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WandaVision SHOW Discussion


Jay

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1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

After watching today's episode, I have a doubt: how did Wanda's family had a DVD player in 1999, specially considering they lived in a poor East European country? In my family, we only bought a DVD player in late 2001.

Was it 1999?

 

Don't forget the series takes place in 2025+

 

Also I Love Lucy wasn't released on DVD till 2002-2005

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2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

After watching today's episode, I have a doubt: how did Wanda's family had a DVD player in 1999, specially considering they lived in a poor East European country? In my family, we only bought a DVD player in late 2001.


i was surprised. I think it would yet be vhs tapes. Unless someone knows if Europe moved to dvds earlier than US.

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Tonal shift hit like a mack truck - one of the reason we watch every Friday night is to laugh, and no laughs were to be had this week apart from Hahn being quippy a few times

 

Things could have been written in a different way to still have all these emotional reveals happen with the sitcom stuff still happening - oh well

 

Hopefully next week's wrapup is like, an hour long

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2 hours ago, Falco said:

Was it 1999?

 

Don't forget the series takes place in 2025+

 

Also I Love Lucy wasn't released on DVD till 2002-2005

Malcolm in the Middle was early 2000s, but DVDs can exist in any time.

 

I thought this was the best episode so far, all the Agatha stuff was reminiscent of The Master's return in Series 3 of Doctor Who. 

 

One ridiculous thing is how they show Wanda and her family enjoying TV shows then they look out the window to show open warfare on the streets??? They were waiting to be blown up I guess...

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Man that wasn’t good. As soon as the witches(!) in the opening scene started blasting colour-coded CGI at each other my worst fears about this show came true. It’s fully devolved into boring by-the-numbers Marvel. Even Kathryn Hahn was barely watchable, not at all helped by the terrible dialogue given to her. All her charisma has been sapped in what has amounted to a moustache-twirling villain. Looks like next week will be Vision vs Vision, no real story closure and likely Banana Cabbagepatch will show up in a two-second cameo advertising his next movie.

 

I also saw the trailer for Falcon/Winter Soldier, and I couldn’t be less interested in it. What a shame.

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16 hours ago, Arpy said:

Malcolm in the Middle was early 2000s, but DVDs can exist in any time.

 

I thought this was the best episode so far, all the Agatha stuff was reminiscent of The Master's return in Series 3 of Doctor Who. 

 

One ridiculous thing is how they show Wanda and her family enjoying TV shows then they look out the window to show open warfare on the streets??? They were waiting to be blown up I guess...

Can you elaborate on The Master comparison? I’m not really sure what you mean because they seem like totally different situations to me

 

That transition of them watching the TV to the warfare in the streets I believe took place in another time. I figured it was just a mental transition as the flashbacks went from one critical element to the other, I don’t think Wanda was even necessarily watching TV when the bomb hit.

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I unintentially binge-watched the whole thing today. Started watching episode 1 this morning and well... we know how that usually ends.

 

I really enjoyed it up until episode 8, where it started to fall apart a bit for me with all the witch business. I'm not into Marvel, so I'm just about hanging on to all the backstory they put in, but Bettany and Olsen's performances really made it for me. Beck's score had its occasional moments, but nothing more than that.

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7 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Can you elaborate on The Master comparison? I’m not really sure what you mean because they seem like totally different situations to me

 

That transition of them watching the TV to the warfare in the streets I believe took place in another time. I figured it was just a mental transition as the flashbacks went from one critical element to the other, I don’t think Wanda was even necessarily watching TV when the bomb hit.

The Master comparison was a stretch, but the overall tone is the same; an ancient nemesis revealing him/herself to be behind everything all along and trapping the hero in their schemes.

 

As for the bombing - it's all within the same scene and all of her family are watching television when the bomb hits; we see Wanda and her brother propelled forwards with the blast. It makes one wonder whether the father was smuggling DVDs in instead of supplies:

 

Wanda's Mother: Oh thank goodness you made it back safe, did you manage to get those meds we need?

 

Wanda's Father: No, but I got something better *pulls out a DVD of Malcolm in the Middle*

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On 2/27/2021 at 4:04 AM, TheUlyssesian said:


i was surprised. I think it would yet be vhs tapes. Unless someone knows if Europe moved to dvds earlier than US.

In Poland DVD's appeared in 1998.

 

Karol

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51 minutes ago, Arpy said:

The Master comparison was a stretch, but the overall tone is the same; an ancient nemesis revealing him/herself to be behind everything all along and trapping the hero in their schemes.

