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John Williams' 2021 anniversaries


Jay
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John Williams' 2021 anniversaries  

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  1. 1. Which of these William's film scores do you most hope to get its premiere release or premiere expansion this year?

    • The Secret Ways (60th anniversary)
    • The Rare Breed (55th anniversary)
    • The Plainsman (55th anniversary)
    • JFK (30th anniversary)
    • Sleepers (25th anniversary)
    • I am not interested in any of these scores getting worked on.
  2. 2. Which of these Williams' expansions do you most hope will be either reissued or redone / reworked this year?

    • How to Steal a Million (55th anniversary)
    • Penelope (55th anniversary)
      0
    • Not with My Wife, You Don't! (55th anniversary)
    • Fiddler on the Roof (50th anniversary)
    • The Missouri Breaks (45th anniversary)
      0
    • Raiders of the Lost Ark (40th anniversary)
    • Hook (30th anniversary)
    • A.I. Artificial Intelligence (20th anniversary)
    • Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (20th anniversary)
      0
    • I am not interested in a new edition of any of these scores.
  3. 3. Which of these Williams' scores that never got an OST album do you most hope will get a new edition this year?

    • Family Plot (45th anniversary)
    • Midway (45th anniversary)
    • Heartbeeps (40th anniversary)
    • I am not interested in a new edition of any of these scores.


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Just had this random thought for a thread I'll do every year

 

Let's discuss the anniversaries (ending in 0 or 5) for John Williams' works that will be happening in 2021!

 

Film Scores major anniversaries

  • April 1961 The Secret Ways (60th anniversary)
  • June 29, 2001 A.I. Artificial Intelligence (20th anniversary)
  • June 12, 1981 Raiders of the Lost Ark (40th anniversary)
  • October 18, 1996 Sleepers (25th anniversary)
  • October 23, 2011 The Adventures of Tintin (10th anniversary)
  • November 3, 1971 Fiddler on the Roof (50th anniversary)
  • November 16, 2001 Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (20th anniversary)
  • December 11, 1991 Hook (30th anniversary)
  • December 18, 1981 Heartbeeps (40th anniversary)
  • December 20, 1991 JFK (30th anniversary)
  • December 25, 2011 War Horse (10th anniversary)

Film Scores minor anniversaries

  • February 2, 1966 The Rare Breed (55th anniversary)
  • April 9, 1976 Family Plot (45th anniversary)
  • May 18, 1976 The Missouri Breaks (45th anniversary)
  • June 6, 1986 SpaceCamp (35th anniversary)
  • June 18, 1976 Midway (45th anniversary)
  • July 1, 2016  The BFG (5th anniversary)
  • July 13, 1966 How to Steal a Million (55th anniversary)
  • August 1966 The Plainsman (55th anniversary)
  • November 2, 1966 Not with My Wife, You Don't! (55th anniversary)
  • November 10, 1966 Penelope (55th anniversary)

Other Works

  • June 4 1986 Liberty Fanfare (35th anniversary)
  • July 19, 1996 Summon the Heroes (25th anniversary)
  • October 10, 1961 Alcoa Premiere Theater (60th anniversary)
  • ? 1966 Symphony No. 1 (60th anniversary)
  • ? 1981 Evening at the Pops (40th anniversary)
  • ? 1991 Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra (30th anniversary)
  • ? 1996 Concerto for Trumpet and Orchestra (25th anniversary)
  • ? 2011 Concerto for Oboe and Orchestra (10th anniversary)

 

What TV works are worth noting from 1961/66?

 

All his Lost in Space episodes aired in 1965 and both his Amazing Stories episodes aired in 1985.

 

What else am I forgetting?

 

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38 minutes ago, Jay said:

What TV works are worth noting from 1961/66?

 

A bunch of stuff, but in terms of TV shows that actually started in 1961, and where Williams was heavily involved, it's only ALCOA PREMIERE THEATRE that I would count. Incidentally, my second most requested Williams title after STORY OF A WOMAN, and I would buy an ALCOA box in a heartbeat. 

 

1966 was Williams' busiest year in the whole of his career. I pine for the symphony to be released. Maybe time for a THE TIME TUNNEL set too, even though Williams' episode is already released in the Irwin Allen box. Now that LiS and LAND OF THE GIANTS already have extensive boxed sets, it's TTT's time to get the same treatment.

 

As for your poll, I only voted in the first category -- and for THE SECRET WAYS.

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I know nothing about Alcoa Premiere Theater - did he score every episode?  Was his opening theme used in every episode?

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Just now, Jay said:

I know nothing about Alcoa Premiere Theater - did he score every episode?  Was his opening theme used in every episode?

