Cerebral Cortex 2,644 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 You're in the final act of the movie. You feel as if the composer has played all their cards. You think you know what all the big new thematic material for the film is, all they have to say has been more or less exhausted. And then out of nowhere they drop something new and unexpected on you, a piece they'd had waiting in the wings but were intentionally holding back until the absolute opportune moment towards the end of the film to unload it on you. I'm referring to what I'm calling the third act musical surprise. Some examples would be Battle of the Heroes not playing until the final fight at the end of the ROTS, Jedi Steps not being heard until the last minute of TFA, Carpenter waiting until the last thirty minutes to introduce some groovy new chase music in the latest Halloween film, etc. The main criteria is it has to be a piece that doesn't feature until the last third of the film (or even the credits) and was not hinted at prior in the film, thus making it a total surprise when it becomes unveiled to the listener. With that in mind, I ask you: what is your favorite third act musical surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 5,273 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 You're basically asking for great Finale music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 7,386 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 The bike chase motif in E.T.! Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 2,644 Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Thor said: You're basically asking for great Finale music. In a way, yes, but by calling it Finale music I fear we get stuck in thinking of music that specifically closes out the film, whereas I primarily want to focus on music that appears at any point in the last act and nowhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 6,298 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Easy: The Throne Room, The Jedi Steps and of course Yub Nub. karelm and Bayesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2,528 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, Thor said: You're basically asking for great Finale music. Is he? @Cerebral Cortex correct me if I'm not putting this quite right, but you're looking for what I often call the "musical breath of fresh air" that composers will sometimes put into the last part of the composition, in the sense of NOT setting-up some major musical moment or theme. So, a little bit like how Wagner would assiduously set-up most of his leitmotives, and then end a music drama by introducing a completely new motif like Wotan's love for his children in Die Walkure? Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 1,376 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Yoda's theme in 'The Clash of the Lightsabers' as they all escape Cloud City. 1:38-1:58 The Dash Across No Man's Land in War Horse. It's the only action track in the film, but it fires on all cylinders. Blew me away when I saw it in theaters. 1:56 The Mecha Word - A.I. *edit, I guess the first one doesn't really count (although maybe it does because it's the first time we hear Yoda's Theme in an action sense?) karelm and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bounty95 336 Posted December 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 19, 2020 Setting The Trap Bayesian, Gruesome Son of a Bitch, Cerebral Cortex and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 2,644 Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Chen G. said: Is he? @Cerebral Cortex correct me if I'm not putting this quite right, but you're looking for what I often call the "musical breath of fresh air" that composers will sometimes put into the last part of the composition, in the sense of NOT setting-up some major musical moment or theme. So, a little bit like how Wagner would assiduously set-up most of his leitmotives, and then end a music drama by introducing a completely new motif like Wotan's love for his children in Die Walkure? Yes, exactly! Thank you. Worded it much better than I myself could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 5,273 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I get what you mean, but that particular moment also happens to coincide with a finale or "final confrontation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,247 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 THOR and I are probably the ones on this board who like this score. Your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,332 Posted December 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 20, 2020 What about radically different treatment of earlier music? I recall finding this calm version of the Jaws theme so incredibly memorable back in theaters back in the 70's. It came out of nowhere in the film but was the B section of the Jaws theme with a completely different treatment not heard in the film before. Smaug The Iron, Cerebral Cortex, Bellosh and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 1,376 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 The soft, slow orca theme in the end credits is so beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roll the Bones 2,943 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 The Prize is Barsoom Cerebral Cortex and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,476 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 A Busy Man Cerebral Cortex and Naïve Old Fart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 596 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 A random one but your description definitely fits here. After 30-40 mins of very pleasant and wistful Gaelic stylings, the score suddenly erupts into some of the best frenetic action music Howard has written - it's quite similarly structured to the finale in King Kong... only with a far more upbeat ending. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,764 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I like the bit where the music happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 633 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 The one that immediately springs to mind: So cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 26,797 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 The Arena march in Attack of the Clones The arrangement of Luke's theme for Lando's return in TROS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 8,703 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 The Fountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 1,848 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Perfect example for me is Back to America from Angela's Ashes. Romão and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 2,644 Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 Was watching Spirited Away. With less than 10 minutes until the film closed, I felt pretty confident I was more or less familiar with all the core musical ideas of the film, but then it decides to unload this one on you: Not Mr. Big and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 6,503 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 20/12/2020 at 12:30 AM, karelm said: What about radically different treatment of earlier music? I recall finding this calm version of the Jaws theme so incredibly memorable back in theaters back in the 70's. It came out of nowhere in the film but was the B section of the Jaws theme with a completely different treatment not heard in the film before. Not quite nowhere. It's heard in OUT TO SEA, and SHARK CAGE FUGUE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 573 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 In Red Sparrow. I'm a huge James Newton Howward and I remember watching the film in the cinema and being kinda disappointed with the score after the terrific prologue. The film itself was very downbeat so I expected a very slow & quiet ending. But then the 8-minute 'Didn't I Do Well?' began to play and I was shocked. It's one of the best cues of James Newton Howard's career. Amazing! Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 6,241 Posted April 3 Popular Post Share Posted April 3 I was truly amazed what Howard Shore managed to do with Smaug's material in the third act of The Desolation of Smaug. It didn't like all that much in the first score, to be honest. The themes felt established well enough before that but only in the third act of the second movie did they transform from a functional villain material to exceptional villain material. Imposing and terrifying, gorgeous and uncomfortable. All at the same time. Perfect. Karol JNHFan2000, Cerebral Cortex, SUH and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 2,528 Posted April 3 Popular Post Share Posted April 3 Closer to what the OP is going for is probably the introduction of the material associated with Dain or, perhaps more significantly, the figure associated with the body-count at the end of the story. Cerebral Cortex, blondheim and SUH 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 6,241 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Well, it was a surprise to me. The other two you mentioned weren't. I don't even know what they are. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2,528 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Well, its a surprise because, technically, its not material we've heard before; whereas the material associated with Smaug we've heard a lot: we haven't heard it treated like that, but its still material we've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 6,241 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Ah I get it. But no, nothing comes to mind then. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 2,007 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I had Hidalgo on in the car today, and was reminded of this absolute beauty after a mostly drama-based start and middle - a clear highlight: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 596 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 10 hours ago, Richard Penna said: I had Hidalgo on in the car today, and was reminded of this absolute beauty after a mostly drama-based start and middle - a clear highlight: What a great cue that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eitam 323 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 So far I can't think of a better example than Duel of the Fates. Big choral music entering Star Wars ! GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2,528 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Yeah, we don't really get to hear that theme, as such, before the duel begins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 1,315 Posted April 4 Popular Post Share Posted April 4 The Throne Room of Star Wars has that heroic theme that leads into the "B" theme of Luke's Theme. Never heard before that moment in the film. It's so good, so memorable, and literally reserved for the final moments of the film. No hints, no short prior quotes. A theme so good, it could've been a Main Title. Extraordinary. And since we're talking favorites, I have to argue for the Rope Bridge percussion from Temple of Doom. It breaks the a long stretch of frenetic action performed with traditional symphonic instruments, and actually increases the tension with a simple exotic percussion loop, rolling and rolling louder until the bridge is cut. There was some of this flavor of percussion throughout some of the Thuggee sequences, but not so pronounced and persistent. It makes that scene absolutely unforgettable. Holko, Chen G. and Cerebral Cortex 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 1,900 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 The most obvious and glorious example for me would be The Dark Side Beckons, from Return of the Jedi: Andy and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 728 Posted April 5 Popular Post Share Posted April 5 The Dain material is painfully under-utilized. I know that is part of what makes it so special, like the love theme in The Shadow, but gawd, I want more of it. Ironfoot is one of my most played tracks. That bagpipe makes me swoon. Actually score-gasms are so few and far between. Shore's given us plenty, Ironfoot is a good'un Oh, I also offer forth the Dain material Chen G., JNHFan2000 and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2,528 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I guess that sort of material has an unfair advantage in that it comes on the heels of the musical buildup of not just one score but at least 2.5. I like the material associated with Thorin's death: part of the magic of the leitmotif technique is that the motives are constantly being recontextualized by sheer virtue of being heard next to other motives. So that we hear the theme associated with Thorin and then the theme associated with "Death and Parting" and then the material affiliated with Tauriel and Kili, not only connects al three but also shows us that both the latter and the former had been carrying the seeds of their own demise all along. Just because we don't come out of the movie singing it doesn't mean that emotionally it didn't do its thing! blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 728 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 That bagpipe counterpoint though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2,528 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Yes, Ironfoot is a great piece, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 728 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 You bring up some great points about themes sitting next to each other and how that proximity affects their relationship to their own individual concepts and then each other. It is one of the reasons I tout that The Last Jedi is such a masterful score. While I think there is much more new material than people give the score credit for, it is the way in which all of the thematic material is used, old and new, that makes that entry so brilliant. The Spark is a great example. Leia's themes passing one to the other like that really draws out the differences in the two kinds of love. Han Solo and the Princess sounding particularly romantic and poignant there. The two themes sat next to each other in Leia Breaks the News as well but it didn't have this effect. Which brings us back to your point. It isn't just the new material or how it evolves or how it lays over each other, but sometimes it is simply what comes next and how we get there. What stories we tell along the way Edmilson and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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