 

As for the bombing - it's all within the same scene and all of her family are watching television when the bomb hits; we see Wanda and her brother propelled forwards with the blast. It makes one wonder whether the father was smuggling DVDs in instead of supplies:

 

Wanda's Mother: Oh thank goodness you made it back safe, did you manage to get those meds we need?

 

Wanda's Father: No, but I got something better *pulls out a DVD of Malcolm in the Middle*

Hmm, if true that is a little silly.

Ah, you were referring more towards the part where he's revealed to be Harold Saxon, not when he first realises he's The Master. I can see that, Hann has similar energy to Simm at times.

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Jimmy Fallon still can't act but Elizabeth Olsen and Katherine Hahn are good in this (too bad they don't have better microphones in their homes though)

 

 

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Some wonky CGI work in this finale, probably blew their quota throughout the rest of the season. Was sad to see Agatha defeated so quickly as I loved her opposite Wanda, and the dynamic between the two. I'm hoping if she returns, she can save Wanda from the corruption of the Scarlet Witch? Who knows?

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I enjoyed it but I know many people will feel let down. But then, I really do like Scarlet Witch from the comics so this series finally gives us a proper version. 

 

Bring on Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness!

 

Karol

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I echo the sentiments of disappointment. I think it's disappointing moreso than other Marvel movies, because typically the big CGI battle is what I expect and it makes sense with such a violent being like Thanos or something. And it totally could've worked here...but it just doesn't feel like what they were building towards.

 

Episodes 1-7 are some of my favorite things that Marvel has put out in the MCU. They're clever and they're fun, but still have moments that are quite dark and twisted. It felt like different territory for them, which was fantastic. But when you do all that, you have to end it differently than you usually do your endings. I feel like they kept building towards a far more emotionally-based climax that would revolve first and foremost around Wanda letting go of her family and the safe life she had created and....we kind of got that, but it felt like an afterthought to the CGI Witch Battle, Wanda getting her new outfit, and this massive mythos reveal right at the end that was there to set-up the future movies.

 

Plus, there's tons of build-up that goes unfulfilled.

  1. Monica Rambeau almost feels like the second female lead in the first 7 episodes. She's a great character and slowly got built up and emphasized more. Plus, we literally get this whole subplot of her, Woo, and Darcy figuring out a way into the Hex that results is Rambeau able to make in back in on her own, as if Wanda wanted her to come find her or something...and in the end? She gets trapped by fake Pietro and might as well have not been in the final episode. What the hell? They completely dropped the ball. I was hoping for a more emotionally centric climax where these two great and powerful women connect over similar trauma (losing someone you love) and thought that Rambeau would play an absolutely essential role in Wanda coming to terms with her grief. Instead she's barely around. Ridiculous. We also kind of lose track of Darcy as well, but she at least pins Hayward in his car. Woo also ended up doing more in the last episode than I feel like Rambeau did. Her scenes felt more like a set-up for Captain Marvel 2 than they did an actual pay off for her characters story. She got the Finn treatment.
  2. Speaking of Hayward (Director of S.W.O.R.D.), why was he such a douche? I get that he wanted to reclaim Vision and his weaponry and all that, but like...why? It also felt like they were building some big reveal or connection, but he ends up coming across as a one-dimensional evil dude. Also, relating to this, was the footage of Wanda stealing Vision...faked? She didn't even take his actual body (how else would Hayward's vision exist) so what gives? Not even going address this? (Maybe they did and I missed it?)
  3. The townspeople are shown secretly to be in tons of pain and suffering and I don't feel like they properly addressed this either. We kind of got it, but it really felt flat in the end. I think this could've contributed more to Wanda's sort of gray characterization in this whole thing and made her final exile more powerful. There are decently well-established characters in the townspeople group and I feel like they could've played a bigger role in the final two episodes.

And don't even get me started on the huge exposition dump that is Episode 8. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to know all this information, but the whole episode is a LOT of information that isn't really clearly conveyed. I think, if the first 7 episodes are any indication, they could've far more cleverly woven this info and the reveals into the events of Episode 9 (like through the townspeople, who have her nightmares at night and are feeling her pain). It kills the pacing of the story as well. I ended up coming away with so many more questions than answers when it comes to what Wanda is and where her powers come from and all that.

 

Those are my thoughts. I think the finale shined more during the final scenes with Wanda & Vision (and even the scenes with the two visions were kind of interesting) and far far less during it's scenes with the magic and mythos it was trying to introduce and handle. Not to mention there are too many villains. When the family gets surround by the military, Hayward Vision, and Agatha I was like...well this is silly.