 

Yes, and yes. It's the only time in his career where he composed ALL of the music for an entire series (even though the series also imported a couple of episodes from related shows that had no score, or score by others).

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2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Is there anything from Raiders of the Lost Ark left unpublished? And even if, 2 additional minutes or so would not justify a new release.

...no speed issues? Proper complete program? New rebuild from the earliest source for a better sound? Alternates? No motherfucking chunk cut out of Desert Chase?

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23 minutes ago, Thor said:

I pine for the symphony to be released. 

 

Wasn't that from 1965?

 

Quote

As for your poll, I only voted in the first category -- and for THE SECRET WAYS.

 

But for the other 2 questions, straight reissues count.  For example, if you would like the ability for new fans to be able to (legally) hear How To Steal  A Million or The Missouri Breaks, you could vote for that

 

20 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Is there anything from Raiders of the Lost Ark left unpublished? And even if, 2 additional minutes or so would not justify a new release.

 

Yes, 3 cues (1M3 Insert8M3 Escaping The Pit, and 8M3 Fix (Alternate)) are not on the OST album or the 1995 expansion or the 2008 expansion, and 8M2 Marion Into The Pit is only on the 1995 vinyl edition

 

As far as "justifying a new release" goes, literally every edition of Raiders of the Lost Ark that exists is completely Out Of Print right now (though admittedly Amazon still has copies of the Concord CD in stock).  The only legal way to listen to that score is digitally (Disney Records has 2008 Concord edition on the digital music sites), or by finding copies copies of the old CDs or vinyls.

 

19 minutes ago, Thor said:

Yes, and yes. It's the only time in his career where he composed ALL of the music for an entire series (even though the series also imported a couple of episodes from related shows that had no score, or score by others).

 

Awesome, a box set of that would be hella cool.  I wonder if any original elements even exist in a vault anywhere or not.

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5 minutes ago, Holko said:

...no speed issues? Proper complete program? New rebuild from the earliest source for a better sound? Alternates? No motherfucking chunk cut out of Desert Chase?

The complete desert chase is contained in the 1995 release. That is why I always listen to that one.

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Yes, but you are lucky enough to have that; Young fans discovering JW for the first time these days can obtain that via seeking out a used copy.  And do young fans out there discovering Williams even have devices in their homes that play CDs?

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So a 26 year old incomplete release from before they got this whole process down should be the final word on a classic?

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Young fans discovering JW for the first time these days can obtain that via seeking out a used copy.  And do young fans out there discovering Williams even have devices in their homes that play CDs?

I have an optical drive of course, for instantly ripping all CDs I have, archiving them as is in one folder and storing my reordered edited versions in another. There's a CD player in the living room too but that barely gets any use.

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I think Raiders of the Lost Ark is an incredibly amazing film score, and a new release up to the modern standards of including the entire score, all the alternates, and the original OST album to cap it off - all rebuilt from scratch from the earliest element still existing in Paramount's (Lucasfilm's?) vaults - would be most welcome.

 

In the particular case of Raiders, I don't know if it would be better to present the main program & bonus tracks from Tomlinson's 1981 film mixes and the OST album from John Neal's 1981 album remix, or pull a CE3K/Superman and remix the entire thing from the 1st gen multitrack and have the OST album rebuild now sound the same as the main program.

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13 minutes ago, Jay said:

And do young fans out there discovering Williams even have devices in their homes that play CDs?

These probably wouldn't care for another CD release. As I voted, there would be other releases that I would desire more. 

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think Raiders of the Lost Ark is an incredibly amazing film score, and a new release up to the modern standards of including the entire score, all the alternates, and the original OST album to cap it off would be most welcome.

That's true. And I am afraid, I would buy it, even though I am satisfied with what I have.

 

And a little off topic question because it is unrelated to these anniversaries. But would anybody be interested in a CD or even a boxset containing all songs Williams wrote including remastered Thomas and the King? And if yes rather the originals or re-recordings? 

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A boxset of all songs would be great, but since each song is owned by a different entity a box set of the original recordings would probably never happened.

 

A re-recording album of his songs could though

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It's just, apart from some exceptions I am not a big fan of Williams songs. A song album or box would put them in a different context and offer me probably a better way to approach them.

Just different singers accompanied by Williams at the piano. I think, that would be great.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Wasn't that from 1965?

 

It was composed in 1966, but premiered in 1968.

 

The votes appear to be "secret" this time around?

 

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

Songwriting isn't his biggest strength

 

True, but he does have some good ones. This thread might be a good resource for people looking for a complete list of Williams' songs.

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5 minutes ago, Thor said:

It was composed in 1966, but premiered in 1968.

