KK 3,307 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Quintus said: I'll be more specific: when JW passes, great film scoring in the neo-romantic style will be dead. Maybe. But there are other interesting things being done in other styles of music to look out for. And no, I'm not talking about Gia at all. I will agree that mainstream films are no longer the place for great music, at least for me. That whole side of the industry has more or less become giant machines for producing sound support for noisy blockbusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Fabulin said: "Great"? Please name 2 examples from each of the past 5 years, Williams and Powell excluded. 2016 - Star Trek Beyond, Alice Through the Looking Glass 2017 - Spider-man: Homecoming, Valerian and the City of A Thousand Planets (outside of film - Xenoblade 2, Hollow Knight, Breath of the Wild) 2018 - Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom, Ocean's 8, Ant-Man and The Wasp (outside of film - God of War, Celeste) 2019 - Spider-man: Far From Home, Jojo Rabbit (outside of film - The Mandalorian Season 1, Mr Robot Season 4) 2020 - Soul, Wonder Woman 1984 (outside of film - The Mandalorian Season 2, Medal of Honor Above and Beyond, Final Fantasy VII Remake) TSMefford and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 This is where differing definitions always come into it. MikeH and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Even guys who used to be great like Elfman now do crap like Justice League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Nothing Jay just listed made me wanna buy the albums. Jurassic Shark, Ricard and Erik Woods 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Excellent list @Jay Personally, I own the albums of almost all the film scores there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 What a sad message from kramer. Really the industry innards seem to be full of shit. and its very sad to hear he is struggling to make a living. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2020 would have been a much more interesting year on the film front if covid hadn't pushed a lot of films that have good composers attached into 2021. At least the tv and video game front was really strong in 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bayesian 1,362 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Let's see if I understand the current state of film scoring: Film producers don't give a shit about the craft of film scoring. Kraemer hasn't had a mainstream gig in 9 years. Elfman has talked about his opportunities drying up. Zimmer and his clone army have a stranglehold oligopoly, at least when it comes to high profile projects. Composer assistants do all the work, yet aren't paid enough to survive. Meanwhile, Zimmer gets asked to do a Masterclass. The studios lock away all their film music in vaults for decades and allow it to deteriorate. The fact we get to enjoy any expanded releases comes down to the endless, heroic work of specialty label producers who appear to have to fight tooth and nail for every album they manage to produce. Meanwhile, Disney still won't move forward in giving the world a properly expanded Star Wars. I know I'm cherrypicking here, but even so... this is a very unfortunate state of affairs. crumbs, Fabulin, Deacon Blues and 7 others 7 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: Even guys who used to be great like Elfman now do crap like Justice League. That's another major issue. To think that a now wholly average Alan Silvestri is behind the unremarkable music to what is the biggest grossing blockbuster of all time, and people apparently rave about it... that's where scoring is now, that's the zenith. Gruesome Son of a Bitch, crumbs and Jurassic Shark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bayesian said: Kraemer hasn't had a mainstream gig in 9 years. Rogue Nation came out 6 years ago, not 9 Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 26 minutes ago, Quintus said: This is where differing definitions always come into it. Yeah, when did "great" start to mean "OK"? 2 minutes ago, Jay said: Rogue Nation came out 6 years ago, not 9 Just rotate the number 180 degrees and he's right. Quintus and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Although I agree there's still some great new film music to be found, you really have to dig for it, as others have said. I can't imagine a 10 or 12 year old falling in love with film music through the mainstream movies he or she watches and and enjoys. The amount of great film music that was written for mainstream movies when I was 10 or 12 years is staggering. Just between 1992 and 1995, for example, we had stuff like: Twin Peaks - Fire Walk with Me Batman Returns Alien 3 Basic Instinct Sneakers Bram Stoker's Dracula 1492: Conquest of Paradise Jurassic Park Schindler's List The Nightmare Before Christmas Stargate Mary Shelley's Frankenstein Interview with the Vampire The Shadow Legends of the Fall The Shawshank Redemption The Lion King Cutthroat Island Batman Forever First Knight Braveheart Apollo 13 Waterworld Batman Forever And that's just a small sample of fairly mainstream stuff. People from my generation and earlier really had it easy to become film score fans Falstaft, KK, crumbs and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 We're spoilt. ghost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I disagree. We are in the golden age of sound design! Jurassic Shark and ghost 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Romão's was not even a creme de la creme list and it still utterly smashes all new music in movies. Ricard, Jurassic Shark and ghost 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, Jay said: At least the tv and video game front was really strong in 2020 Yes, there were very strong scores in the TV and especially the video game worlds BUT there were PLENTY of strong film scores in 2020. I had a very difficult time trimming down my Top 10 scores of 2020 list. Lots of great stuff, unfortunately, left on the cutting room floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,432 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 For everyone complaining that there isn't great film music being written, I think this may be helpful: https://moviemusicuk.us/2021/01/26/movie-music-uk-awards-2020/ All the best film music that came out last year selected by a specialist. Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Edmilson said: For everyone complaining that there isn't great film music being written, I think this may be helpful: https://moviemusicuk.us/2021/01/26/movie-music-uk-awards-2020/ All the best film music that came out last year selected by a specialist. ^ THIS!!!!!!! TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Quintus said: Romão's was not even a creme de la creme list and it still utterly smashes all new music in movies. It really was a different time. Pretty much the bulk of the highest grossing movies from those years had great scores by really talented composers. You really have to dig much deeper these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 The nice thing about these days, on the other hand, is that if you are curious about a score you don't have to drive to a store and buy it and hope you end up liking it, you can just subscribe to an online music service and listen to all new film music coming out for free to decide what you want to buy Bayesian and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jay said: The nice thing about these days, on the other hand, is that if you are curious about a score you don't have to drive to a store and buy it and hope you end up liking it, you can just subscribe to an online music service and listen to all new film music coming out for free to decide what you want to buy Yes, that's true and it evens out things a bit. But it's still a shame that the larger canvas for musical expression and larger orchestral budgets are not being given to more talented composers. People like Elliot Goldenthal should be in their creative prime, but instead write a score every 5 years or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I thought he had a head injury that almost completely halted his writing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I know he was sick in some way. I'm sure @Thor knows the details! 1 hour ago, Erik Woods said: True. That is some evil shit right there. One has to wonder whether Balfe lobbied to get the gig before Kraemer was out of the picture, or if McQuarrie took the initiative. dyemery 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, Jay said: The nice thing about these days, on the other hand, is that if you are curious about a score you don't have to drive to a store and buy it and hope you end up liking it, you can just subscribe to an online music service and listen to all new film music coming out for free to decide what you want to buy I actually lament the passing of the days when that sort of effort was part and parcel of getting into a score. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 So why isn't there a similar enjoyment of the effort required in finding great scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Because you have to listen through so much mediocre music. KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 But when you used to have to go out to the store to buy a score, you usually had to talk to so many mediocre people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 At least they didn't make mediocre music and hum it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 40 minutes ago, Jay said: I thought he had a head injury that almost completely halted his writing? Yes, and the Titus/300 debacle might have soured him off working with major studios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 20 hours ago, Quintus said: I actually lament the passing of the days when that sort of effort was part and parcel of getting into a score. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I like investing my money in things I already know I like, more so than gambles, personally. The Spotify stream is the (free) gamble. Obtaining the physical CD once you know you like it is the reward! TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Better check out those awesome 30 seconds clips on Allmusic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said: But when you used to have to go out to the store to buy a score, you usually had to talk to so many mediocre people. Not the same thing. Back in the day, the average big movie you went to see in the theatres had some great score you came out humming in your head (re: everything on @Romão’s list). Then you go out of your way to get your hands on that music. I would say that argument still held water in the 00s, which is when I got exposed to folk music. That is a much rarer occurrence now. I think post-2010, you’d be more hard pressed to find scores that inspire new generations of fans. And it doesn’t help that you have to get through an hour of meandering underscore to find 5 minutes of good stuff on the average album. Thank God for Spotify algorithms, which have pointed me to artists I would never have discovered if I was just swimming around the usual Hollywood guys. Otherwise, keeping up with modern film music would truly be unbearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lord Zimmer 211 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Personally, I feel all is going fine. SteveMc, Ricard, TSMefford and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Lord Zimmer said: Personally, I feel all is going fine. How are the Zimlings? Smeltington, SteveMc and MikeH 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Jay said: I thought he had a head injury that almost completely halted his writing? Listening to @Lord Zimmer can do unspeakable things to a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: I know he was sick in some way. I'm sure @Thor knows the details! Goldenthal fell off a chair and smashed his head in the floor about 10 years ago. He's almost back to form now, but it took him a long time to recover, especially his