 

It started off so promising and kept up that momentum for long enough that I thought it would stick the landing, but it really didn't for me. Very unfortunate.

 

I'm going to echo some feeling I have about Last Jedi here as well: Just because I expect you to build to something doesn't mean you have to avoid doing that thing. Sometimes the expected result can be more fulfilling than veering off for no real reason than just to try and not do what people expect.

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2 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

Plus, there's tons of build-up that goes unfulfilled.

  1. Monica Rambeau  Her scenes felt more like a set-up for Captain Marvel 2 than they did an actual pay off for her characters story. She got the Finn treatment.
  2. Speaking of Hayward (Director of S.W.O.R.D.), why was he such a douche? I get that he wanted to reclaim Vision and his weaponry and all that, but like...why? It also felt like they were building some big reveal or connection, but he ends up coming across as a one-dimensional evil dude. Also, relating to this, was the footage of Wanda stealing Vision...faked? She didn't even take his actual body (how else would Hayward's vision exist) so what gives? Not even going address this? (Maybe they did and I missed it?)
  3. The townspeople are shown secretly to be in tons of pain and suffering and I don't feel like they properly addressed this either. We kind of got it, but it really felt flat in the end. I think this could've contributed more to Wanda's sort of gray characterization in this whole thing and made her final exile more powerful. There are decently well-established characters in the townspeople group and I feel like they could've played a bigger role in the final two episodes.

 

1. I thought it was building up Secret Invasion or whatever its called as well?

2. I thought it was because he dislikes superpowered people because of life during the 5 yrs post snap etc.

3. Didn't this get hinted at all trhoughout the episodes? With the people Vision woke up like Norm etc.?

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The biggest issue I've had with this show is that Wanda is essentially a non-character, we know little of her life beyond the films and when we are given brief flashbacks of her life as a child living in war-torn Sokovia, they're so short and cheap that they barely leave any impact. The best characterisation this show has to offer is the idea that the Scarlet Witch is some cosmic entity that is acting through Wanda and that Agatha whilst power-hungry was also terrified of what Wanda had unleashed.

 

Did anyone else think that the Illusionary Vision was going to merge with the White Vision to become the newly restored Vision? 

 

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2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Did anyone else think that the Illusionary Vision was going to merge with the White Vision to become the newly restored Vision? 

 From what I could understand, Illusion Vision gave White Vision his memories so he can become the new Vision. It's like the ship metaphor: a different Vision but with original Vision's memories. 

 

It'll be interesting to see when this new Vision will show up again. 

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3 hours ago, Falco said:

1. I thought it was building up Secret Invasion or whatever its called as well?

2. I thought it was because he dislikes superpowered people because of life during the 5 yrs post snap etc.

3. Didn't this get hinted at all trhoughout the episodes? With the people Vision woke up like Norm etc.?

 

Somehow I missed hearing about Secret Invasion. That's probably it. They could've still done this without completely wasting her character in the final episode.

 

I mean perhaps? Idk. My gripe is that there's not enough for me personally to pick up on that. He ends up getting sidelined as well in the final episode and doesn't really have a proper resolution after being built up and featured more heavily in the first 7.

 

Well, yes, definitely it was hinted. That's why it's on my build-up with no payoff list. They talk about it, have these horrific moments where their true pain is revealed, but it didn't go anywhere. The townspeople just end up glaring at Wanda for the most part in the final episode and I'm like...really? Thats it? I just think since they were all experiencing her pain and her nightmares they could've explored that more. Especially since these characters are, again, featured more heavily in the first 7. 

 

The first 7 episodes and the final two feel like two completely different shows or that they were written by two completely different people. There's lots of build-up that doesn't get resolved or paid off. Quite disappointing to me.

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

The first 7 eps felt like a cool new thing. The rest felt like MCU product #3486 that is setting up MCU products 5934,7083,and 9431

 

Oof, so perfectly put. Although I must admit, I kinda expected that to happen. I already started to feel it as soon as the real world began creeping in around - what was that, episode 4? Like, the whole series was enjoyable, but my favorite stretch is definitely the first few episodes.

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Meh. Typical Marvel third act syndrome. Takes a perfectly interesting concept, and squanders its potential in a massive CGI-fest and Marvel Universe setup info-drop.

 

Elizabeth Olsen is a real pleasure to watch though, and she does the best she can with the material.

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Just now, GerateWohl said:

Can anybody explain how Vision, who couldn't remember anything before Westview, could transfer his complete Memory to the white Vision?

He didn't. White Vision already has the memories in his hard drive but could not access them. Fake Vision only helped him open up the memory bank. 

