Jay 37,359 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Datameister said: Hmmm...oh, also, the trumpets have a short countermelody from bars 24-27 (about 0:33-0:36 in the ESB recording) that's not heard in ANH. Woah. Never picked up on that before! Gotta love finding new things in music you've heard countless times.... Datameister and Falstaft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: Woah. Never picked up on that before! Gotta love finding new things in music you've heard countless times.... Keyword "heard", not "listened" I admit my ears have largely glossed this tune over since I was a teen. This thread has been so crucial in making me actually listen to this again! I also find it inspiring that over half a century, just about, Williams never truly became complacent with even his most famous composition, always thinking of new ways to try and improve the piece. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 The thread title makes no sense. Did you mean to write" What is your favorite SW Main title"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 On 1/14/2021 at 5:49 AM, mxsch said: Which is your favourite/best one? Suggestions are welcomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 11 hours ago, bigjimwilson said: Which recording is on the "Greatest Hits" compilation? I think I'd always assumed it was TPM, but the very opening is different That's '96 recording from "The Hollywood Sound" bigjimwilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 What about these? On 1/14/2021 at 10:07 AM, Jurassic Shark said: @mxsch, at least one recording is missing from the poll - the one from Pops in Space (1980, I think). And then there's the Vienna recording... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: What about these? It seems I can't edit the post anymore Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 14 hours ago, Jay said: You guys are talking about this album when you talk about a 1996 recording right? That reminds me I need to listen to it again. I think I've only heard it once! It contains the best recording of SW Theme conducted by Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 46 minutes ago, mxsch said: It seems I can't edit the post anymore Sure you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 You can do it! Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored 309 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 On 1/13/2021 at 11:55 PM, Manakin Skywalker said: Oh man... I'd have to go with ROTJ/1983. Both the main title and end title recordings are so powerful. Definitely agree with that. For whatever reason, ROTJ has the only main and end titles that I always distinctly remember the sound of. All of the material from ANH just sounds so refined and precise by ROTJ. Really think that's when Williams got the Star Wars sound perfected. Edit: I just re-listened to the original movie's main title, it seems the trumpet countermelody is there, but weaker sounding in the French Horns instead for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,042 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 48 minutes ago, superultramegaa said: Definitely agree with that. For whatever reason, ROTJ has the only main and end titles that I always distinctly remember the sound of. All of the material from ANH just sounds so refined and precise by ROTJ. Really think that's when Williams got the Star Wars sound perfected. Edit: I just re-listened to the original movie's main title, it seems the trumpet countermelody is there, but weaker sounding in the French Horns instead for whatever reason. The horns do play in that moment, but it's not quite the same as what the trumpets get in later films. For me, the biggest thing that distinguishes the ROTJ performance is the trumpets shortly before the return to the A theme - it sounds like there's a tie missing, effectively adding an extra note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 More like "Countless Polls of SW Main Title" on JWFan amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Disco Stu said: More like "Countless Polls of SW Main Title" on JWFan amirite? I'm old. I had to google that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt S. 493 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 15 hours ago, BrotherSound said: Well, if you care to go further down the rabbit hole, I can help fill in some more of the differences, especially with timpani and percussion, which I played professionally for several years: In the 1977 version, the very first chord has a single B-flat in the timpani, while the subsequent versions all have three grace notes leading in: That's probably my favorite part of the original recording; the way it just smacks you in the face right on the downbeat, without the grace notes. Another little detail about the original that I prefer, is that the first three measures are played at a constant tempo, without the slowdown leading into Luke's Theme that became commonplace later on. That gives the recording a great deal more drive, in my opinion. I've never been too fond of the 1997 LSO recording; the whole percussion section is overbearing to my ears (I don't know if it's the way it's mixed, or if the players were just playing very loudly). I feel that's the case throughout the entire "Hollywood Sound" album. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,863 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 ‘83 and ‘19 are my favorites. Hearing the opening for TROS in theaters was a surprise, especially when TFA and TLJ weren’t as strong and blasting as the previous entries(even through they’re all unique in their own ways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 Can anyone provide me a source with Rian Johnson's post of TLJ main titles, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28204-jw-conducting-the-last-jedi-video/ Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 hours ago, superultramegaa said: Edit: I just re-listened to the original movie's main title, it seems the trumpet countermelody is there, but weaker sounding in the French Horns instead for whatever reason. Yep, there's an example of an change that was probably necessary solely due to the reduction in instrumentation from 6 to 4 horns. In the LTP version, which calls for 6 horn parts (like the 1977 original), the countermelody is restored to the horns and the trumpets are once again tacet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Thor said: I'm old. I had to google that. Amirite is some sort of mineral, isn't it? I really like the unused TLJ rendition. It's a shame they decided to reuse the TFA recording for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Matt S. said: That's probably my favorite part of the original recording; the way it just smacks you in the face right on the downbeat, without the grace notes. Wild to think there's only a single take with that opening! The first three have the lead-in chord, and the last take cuts out most of the orchestra. By the way, that deleted pick-up chord (a spiky Gb/F) actually ended up in the original 1977 band arrangement! Nick Parker, Fabulin, Matt S. and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Matt S. and BrotherSound 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt S. 493 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Fabulin said: That was unexpectedly funny I'm sure each of them plays their instrument better than I would, but together... It still sounds better than the godawful Vienna Philharmonic, with all of their endless flubs and timing issues.... But seriously, that is an interesting arrangement, I remember playing that in my college wind ensemble! It's relatively faithful to the original, but there are some weird transitions and modulations here and there, so certain sections are played in different keys than we're used to. I also have an orchestral performance of that same arrangement; it was released by the Orchestra of the Americas, conducted by Bill Broughton (Bruce's brother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Do we know if the main titles were originally conceived in B major but dropped to B flat major to connect with the fox fanfare? I’m wondering since Kings Row is in B major and it is kind of a more typical key to write in for Williams, I think. Mentioning Kings Row btw because Williams tends to stick with the key of the temp track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Do we know that was the temp track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I never thought it would come to this, but I voted for 2015-17. That performance really grew on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 . Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I’m shocked about the Ròsza. So it’s a myth that Kings Row was used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Remco said: Ròsza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Hmmm, but reading the discussion it’s said that Williams wrote the fanfare last! I’m imagining that he wrote Luke’s theme as part of the score, maybe having Korngold in the back of his mind unconciously, then when he needed to write the fanfare it turned into a big b flat major statement to evoke the Rósza (sorry @Holko) temp track. And so it started to sound more like the Kings Row intro. Edit: Ah, I see you corrected some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Remco said: Rósza (sorry @Holko) Close but no cigar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 8 hours ago, Remco said: Do we know if the main titles were originally conceived in B major but dropped to B flat major to connect with the fox fanfare? It could have changed during the process of composing, but it was definitely in B-flat major by the time the full score and parts were done. I remember JW has also mentioned the intentional choice of B-flat for the main title as a key that the brass instruments sound especially brilliant in. Anyone happen to remember which interview had that? Another Star Wars main title tidbit: there was actually an official “single edit” released, and it is truly dreadful: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 The fact that more people voted for the TFA one than the TROS one is disturbing. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Fabulin said: What was the story with Alfred Newman's fanfare again? Wasn't it Williams who suggested breaking it out of the museum? It wouldn't surprise me if he talked with Lionel about it, and it ended up opening the film because it itself was also (back in the days) inspired by Korngold, and Williams thought it would have enhanced the opening of the film. Maybe Lionel Newman suggested to Williams that there was a similar Fox property written by his brother that could be used in the first place? The liner notes from the 1997 Special Edition of A New Hope's soundtrack says of Newman's fanfare, Quote it was George Lucas' inspired creative stroke to reintroduce it when Fox released Star Wars in 1977. And I think that makes the most sense. Lucas had already drawn together influences from old serials, samurai films, westerns, and sci-fi, and he knew he wanted the music to be like the old Hollywood scores of the 30s and 40s, so it fits neatly with that whole creative vision. Fabulin and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ludwig said: The liner notes from the 1997 Special Edition of A New Hope's soundtrack says of Newman's fanfare, And I think that makes the most sense. Lucas had already drawn together influences from old serials, samurai films, westerns, and sci-fi, and he knew he wanted the music to be like the old Hollywood scores of the 30s and 40s, so it fits neatly with that whole creative vision. It makes neither less nor more sense to me, but if that's our only source, that's our source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Fabulin said: It makes neither less nor more sense to me, but if that's our only source, that's our source... Why so doubtful? They are Matessino's liner notes after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I voted for the LSO That Hollywood Sound. I keep thinking the perfect career ender would be for Williams to record a two (or three) CD album with the LSO featuring the SW suites. It would be cool to hear all the pieces freshly recorded, but we would then also get the sequel (and Han Solo) pieces with the LSO. Vaccinate Williams and the LSO and get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,042 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 33 minutes ago, Tom said: I voted for the LSO That Hollywood Sound. I keep thinking the perfect career ender would be for Williams to record a two (or three) CD album with the LSO featuring the SW suites. It would be cool to hear all the pieces freshly recorded, but we would then also get the sequel (and Han Solo) pieces with the LSO. Vaccinate Williams and the LSO and get it done. Nah, I don't think he's likely to travel overseas again, certainly not for that. Bill Ross, on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Datameister said: Nah, I don't think he's likely to travel overseas again, certainly not for that. Bill Ross, on the other hand... Then fly the LSO to LA. Just get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,042 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Tom said: Than fly the LSO to LA. Just get it done. The trick is finding a plane large enough to transport all of Abbey Road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 On 1/15/2021 at 3:50 AM, BrotherSound said: That’s a particularly famous moment among timpanists, and a great example of what’s possible with really strong pedal technique: Thanks for that. This has always been one of my favourite moments in the piece, and I've never been quite sure if it was revised for the concert score & sequels or if the timpani was just played/mixed less prominently and thus covered by the double basses in all the other recordings. BrotherSound and Loert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 5 hours ago, BrotherSound said: Another Star Wars main title tidbit: there was actually an official “single edit” released, and it is truly dreadful: BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Innovative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 1:07 AM, Ludwig said: Why so doubtful? They are Matessino's liner notes after all... It's just that Lucas has claimed many things over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted January 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2021 18 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: Thanks for that. This has always been one of my favourite moments in the piece, and I've never been quite sure if it was revised for the concert score & sequels or if the timpani was just played/mixed less prominently and thus covered by the double basses in all the other recordings. Yep, except for the 1977 original, every other main title recording for the Star Wars films uses the published concert versions. ESB, ROTJ, and TPM used the original 1977 suite published by Fox Fanfare Music, Inc., while the sequel trilogy used the Hal Leonard suite published in the 1990s. I'm not aware of any actual differences between those two versions apart from just the actual typesetting. The live-to-projection version sort-of restores the scalar timpani passage, though slightly modified: That version restores some of the instrumentation that was reduced for the published suite, but retains other changes. For example, the timpani still have their opening grace notes and the two added cymbal crashes just before the B-theme are still present. Marian Schedenig, ragoz350, Loert and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1999-2005 is the gold standard for me, but 1980's opening blast is incredible! (I definitely prefer the single timpani hit vs. the roll). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now