mxsch 115 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Which is your favourite/best one? Suggestions are welcomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Oh man... I'd have to go with ROTJ/1983. Both the main title and end title recordings are so powerful. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I truly like all the films' recordings. (I haven't heard the other two options.) I voted for '77 because of its unmistakable energy and enthusiasm. It really sounds like the beginning of a great saga. My close runner-up is '99. I know some fans find the prequel recording to be too sterile, but I disagree. It's got a great, refined, stately-but-not-boring vibe. This one sounds the most timeless to me. '15 is probably last place for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I hope we can hear the 2017 recording one day (please please please on the eventual TLJ expansion, Mike ). The LA brass section was sensational in the TLJ sessions! I wanna hear that opening blast (and not through Rian Johnson's iPhone)... Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1983, of the choices available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 No idea. Aren't they all the same, more or less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 @mxsch, at least one recording is missing from the poll - the one from Pops in Space (1980, I think). And then there's the Vienna recording... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 57 minutes ago, Thor said: No idea. Aren't they all the same, more or less? Rubbish posting in which you act daft now, Thor? Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 None of the above mentioned versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I mentioned it right here. 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: And then there's the Vienna recording... Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Either the 1996, Hollywood Sound version or the version from The Phantom Menace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Thor said: No idea. Aren't they all the same, more or less? This isn't a poll about compositional differences, it's a poll about performance differences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 And recording/mixing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I prefer Holst's original main title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Jay said: This isn't a poll about compositional differences, it's a poll about performance differences I know, but if we're talking the films here, they sound more or less the same to my ears (except the end bit when it scrolls to some location). Jurassic Shark and Remco 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Yea, you're not paying close enough attention. They all sound different my man. But you've told us you have tinnitus and other hearing issues so the differences may not be as apparent to you I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I like the totalitarian one from TESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Quote Yea, you're not paying close enough attention. They all sound different my man. But you've told us you have tinnitus and other hearing issues so the differences may not be as apparent to you I suppose. I just don't obsess over STAR WARS like you guys do, with whatever incy wincy tiny performance difference there might be between the various film openings. However, if one opens the parameters to various album recordings, by various artists, it's easier to glean substantial differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 14, 2021 Well, you're speaking uninformed here man. Some of the differences are certainly not "incy wincy tiny". Educate yourself before spreading falsehoods! Remco, Fabulin and Ricard 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 As with a lot of things, the original is best. Somehow the opening note on the 1977 version is a musical explosion, which has never been replicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I'm so glad they came up with that opening after the first 2-3 takes with the extra note first Naïve Old Fart and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Jay said: Well, you're speaking uninformed here man. Some of the differences are certainly not "incy wincy tiny". Educate yourself before spreading falsehoods! I've been listening to these albums countless times since the early 90s, so I'm plenty educated, thank you very much. I just don't hear much of a difference between them. Stop being condescending! Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 They're all the same song Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I wasn't being condescending at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Thor said: I've been listening to these albums countless times since the early 90s, so I'm plenty educated, thank you very much. I just don't hear much of a difference between them. Stop being condescending! For starters, listen to the mix and the instruments accompanying the main melody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Jay said: I wasn't being condescending at all! You most certainly were. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: For starters, listen to the mix and the instruments accompanying the main melody. Exactly, obviously all the main titles are the same basic composition, but he's subtlety changed the orchestration through the years And the LA orchestra used for 7-9 certainly sound different than the LSO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Jurassic Shark said: For starters, listen to the mix and the instruments not playing the main melody. Again, the differences are very subtle. Not really worth close scrunity to me, and not enough to make much of a "case" out of (unless you're someone who obsesses over STAR WARS and these kinds of incy wincy details). Now, if one were pitting - say - the film recordings vs. Kojian vs. Skywalker symphony (which I noticed now was actually in the poll!, to my surprise) vs. the London '18 performance vs. Vienna '19 etc. etc. etc., it would be a whole other matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Thor said: Again, the differences are very subtle. Not really worth close scrunity to me, and not enough to make much of a "case" out of (unless you're someone who obsesses over STAR WARS and these kinds of incy wincy details). It has nothing to do with obsession, and nothing to do with Star Wars fandom as a whole You're simply choosing not to listen for the differences. And that's fine, no one says you have to care about them. But don't claim they aren't there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jay said: But don't claim they aren't there! They are there, sure. But IMO too neligible to make any kind of profound delineation between them. Hence why I said 'more or less the same' in the very first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jay said: Exactly, obviously all the main titles are the same basic composition, but he's subtlety changed the orchestration through the years 8 minutes ago, Thor said: Again, the differences are very subtle. Not really worth close scrunity to me, and not enough to make much of a "case" out of (unless you're someone who obsesses over STAR WARS and these kinds of incy wincy details). And in some of the recordings, some instruments are almost drowning in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Thor listen to just the first 1 second without listening further in each Just that 1 second is wildly different each time TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Sshhhh, no one tell Thor that we have all the individual takes of the main title from ANH, thanks to the SE release, and that there are significant differences between each of those too! Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I voted for ESB. All of them are great but I have a soft spot for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 The 1977 ANH recording also uses more timpani for the rhythm, while almost every recording since more snare drum. Listen for example right around 0:14-0:16 and 0:40-0:42 in each. From 1:03-1:06 there's a cool prominent timpani part in '77 SW that is way more subdued in '80 TESB and '83 ROTJ (you almost can't hear it at all in ROTJ) The '80 TESB one overall is more militaristic, it kinda sounds like the old main title filtered through Superman-style orchestrations. The '83 ROTJ one also adds more trumpets than any version ever had before Cerebral Cortex and Ricard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I think I'd have to go for Return of the Jedi, but it has many close competitors (Empire for a start). Wonder if we need another poll of how many versions of the main titles each of us... by my reckoning, I have about 20 different recordings (although I'm not 100% if the same recording was used for all of the sequels like for the prequels), so depending on how you count, somewhere between 20 and 25. And yes, many are quite different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I wish Johnny gave it more oomph when returning to it in 1990 The spruced up Imperial March on that album is cool, he should have done more of that kind of thing to the other selections! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said: I think I'd have to go for Return of the Jedi, but it has many close competitors (Empire for a start). Wonder if we need another poll of how many versions of the main titles each of us... by my reckoning, I have about 20 different recordings (although I'm not 100% if the same recording was used for all of the sequels like for the prequels), so depending on how you count, somewhere between 20 and 25. And yes, many are quite different... They did a new recording of the main title for each of the sequels, but the TLJ recording was ultimately replaced with the TFA recording. All we have of the TLJ version is a poor video of the recording session Rian Johnson posted. TROS is still different, though. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Datameister said: Sshhhh, no one tell Thor that we have all the individual takes of the main title from ANH, thanks to the SE release, and that there are significant differences between each of those too! I actually think I have some of those on the fourth disc of the Arista box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Thor said: I actually think I have some of those on the fourth disc of the Arista box. Nerd! Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Disc 4 of the Arista box set featured a track called "Main Title (Alternate)" that simply took various parts of various takes that were different from the final film version and made a new take assembly to highlight the different ideas recorded among the various takes. The 1997 2CD set features the entirely of each of all 5 Main Title recordings, presented as a "hidden" bonus track at the end of disc 1 after the Binary Sunset alternate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 542 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1996 LSO for me. Maurice Murphy’s still sounding glorious in the prime trumpet seat, the Abbey Road recording quality is top-notch and, particularly personally, it was recorded mere days after I’d seen JW conduct the exact same band in the same piece at the Barbican. A happy day. Does anyone have a list of the actual orchestration changes since 1977? Having just bought the Hal Leonard score, it’d be nice to be able to pencil in the changes that have been made. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 You guys are talking about this album when you talk about a 1996 recording right? That reminds me I need to listen to it again. I think I've only heard it once! QuartalHarmony and Bespin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I've had it for decades, but always found it strangely uninteresting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimwilson 254 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Which recording is on the "Greatest Hits" compilation? I think I'd always assumed it was TPM, but the very opening is different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,041 Posted January 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 14, 2021 6 hours ago, QuartalHarmony said: 1996 LSO for me. Maurice Murphy’s still sounding glorious in the prime trumpet seat, the Abbey Road recording quality is top-notch and, particularly personally, it was recorded mere days after I’d seen JW conduct the exact same band in the same piece at the Barbican. A happy day. Does anyone have a list of the actual orchestration changes since 1977? Having just bought the Hal Leonard score, it’d be nice to be able to pencil in the changes that have been made. Mark One of the biggest changes has to do with the violins. In the earliest takes from '77 (and in the suite published that year), when the A theme returns toward the end at bar 38 (0:48), the 1st violins play the upper octave; the 2nd violins play divisi, half doubling the 1st violins and half playing an octave lower. (This is the same way it's voiced throughout this reprise of the A theme.) Then, starting in the third take of this cue (i.e., take 18), a change was made: all the violins were collapsed down to the lower octave, i.e. one octave above the horns, for the first phrase. Things then return to normal for the second phrase, at the pickup to bar 46 (0:57). The remaining takes were kept that way too, and that's what you hear in the film and album. By the time we get to ESB, this change had been scrapped, leaving some of violins on the upper octave as originally written, and that's how all the versions for later films were recorded too. Regardless, all