I'd empathise, as short cues/stingers often don't work for a listening-oriented album.

 

But expansions just aren't designed to be optimised for listening. You can have a Mattessino-style effort to arrange things a bit, but it has still been produced with the ideology of releasing the entire score. and people, expect it to contain everything.

 

Strikes me that expanded releases aren't really your thing from the start.

C and C aren't my thing.

But, I was beyond joyful when GBU was originally expanded!

It inspired me to write a full analysis of the score and soundtrack for FSM!

[Jay 37,271]

3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

You all think it's easy to make a custom cd.

, but it isn't for me

 

You just need a computer (I've never heard of anyone doing one with a phone or tablet anyway) and then a couple hours of experience with audio editing software.  I learned when I was a teenager I am sure you could learn too

[bruce marshall 1,314]

 

 

I was also overjoyed when Lukas Kendall expanded the BOND scores. He did it right!😁

1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

You just need a computer (I've never heard of anyone doing one with a phone or tablet anyway) and then a couple hours of experience with audio editing software.  I learned when I was a teenager I am sure you could learn too

I'm too old to learn.

Plus, I don't own a pc😞

[Jay 37,271]

3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I was also overjoyed when Lukas Kendall expanded the BOND scores. He did it right!😁data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

😞data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

 

Actually in that case, the lawyers didn't let him do them the way he wanted, and he was forced to put all the unreleased music after the LP programs as bonus tracks

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

34 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Tadlow F451

 

Doesn't exist.

[Jay 37,271]

Presumably he meant the Tribute Film Classics  edition

[bruce marshall 1,314]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

Personally, I don't really care if the cues are separated or joined. I press play and listen from start to finish regardless, and I'm not really a "cue lover". So it's the same whether they are joined in super-long suites (like in Poledouris' LES MIS or Zimmer's K2) or separated into individual tracks -- as long the whole thing flows together organically. The re-recording of CITIZEN KANE has a myriad of short cues, but I don't really think about it when I listen. Whether that has to do with crossfading or not, I don't know.

Th or, you've written many times, that you don't want to have to program your own albums; you feel, rightly so, it's the label's responsibility.

I agree

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Actually in that case, the lawyers didn't let him do them the way he wanted, and he was forced to put all the unreleased music after the LP programs as bonus tracks

Not true.

He expanded many tracks that are part of the ost assembly.

[Jay 37,271]

Oh, that's great!  I hadn't checked out all the expansions, but I know that's the case with a lot of them, and also Rhino's Living Daylights expansion

[bruce marshall 1,314]

He specifically programmed the bonus material to play as if it was an alternate program- listenable on its own e.g. YOLT

[Richard Penna 3,667]

4 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Th or, you've written many times, that you don't want to have to program your own albums; you feel, rightly so, it's the label's responsibility.

I agree

 

But no two people will agree on exactly how to sequence an album - they have to do what they think will be the most popular arrangement.

 

And if, as you indicate above, C&C releases aren't your thing, then stop banging on about their 'flaws' whenever they come out! Just don't buy them!

[Jay 37,271]

Just now, bruce marshall said:

He specifically programmed the bonus material to play as if it was an alternate program- listenable on its own e.g. YOLT

 

Aye, the same thing Matessino tries to do whenever possible

[Holko 9,491]

2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

But no two people will agree on exactly how to sequence an album - they have to do what they think will be the most popular arrangement.

Exactly. It's a much better solution to just provide the score as is as a neutral ground for everyone to mess with as they please.

[Thor 7,458]

1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

Th or, you've written many times, that you don't want to have to program your own albums; you feel, rightly so, it's the label's responsibility.

I agree

 

Sure, but it makes no difference to me whether the tracks are combined or separated. A composer-producer can make great album experiences either way.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Aye, the same thing Matessino tries to do whenever possible

A rare but welcome development!😁.

But, that's just alternates, not score proper.

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

But no two people will agree on exactly how to sequence an album - they have to do what they think will be the most popular arrangement.

 

And if, as you indicate above, C&C releases aren't your thing, then stop banging on about their 'flaws' whenever they come out! Just don't buy them!

Tough.

I'll complain if I feel like it.

Put me on.ignore if YOU don't like it.

 

Besides , my comments are aimed at the labels, who we know read our comments.

Some may even be persuaded by them; MM seems to be emphasising listenability in recent releases😁

[bruce marshall 1,314]

On 12/20/2020 at 7:21 PM, bruce marshall said:

Just listened to the extended version of " BALLAD of a Soldier".

The additional stanzas just repeat the verses. No new lyrics  per se.

Fantastic cue!

 

Just wanted to clarify: the stereo ' album' version does contain additional lyrics, which is great news!

The extended mono version - the ' source' version- merely repeats verses

[Holko 9,491]

This set is a goldmine!

[Wojo 2,453]

Did anyone else in the US receive their copy with a jewel case in pieces? 

[Holko 9,491]

So, what is on here?

 

As it was said on FSM, the recordings were first mixed to 3-track, then mono for film use and stereo for album use. The mono sessions and original stereo album masters seem to be the earliest elements left. Comparing them back to back, it's pretty obvious in many cases the stereo mix is better with more clarity and presence, but that's not to say the mono mixes all sound bad, far from it! When comparing some tracks like Il Deserto with the previous expansions, the quality increase is huge even if only looking at the new mono mix. Some mono tracks like La Missione di San Antonio and Il triello seconda parte don't sound much better, and some mono mixes like Ecstasy of Gold are disappointing too, but generally this is an increase in quality.