 

Wikipedia says "Symphony No. 1" is from 1965.  Is wikipedia wrong, or are we talking about different things?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williams#Other_orchestral_works

 

 

Quote

The votes appear to be "secret" this time around?

 

Fixed

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Wikipedia says "Symphony No. 1" is from 1965.  Is wikipedia wrong, or are we talking about different things?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williams#Other_orchestral_works

 

The Wikipedia entry is wrong. Technically, I guess you could say 1968 is the release date, since that was the premiere with Previn and the Houston Symphony. Depends on one's definition. But 1966 is the composition date.  

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17 minutes ago, Jay said:

Songwriting isn't his biggest strength

Still I think, that is the reason why he didn't win more academy awards. The academy loves songwriters. 

Otherwise how could Fame else win over The Empire Strikes Back and Menken win six Oscars in three years in a row? 

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Actually, it might seem 1966 was the premiere date too, not just the composition date. I've always separated between 66 and 68, but a few years ago, this newspaper article from 1972 shed some new light on the proceedings:

 

 

jwsymphony2.jpg

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Well that definitely confirms it premiered in 1966.  Composition date is somewhat irrelevant really.

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46 minutes ago, Jay said:

Well that definitely confirms it premiered in 1966.  Composition date is somewhat irrelevant really.

 

Composition dates/time spans are interesting in a biographical sense, but the relevant "release dates" of music have always been the publishing date and the date of the premiere performance.

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Plainsman or The Secret Ways, neither of which I've heard in any meaningful way.  Rare Breed at least has a meaty rerecording

Hook - the least comprehensively covered of the scores on the second list

Heartbeeps - currently OOP, I only own the digital version from iTunes.  I'd buy a CD.  I have the others on CD and am happy with that.

 

I was somewhat tempted to vote for an improbable third volume of music from Not With My Wife You Don't

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A new edition of Not With My Wife You Don't that combines the film recordings on one disc with the OST album on another disc would be most welcome, IMO.

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It does - I grew up with Raiders and Hook is from my young childhood, so they feel old.  WAR HORSE was released when I was a grown adult and I have clear memories of sitting my grown adult self down in the theater for it, so it doesn't feel like it should be ten years ago.

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Yea, that's what it I guess ; Raiders and Hook were already "old" movies by the time I was listening to film music, but Tintin and War Horse were new scores I anticipated and remember getting the OST and seeing the films in the theater

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On 2/3/2021 at 6:20 PM, Jay said:

Songwriting isn't his biggest strength

I am sure there are millions of people out there who think that Williams writes great songs :devil:

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For the second option on the poll, I was tempted to put A.I. but ultimately went with Hook, just to see what else can be unearthed after 30 years. The LLL release of A.I. is already pretty comprehensive, and we know which bits are missing

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3 hours ago, Corellian2019 said:

For the second option on the poll, I was tempted to put A.I. but ultimately went with Hook, just to see what else can be unearthed after 30 years.

 

There's definitely some unearthed, unreleased goodies they weren't allowed to include back in 2012 (and they never clarified what was found in the vaults, but it sounded juicy).

 

Hopefully Mike can resolve that situation someday. 30th Anniversary seems like as good excuse as any :P

 

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Yes, 3 cues (1M3 Insert8M3 Escaping The Pit, and 8M3 Fix (Alternate)) are not on the OST album or the 1995 expansion or the 2008 expansion, and 8M2 Marion Into The Pit is only on the 1995 vinyl edition

 

Just noticed Raiders has had a new release basically every 13 years. Seems we're due for a new edition in 2021 :)

 

Pure speculation but hopefully Spielberg's team hired Mike to produce an Atmos remix of Raiders for the upcoming 4K remaster (he's mentioned similar things in the past, like an Atmos remix of the Amazing Stories main titles for the new Apple+ series) and mayyyyybe he used that as a springboard to get Indy expansions underway.

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I went with JFK (don’t like the songs sprinkled throughout the OST), Hook (for unreleased material), and Heartbeeps (have the VS release but is it complete and could it sound better?)

 

Silly question...  but why would you have HP as an option when we just got the glorious set released 2 years ago?

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I don't understand what you mean. I just listed all the scores that fit each poll question (minus the onea after the union fee increase). How recent or comprehensive their releases were played no factor

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55 minutes ago, Jay said:

I don't understand what you mean. I just listed all the scores that fit each poll question (minus the onea after the union fee increase). How recent or comprehensive their releases were played no factor


I understand your need to have your list complete but I think it’s silly to put Harry Potter in this poll when the box set just came out, that’s all.  