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

Real shame Marvel reverted to type in the final episode. 

 

I'm still thoroughly unsurprised. Reality had to leak in eventually, and reality in the MCU has a very, very firmly established vibe.

 

They sure had fun doing something different in the early episodes, though!

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If I'm not mistaken, the first 7 episodes were filmed pre-covid, and then the last two were filmed months later when things opened up again. Could explain why Darcy only had one microscene

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4 hours ago, Jay said:

If I'm not mistaken, the first 7 episodes were filmed pre-covid, and then the last two were filmed months later when things opened up again. Could explain why Darcy only had one microscene

 

Oh wow, I didn't realize that. I just assumed they shot it all before the world ended.

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The last two episodes certainly felt smaller and less ambitious, despite the large-scale VFX (which felt like over-compensation for plot/story deficiencies).

 

COVID restrictions would explain things.

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The relation between form and content fell completely out of balance with this show, like so much other Disney productions recently (e.g. all the remakes of their animated classics). 

So many details of the copied comedy shows, fashion, hairdress, special effects, score and a script written on a beer lid.

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It also seems the first 7 episodes were filmed in Georgia, and when they came back from lockdowns they only filmed in LA. That seems surprising, it must have been a bitch to get the exteriors (their neighborhood street and the town square) to match. Unless they refilmed the earlier town square scenes on the new LA exterior? 

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The final two episodes were going to feel different regardless of the production hitches, not only did they break away from the TV gimmick, but they were essentially the showdown of all the various forces. The two witches and Visions flying around is all CG shenanigans anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Arpy said:

The final two episodes were going to feel different regardless of the production hitches, not only did they break away from the TV gimmick, but they were essentially the showdown of all the various forces. The two witches and Visions flying around is all CG shenanigans anyway.

I believe some of those creative choices were the result of the different production parameters. A conclusion mostly done through post-production would make sense given limited access to locations and actors.

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Well this explains a lot

 

Quote

“We wrapped in Atlanta and the pandemic hit, and we ended up having several months off, so further changes happened during that,” Shakman said. “We were doing post-production, and then ideas would come up and little changes would happen.”

 

One of the changes was Monica Rambeau’s role in the finale. The rogue S.W.O.R.D. agent and newly empowered hero curiously didn’t have much to do in the finale apart from uncover the secret behind Ralph Bohner (a reference to Growing Pains, which Shakman starred in as a child actor) and give Wanda a tender parting piece of validation. “We built and rebuilt so many different versions of how [Monica] would function in the finale,” Shakman said. “She had in some versions a much bigger role to play in the larger fight that was happening.”

 

One of those versions, in which Monica had a whole storyline with Ralph, Darcy, and Wanda’s kids, was even shot before it was ultimately cut due to unfinished VFX. It was a segment that would have uncovered the true form of Agatha’s rabbit familiar, Senor Scratchy, Shakman revealed:

 

“We did have something planned for Senor Scratchy which we ultimately couldn’t do just because the finale had so many different chess pieces. But we did have a whole sequence where Darcy, Monica, Ralph meet up with the kids, and they’re in Agatha’s house, and they think that maybe they should steal the Darkhold from the basement because the kids has seen it down there when they were being held hostage. And they go down to get the book, and as they reach out to get the book, the rabbit hops up in front of the book. And they’re like, “Oh it’s Senor Scratchy, he’s the best!” And they reach over the scratch him and he hisses and this whole American Werewolf in London transformation happens where rabbit turns into this big demon. And a Goonies set piece ensues where they try to escape from the rabbit. We shot it, but didn’t finish all the VFX for it. It was a great sequence, it was super fun and everyone was great in it, but we ended up moving it aside because it was a huge detour in the middle of everything going on.”

 

“Things were constantly changing and getting rewritten,” Shakman said, adding that the production of WandaVision is not unlike the process of a typical television series production. Because of their process, the finale was set to be completed only two weeks before it was set to be released on Disney+, throwing a wrench in Marvel’s original plans to release the first three episodes simultaneously. Marvel would end up releasing just the first two episodes so they wouldn’t have to delay the finale.

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/wandavision-finale-matt-shakman-cut-storylines/

 

So they did have more for Darcy to do, filmed it, then cut it... and Monica was supposed to do more too.


And they were really rushed to finish the Finale.  Basically covid really affected the show, and rather than delaying it even more to allow a usual post-production process, Disney rushed it to the airwaves.  Oh well

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That would have been good to keep in.  That was one of the most jarring things, everything that happens in episode 8 and 9 don't really line up with the reveal and song at the end of 7

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