 

I admire the goal to present both sources as is for archival and consistency purposes - but they also made space to include stuff like a mono downmix of the album mix of Ecstasy of Gold and the extended Il Triello (with both versions, album and film back to back) fully in mono, to easily swap out with the main program versions if needed and still keep the consistency! Interestingly the set also includes a stereo mix of the extended La storia di un soldato and the alternate Il Triello, I guess they were selected for album inclusion at one point but then dropped. Less puzzling is the stereo film version main title with cannons, since it's just overlays over the same take mixed similarly. Technically if you remove "redundancies" like some I call attention to later, and maybe some other odds and ends, and restructure the main program on the discs so less space is left on disc 1, this could probably all fit on 2 discs - but this is just pleasing as is.

 

Previously unreleased main program highlights include some nice tension material, some comedic cues like Tuco fa la colletta, more building of the Desert material in Il deserto secondo, lovely variations on the title theme like the slower Biondo... non morire!, more gentle woodwinds in Inseguilo! and Il bagnoschiuma di Tuco, more of the soldier/civil war material, Due assalti al giorno and Il campo di prigionia di Betterville being prime examples. It's no great revelation but a nice little fleshing out of the material. I certainly didn't feel the program had too many choppy badly assembled parts, except for the initial short cues which aren't the strongest opener, mostly main theme stingers and more nondescript material... but once the score "finds" the achingly poignant Civil War material, it really gets going and fully grabbed me. As I probably said before, by the time you get to the end of Morte di un soldato, you almost forget you have two more towering highlights coming up, and that's especially true here with that late section buffed up! In the end, I highly enjoyed listening to it.

 

And the bonuses? The title with cannons is a nice enough inclusion. The alternate Il tramonto is surprisingly some unsettling electronic material. I prefer the alternate Morte di Stevens over the main program version, since it places some bass pick figures over the extended tension material. Intermezzo Musicale is a wonderful surprise, reminded me of stuff what were used in Moonrise Kingdom! Organo offers too little with its length but is of interest, secondo is just kind of annoying unsettling droning.Uauah & effetti amusingly collects many recordings of the coyote call and playoff cleanly - voice for Tuco, ocarina for Angel Eyes, flute for Blondie, and some on janky electronics too, followed by takes of the playoff on voice&harmonica, then bass guitar. But the absolute gems of highlights here are the insanely fun Marcetta alternate, starting with only the simple beat and whistling, growing into full orchestra, humming harmonica and more decorated percussion, with multiple kickass interludes/variations, and the alternate Il Triello, a much less tense and dramatic approach with more stripped back orchestration, referencing the main theme more overtly!

 

The variations of Storia di un Soldato are the most confusing to figure out. 01.27 (Tuco e Wallace), 02.30 (Extended version), and 03.07 (OST version) are actually all the same take, just different mixes, the main program version obviously mono, the other two stereo. Actually, they are all the same edit of 02.28 (Extended stereo version), the 7:30 long take.  02.05 (Alternate) is a very gentle take, somewhat strangely also including a female voice - the song's supposed to be source music for a bunch of male prisoners of war forced to sing and play. 02.13 (Orchestral version) probably comes closest to Alternate, but is a separate different take/approach, not just an isolated orchestral version - it has humming instead of proper lyrics, and the soprano is present here too. 01.25 (the initial film version) seems to be yet another take.

 

For my edited version I created an edit of alternates as usual, used only the 7 minute take of storia, but also got creative with the stereo/mono duality - I recreated the main titles with the film prologue and overlay from the stereo album mix, then where I decided the album mix is better for something, I exported the album track in mono to stay consistent. However, once we get to Morte di un soldato, I switch to the stereo album mix in an opportune moment, and I also just used the stereo mix of L’estasi dell’oro, to really be punchy and open up. However, for Il Triello, I used the all-mono 7 minute extended assembly again - the quality decrease with the slightly echoey/misaligned doubling is bad enough on its own without calling even more attention to it with a stereo-mono stepdown within the track.

[Smeltington 1,436]

Nice writeup! Thank you for that... I'm planning on buying this but was hoping to hear more detailed reactions first.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

I created a single disc program.

Three discs excessive

[Holko 9,491]

I also enjoyed the booklet!

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Uauah & effetti amusingly collects many recordings of the coyote call and playoff cleanly - voice for Tuco, ocarina for Angel Eyes, flute for Blondie, and some on janky electronics too, followed by takes of the playoff on voice&harmonica, then bass guitar.

 

Ooh, ringtone treasure chest!

[Holko 9,491]

Yes!!! You can assemble your own one!

[bruce marshall 1,314]

29 minutes ago, Holko said:

Yes!!! You can assemble your own one!

Yeah, but I have to farm out the work of creating a cdr-

It's a complicated project

 

 

My draft assembly of the non- sound track dues.

Disc two*

 

31*

3,4

5,6

8,9,12

14

20,21

28

32

 

1,2,3*

8,9*

10,11*