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14 hours ago, Jay said:

I think Raiders of the Lost Ark is an incredibly amazing film score, and a new release up to the modern standards of including the entire score, all the alternates, and the original OST album to cap it off - all rebuilt from scratch from the earliest element still existing in Paramount's (Lucasfilm's?) vaults - would be most welcome.

 

In the particular case of Raiders, I don't know if it would be better to present the main program & bonus tracks from Tomlinson's 1981 film mixes and the OST album from John Neal's 1981 album remix, or pull a CE3K/Superman and remix the entire thing from the 1st gen multitrack and have the OST album rebuild now sound the same as the main program.

 

A rebuilt from scratch for RAIDERS wont be neccessary since the Eric Tomlinson mix knocks it off the park.But then Matessino always does a great job making the best of it. Both SUPERMAN & CLOSE ENCOUNTERS sound phenonmenonal. However, the OST had a very differnt mix (and I'm not sure how much Shawn Murphy did rework this on the concord set). 'The Map Room' on the OST mix stands out in particular with the snares mixed louder and upfront (I think) 

 

It would be great if RAIDERS got a special 2CD Restoration- Its one of my top3 Williams !

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I voted "not interested" for 1 and 3... but it's because I don't know any of these scores and would be kind of equally interested in checking any of them out when they arrive.

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4 hours ago, Amer said:

A rebuilt from scratch for RAIDERS wont be neccessary since the Eric Tomlinson mix knocks it off the park.But then Matessino always does a great job making the best of it. Both SUPERMAN & CLOSE ENCOUNTERS sound phenonmenonal. However, the OST had a very differnt mix (and I'm not sure how much Shawn Murphy did rework this on the concord set). 'The Map Room' on the OST mix stands out in particular with the snares mixed louder and upfront (I think) 

 

It would be great if RAIDERS got a special 2CD Restoration- Its one of my top3 Williams !

 

Seeing as the OST was only 43 minutes long, there should be enough room on 2 discs for the complete film score + alternates + remastered OST (especially if the album had alternate mixes).

 

As for whether Mike rebuilds Raiders from scratch, wouldn't that just depend on what elements are available? If the Tomlinson mixes are second-generation, he might prefer to remix the score from scratch using the first-gen multitracks (like with Superman) to ensure the best possible quality.

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

 

Seeing as the OST was only 43 minutes long, there should be enough room on 2 discs for the complete film score + alternates + remastered OST (especially if the album had alternate mixes).

 

As for whether Mike rebuilds Raiders from scratch, wouldn't that just depend on what elements are available? If the Tomlinson mixes are second-generation, he might prefer to remix the score from scratch using the first-gen multitracks (like with Superman) to ensure the best possible quality.

 

Whatever suits Mike, Im in. :)

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Yea that's why I phrased it by saying I don't know what's better... With both CE3K (77) and Superman (78), finding that 1st gen multitrack - the actual tape that was running in the room as the scores were played - led to an increase in fidelity that was just not possible by sticking with the mixes made in 77/78, which only existed on a second gen tape that simply stored less fidelity than the first gen multitrack.  This meant Mike had to make a brand new mix, but I think everyone is happy with all the mixing decision he made. It's not like either is radically different from the original film mixes, they are kind of a "modern version" of the same mixing ideology originally used. (the biggest improvement, I'd say, is you can more clearly hear all the different instruments, especially the choir). 

 

For Raiders (81), I don't know if the fidelity lost when saving the Tomlinson film mix (or Neal album mix) onto second gen tape is equivalent to those 77/78 scores or if the tech had improved a lot by then. Additionally, I don't even know of the original multitrack is in a known location or not, so it might not even be a possibility. Finally, sometimes the 3track film mixes are dubbed back onto spare channels on the original multitrack, which could be the case here too - I have no idea 

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And sometimes the first-generation multitracks include the live mixes, usually on the last 2 tracks. So technically those would be first generation but who knows if mixing from scratch with modern tech would yield better results than an analogue mixing desk from the 70s.

 

I'm pretty sure the Star Wars multitracks had the live mixes stored on tracks 15 and 16. There was a breakdown somewhere that listed each track's contents. ESB's multitracks may have contained the live LCR mixes, IIRC.

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I don't think there's any doubt that Mike working with 2021 restoration tech could make new albums for all the old Star Wars and Indiana Jones scores that sound better than any album that's been released from them before.  I wish Disney Records would hurry up and hire him to do so!

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I can't imagine that John Williams wouldn't want to be involved in a Star Wars box set now. It is such an incredible achievement, he must care a little to approve a definitive presentation of it. And considering what I can surmise from reading his interviews over the years, he likes the Indy scores even more so that must be just around the corner. Especially if he is considering stepping down from Indy 5 now that Spielberg has, this would be the John Williams Indiana Jones Collection, essentially

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