speech. But his reluctance to do more high profile stuff in that period isn't really related to that. It's a self-imposed restriction. Back in the early 2010s, he told me he wanted to do less Hollywood action movies and more small stuff. As for the age-old "Everything sucks these days! Everything used to be so much better back in the golden days of yonder" attitude, I've just learned to ignore that over the years. It's basically people stuck in Plato's cave. Sometimes, it doesn't even work to give them some names and titles to explore. You'll have to physically drag them out of the cave and show them the real world. There's a LOT of great stuff being produced today, and although my taste doesn't always correspond with that of Erik and Jon Broxton (since they were previously cited), I still managed to find a long list of superb scores just last year - as I mention in my 2020 podcast, or available to view in the awards thread. You just have to make an effort and explore. It's very easy, especially in this day and age, with countless podcasts and review sites and what-have-you. And you obviously need an open attitude. If you ignore all suggestions, because you've already made up your mind that everything sucks these days, and nobody will be able to convince you otherwise, you'll remain in Plato's cave for the rest of your life. Which, to some, is a comfort, I guess. None of this has anything to do with Joe Kraemer and his tirade, but I can see why the discussion veered that way. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thor said: There's a LOT of great stuff being produced today, and although my taste doesn't always correspond with that of Erik and Jon Broxton (since they were previously cited), I still managed to find a long list of superb stuff just last year - as I mention in my 2020 podcast, or available to view in the awards thread. I listen to your yearly webcast of highlights, and I'm sorry to say I usually don't hear much that interests me. That's of course partially due to differences in taste, but I do think scores have become more generic and musically less interesting in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Well, how many new scores did you listen to in 2020? If your taste doesn't correspond to mine, it will probably correspond better to others. You should also check out some of the runner-ups I mentioned, or other podcasts and review sites. Erik and Jon, for example, lean more towards the classically symphonic style, which might be more up your alley. But I appreciate you taking a listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thor said: Erik and Jon, for example, lean more towards the classically symphonic style, which might be more up your alley. It definitely is, and I found a few things on Jon's list I'll check out. 3 minutes ago, Thor said: But I appreciate you taking a listen! Gotta hear that ASMR voice! Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 The Kids these days love Hans Zimmer. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Blues 65 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: I haven’t scored a single mainstream Hollywood movie since ‘Rogue Nation’ either. I haven't scored any film before or after Rogue Nation. Jurassic Shark and Ricard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Joe Kraemer posted a followup thread on Twitter: Docteur Qui, TSMefford, Bayesian and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted January 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 29, 2021 Fascinating topic. It’s interesting to see the backlash boiling up about the film composing industry. I’m not at all surprised to hear about these awful conditions, and HZ has actively contributed to it with his business model. His legacy in Hollywood will ultimately not be a musical one, but a capitalistic one. I had the opportunity to move to LA a few years ago and try to crack into the industry. It didn’t take me long to weigh up the options and stay in Australia instead. I do not regret that decision, not least because right now COVID has made things even more difficult for young composers (and as a foreigner I would’ve gone broke instantly). I will never write a Hollywood score now, but I also will not be homeless, starving or exploited in an attempt to do so. Some dreams are not worth pursuing. And for what it’s worth I’ve been getting some great work here while also earning a solid wage teaching. I will be able to buy my own home in a few years which I imagine is not remotely the case for the thousands of people competing in LA. SteveMc, crumbs, Arpy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 LA? What a shithole Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 As long as people think that "life is unfair", they're never gonna get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Kraemer's comments are refreshing to hear in what is such a hush industry, and reflective of the state of the entertainment industry at large. Crunch, deadlines and streaming culture have made the business of filmmaking, music making, game making more hurried than usual. I remember when film productions were years long and there was time to make things on a creative impulse and not to meet schedules (granted technology has streamlined things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 57 minutes ago, Ricard said: As long as people think that "life is unfair", they're never gonna get what they want. Ehh sure, but when the field is disproportionately stacked against you and the goalposts are haphazardly changed on a whim by decision makers far more powerful and influential than you, all it does is discourage you from playing. Even if you keep telling yourself that life is actually "fair", you might still not get what you want, all because you're actively blocked from benefitting. bruce marshall and Docteur Qui 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Since when has being a musician guaranteed financial security or artistic freedom? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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