the ANH takes have a much more legato sound for the violins throughout the reprise of the A theme, contrasting with the marcato horns; after ANH, the violins generally play those notes in a more detached way that matches the horns. The other big thing that distinguishes the ANH performance is the fact that the snare drum part is largely inaudible, so most of the percussion is really driven by the timpani. All later recordings feature the snare drum more prominently, especially after the OT, with the timpani merely providing very noticeable support. Hmmm...oh, also, the trumpets have a short countermelody from bars 24-27 (about 0:33-0:36 in the ESB recording) that's not heard in ANH. And if you listen to the earliest ANH takes, there's obviously the unused pickup at the beginning, and the woodwinds play staccato during the B theme instead of legato (0:27-0:36). They're a lot more noticeable too - not sure if that was a change to the performance or the mixing. I'm probably missing some stuff, but that should be a good start. Eat your heart out, Thor! EDIT: Timestamps added per @Jay's request. Nick Parker, QuartalHarmony, crumbs and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Datameister said: One of the biggest changes has to do with the violins. In the earliest takes from '77 (and in the suite published that year), when the A theme returns toward the end at bar 38, the 1st violins play the upper octave; the 2nd violins play divisi, half doubling the 1st violins and half playing an octave lower. (This is the same way it's voiced throughout this reprise of the A theme.) Then, starting in the third take of this cue (i.e., take 18), a change was made: all the violins were collapsed down to the lower octave, i.e. one octave above the horns, for the first phrase. Things then return to normal for the second phrase, at the pickup to bar 46. The remaining takes were kept that way too, and that's what you hear in the film and album. By the time we get to ESB, this change had been scrapped, leaving some of violins on the upper octave as originally written, and that's how all the versions for later films were recorded too. Regardless, all the ANH takes have a much more legato sound for the violins throughout the reprise of the A theme, contrasting with the marcato horns; after ANH, the violins generally play those notes in a more detached way that matches the horns. Got any timestamps so us plebes can know what bit you're taking about? 2 hours ago, Datameister said: The other big thing that distinguishes the ANH performance is the fact that the snare drum part is largely inaudible, so most of the percussion is really driven by the timpani. All later recordings feature the snare drum more prominently, especially after the OT, with the timpani merely providing very noticeable support. I kind of like the less militaristic 77 recording. And I otherwise normally love militaristic film music! 2 hours ago, Datameister said: Hmmm...oh, also, the trumpets have an countermelody from bars 24-27 that's not heard in ANH. Timestamp? 2 hours ago, Datameister said: the woodwinds play staccato during the B theme instead of legato. What does this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted January 15, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Datameister said: I'm probably missing some stuff, but that should be a good start. Well, if you care to go further down the rabbit hole, I can help fill in some more of the differences, especially with timpani and percussion, which I played professionally for several years: In the 1977 version, the very first chord has a single B-flat in the timpani, while the subsequent versions all have three grace notes leading in: The timpani is more prominent throughout, but the snare is still there if you listen carefully, it’s just way down in the mix vs. later versions. The two cymbal crashes (“piatti”) at bar 18 (just before the B section) are not present in the original 1977 version: Oddly, the TFA main title recording, unique among all version (as far as I know) also has these same crashes added at the corresponding place at bar 10. 8 hours ago, Jay said: From 1:03-1:06 there's a cool prominent timpani part in '77 SW that is way more subdued in '80 TESB and '83 ROTJ (you almost can't hear it at all in ROTJ) That’s a particularly famous moment among timpanists, and a great example of what’s possible with really strong pedal technique: Simplified in the published version and all subsequent recordings to: There’s actually quite a few other tweaks in the timpani part, but that’s the most noticeable. In bar 12, all low instruments are tied over the barline in the 1977 version. I suspect this may be a mistake introduced in the published version that’s persisted, because oddly some instruments are still tied and some are not: There’s also some quite subtle differences that came about simply due to the reduction in instrumentation: 3 trumpets instead of 4, 4 horns instead of 6, etc. Fabulin, Ludwig, Jay and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,041 Posted January 15, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: Got any timestamps so us plebes can know what bit you're taking about? I kind of like the less militaristic 77 recording. And I otherwise normally love militaristic film music! Timestamp? What does this mean? I'll get you some timestamps a little later, for sure. Staccato means the notes are played detached from each other, creating a short, precise sort of sound; legato means the notes are "slurred" together, connecting smoothly with each other, with no gaps between. Staccato is usually notated with a small dot directly above or below the notehead; legato is usually notated with a gently curved line sweeping over or under a group of notes. They can also just be written as words in the score. So to summarize, in the first take, the flutes/clarinets/oboes play their notes during the B theme in a detached, separate manner, but Williams then asked them to connect the notes together more smoothly, and that decision has stuck ever since. EDIT: @BrotherSound I never thought about that - I've never played the main title on timpani, but yeah, you've gotta have a great ear and a great foot to nail that wonderful quasi-solo! EDIT AGAIN, BECAUSE I KEEP THINKING OF STUFF: @Jay I totally agree about the '77 recording. I loooooove snare drum (as a listener and as a performer), and I think the snare part is very effective for the main title...yet I've got a real soft spot for timpani-heavy original! I'm sure it's partly just nostalgia, and it probably wouldn't work as well with a modern recording. But with that Tomlinson/Anvil/70s LSO sound, it really gets my heart pumping. As overplayed as the main title is, it's still gold! BrotherSound, crumbs and Jay 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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