Thor 7,504 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Inspired by other discussions we've been having recently: What are some of the film composer's best and worst final scores before their death? Obviously, you can go out on a 'dud' of a movie that nonetheless has a good, or okay, score. Goldsmith's LOONEY TUNES would be such an example -- a fairly middle-of-the-road score for a forgotten movie. Vice versa, it's hard to beat Bernard Herrmann's TAXI DRIVER -- wherein both film and score are considered classics. Michael Kamen's GAYA and James Horner's THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN were both disappointments to me, both films and scores. But things like Ron Goodwin's VALHALLA, Korngold's ESCAPE ME NEVER and Rozsa's DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID are pretty good. I have like a million of other examples of both good and bad final scores, but I want to hear from you first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 You stole my idea!!! About James Horner, I'm more interested in the two other score he scored before: The 33 and Southpaw. And about Jerry Goldsmith, I have Timeline to listen someday. Now, are the last works of a composer the best ones? Not necessarily, but it shows a certain mastery, sometimes it may show pain or light, or even poetry. For J.S. Bach, his last works are the finished B Minor Mass (WOW!) and The Art of Fugue (Oh, maybe not for every ears), for W.A. Mozart, it's the Clarinet concerto (K. 622) and the Requiem (AH!) and for L.V. Beethoven it's his lasts String Quartets (heeeee... again not for every ears!). But the last works are the last works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 I agree with you. As I said in the other threads, I'd rather consider OPEN RANGE Kamen's last than BACK TO GAYA. I'd rather consider WOLF TOTEM Horner's last than THE MAG 7. And so on. But as you say -- the last scores are the last scores, whichever way you put it. Sorry about stealing your idea....I had actually thought about making a podcast episode about this for quite some time. This thread could be great research, if people chime in. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 The different periods of maturity of an artist is a subject I absolutely love. Hey what about last Zimmer's scores (he wrote alone)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,363 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Interesting topic. Semantically, “last work” suggests the composer being aware of the finality of his/her career and possibly considering that work as a swan song. (At least that’s how it seems to me.) But many composers’ final works are only final because of the composers’ untimely deaths. I think of James Horner and how obviously he was going to compose plenty more after Southpaw if he hadn’t died. In such cases, it seems unfair to talk about last scores as anything but random events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Franz Waxman wrote some world class scores in his final decade (1957-1967), and Lost Command is no exception. I watched the main title, a battle scene, and was immediately hooked - without knowing FW did it. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,688 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 It would seem we disagree on Horner's Magnificent Seven, @Thor - I saw the movie a few years ago and really liked it, and bought the score immediately after. I suspect what we're hearing is mostly Simon Franglen using Horner's ideas, but it still sounds very much Horner. The main theme I'd say isn't his best, but I find the action fun, and some very evocative underscore. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Can I mention THE BUDDHA OF SUBURBIA? It's a pretty good TV score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Richard Penna said: It would seem we disagree on Horner's Magnificent Seven, @Thor - I saw the movie a few years ago and really liked it, and bought the score immediately after. I suspect what we're hearing is mostly Simon Franglen using Horner's ideas, but it still sounds very much Horner. The main theme I'd say isn't his best, but I find the action fun, and some very evocative underscore. It's got a good danger motif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Bayesian said: Interesting topic. Semantically, “last work” suggests the composer being aware of the finality of his/her career and possibly considering that work as a swan song. (At least that’s how it seems to me.) But many composers’ final works are only final because of the composers’ untimely deaths. I think of James Horner and how obviously he was going to compose plenty more after Southpaw if he hadn’t died. In such cases, it seems unfair to talk about last scores as anything but random events. Sometimes they are aware, sometimes not. Apart from the rare cases where the death is caused by an accident, the majority of composers write till their last breath or so. I wanted to talk about John Barry too. I think two of is last scores were rejected, so in 1999 he kind of used some of the unused material from the rejected score, to release his excellent solo album "The Beyondness of things", which is like a musical testament as a film music composer. Of course, his last albums were written 2 years after the previous one, the score for "Enigma (2001)" and the solo album "Eternal Echoes" (inspired by the poetry of John O'Donohue, a friend of Barry). Then he co-wrote a musical in 2004, "Brighton Rock". Then, as another setback, his score to "The Incredibles (2004)" was rejected (has the rejected score been released?). Not a happy end of career... I'm not an expert of John Barry, but I consider these works as his "last works". Did I missed something? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 ENIGMA was Barry's last score, but I'll always regard The Horse Whisperer...ahem, sorry, I meant...THE BEYONDNESS OF THINGS as his last truly great work. I think that it was Barry himself who turned-down THE INCREDIBLES. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: I think that it was Barry himself who turned-down THE INCREDIBLES. Yes, I think you are right, they wanted to reuse Barry's theme to On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but he didn't think it was a good idea, so he backed off... the score was then given to a cheaper composer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,447 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: ENIGMA was Barry's last score, but I'll always regard The Horse Whisperer...ahem, sorry, I meant...THE BEYONDNESS OF THINGS as his last truly great work. I think that it was Barry himself who turned-down THE INCREDIBLES. Has Barry's The Horse Whisperer ever leaked? I love Thomas Newman's score, but I want to know what Barry had written before being fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 No idea. Is it possible to synch the film to Barry's TBOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Has Barry's The Horse Whisperer ever leaked? I love Thomas Newman's score, but I want to know what Barry had written before being fired. Wasn't Meadow of Delight and Sadness rumored to be one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,368 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Bespin said: Yes, I think you are right, they wanted to reuse Barry's theme to On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but he didn't think it was a good idea, so he backed off... the score was then given to a cheaper composer! You hear the Bond temp tracks all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/10/2021 at 9:30 AM, Bespin said: Then, as another setback, his score to "The Incredibles (2004)" was rejected (has the rejected score been released?). Nothing was ever recorded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,284 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jay said: Nothing was ever recorded I don’t think Barry even wrote anything. He declined at the initial stages from what I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I always heard the same too Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Pixar told Barry he had written a western tune when he turned in his demo theme. Barry said FY, and that was that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/10/2021 at 10:21 AM, Naïve Old Fart said: ENIGMA was Barry's last score, but I'll always regard The Horse Whisperer...ahem, sorry, I meant...THE BEYONDNESS OF THINGS as his last truly great work. I think that it was Barry himself who turned-down THE INCREDIBLES. On 1/10/2021 at 10:50 AM, Bespin said: Yes, I think you are right, they wanted to reuse Barry's theme to On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but he didn't think it was a good idea, so he backed off... the score was then given to a cheaper composer! https://web.archive.org/web/20140415053240/http://www.aintitcool.com/node/18753 I wonder if he wrote anything before he was let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Would have loved to hear Kamen's take on the material, and I *love* what Giacchino did. It's pastiche but hey, it's damn good pastiche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 49 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: https://web.archive.org/web/20140415053240/http://www.aintitcool.com/node/18753 Interesting, never saw this before Moriarty: In terms of the score, you cut that original teaser to the Propellerheads version of the “On Her Majesty’s Secret Service” theme... BRAD: Actually, that was a live performance than we recorded, because we messed with it a little bit. We got the rights to that piece of music and kind of reorchestrated it. Moriarty: Very early on, there was some talk about John Barry working on the score. BRAD: Yeah. We worked on it for a little while, and I’m a huge fan of John Barry. But I kind of wanted him to go back to a style that he used in the past, and use that as kind of a starting place. I think he kind of felt like he’d already done that. So we’re still in touch with him, and he’s going to see the movie in New York. He was all right with us trying to find someone who could be, uh... perky and fresh about going backwards because John certainly had already done a lot of that style. Moriarty: I think he’s got to see this as a giant love letter to his work. Michael’s score is so rich. BRAD: Thanks! We tried to capture a whole raft of ‘60’s style, jazz style... and also, one of the good things about Michael Giacchino is he was able to capture that style but not be a prisoner to it. He created great original themes for these guys, and we’re incredibly happy with the music. He had trouble getting people to give him a break in movies, and I think people won’t leave him alone after this. Moriarty: As much as I’ve enjoyed his work on ALIAS and LOST, this is a huge leap forward, and I think it’s the lush size of the thing. He really gets to play this time. BRAD: Yeah, yeah, he had a blast, and he’s fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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