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WandaVision SHOW Discussion


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15 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

This is technically the first MCU show - as in produced to be actually part of the main timeline of MCU and overseen by the same studio.

 

Any other Marvel shows are not MCU but just general marvel shows.


Why doesn’t Agent Carter count?

 

Yavar

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On 2/20/2021 at 6:31 PM, TheUlyssesian said:

This is technically the first MCU show - as in produced to be actually part of the main timeline of MCU and overseen by the same studio.

 

Any other Marvel shows are not MCU but just general marvel shows.

 

It technically is and it technically isn't!

 

It absolutely is the first TV show made by Marvel Studios, the branch of Disney run by Kevin Fiege that has made all the MCU movies, and it is therefore as equally canon as every movie, and the first show to be considered as such right off the bat.

 

 

But before Marvel Studios starting making their own shows, there was Marvel Television.  Marvel Television was dissolved in 2019, but before that happened they had 5 different branches of content, the first 3 of which were, let's say "MCU adjacent":

 

Netflix - Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Punisher, Defenders

ABC - Agents of SHIELD, Agent Carter, Slingshot, Most Wanted, Inhumans, New Warriors

Hulu/Freeform - Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, Helstrom

 

And 2 branches that had no MCU ties at all

 

FX - Legion

Fox - The Gifted

 

 

I call those initial 3 branches "MCU Adjacent" because it was a 1-way street:  Those shows made references to, and some contained cameos of actors reprising their roles from, the original MCU movies.  However the MCU movies never made any references to anything that happened in any of these shows at all, other than as little easter eggs.  You can view these MCU-adjacent shows as supporting things that happened in the movies - IE, filling in some details - but future MCU movies could contradict any of those details if they want to.  You also don't need to see any of these "adjacent" shows to understand the movies at all - which is different from WandaVision, which will clearly be as important to future movies as any previous MCU movie could be.

 


The exception to THAT is Agent Carter, which is only Marvel Television show that Fiege actually played a role in.  Not only did that show feature multiple character that originated from the MCU movies played by the same actors, but a new character first seen in that show - Edwin Jarvis - eventually showed up in Endgame played by the same actor.  So I think Agent Carter can be considered as canon as WandaVision.... though in its short run they never actually had any plots that really had too much to do much with later MCU events, so it's not important to see to understand the MCU films as WandaVision is.  But it was a great show!  Certainly the best show out of all the ones Marvel Television made, easily.

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Not really.  By that logic it makes the scenes with the older version of her in Winter Soldier and Ant-man "useless" too

 

It's still worth watching!  Great cast, setting, and premise.

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Also by that logic, the original Star Trek series, The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine have all been made "useless" thanks to the time fuckery in the J.J. Abram's reboot.

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The difference is that Abrams' movie was sort of a reboot, so it takes place in an alternate Trek universe - the Kelvinverse, I believe. As for Endgame, it takes place in the same universe, but with the story re-written by time travel. 

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15 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The difference is that Abrams' movie was sort of a reboot, so it takes place in an alternate Trek universe - the Kelvinverse, I believe. As for Endgame, it takes place in the same universe, but with the story re-written by time travel. 

 

The way the Hulk explains time travel, there should be multiple Marvel universes as well. It's just the ending with Captain America as an old man that seems to contradict this.

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1 minute ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

The way the Hulk explains time travel, there should be multiple Marvel universes as well. It's just the ending with Captain America as an old man that seems to contradict this.

Cap lived with Peggy in an alternate universe and went back to his own universe in the end ass a old man to give the shield to Sam. 

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WandaVision 1x07 Breaking the Fourth Wall 

 

Anyone else confused by the setting of this?  It seemed very Modern Family ish for sure, especially with the interview bits and Wanda acting like a cross between Claire and Haley for the most part, but the house didn't really look like any of the houses on that show and the opening theme song was clearly modeled after The Office's for some reason (The Office isn't a sitcom, its a workplace comedy.... strange choice)

 

Vision's adventures with Darcy were great.  I loved her outfit and all their banter was really well done, as was his interview bits and finally turning transparent at the end.  It's kinda strange that Agatha's powers didn't extent to stopping his powers (even after he "woke her up" last week) since he was still able to do that and wake up Darcy this week

 

Monica becoming a mutant by going through the barrier for a third time was cool, though it was kinda weird the specifics of her powers weren't really explained.  Her eyes were a different color, she saw a purple sky, and she survived a blast from Wanda.... ok...

 

I wonder to how many people watching was it a surprise that Agnes was the bad guy; I know I assumed so after the first episode (and believe I posted as such here).  I think it's implied that she is behind EVERYTHING, meaning the fake sitcom world was in fact not created by Wanda which explains why she was unable to explain how she did it (because she didn't), but it wasn't clear.  And it's still not clear if it was Wanda or Agatha that stole Vision's body and brought it there, and if it was Wanda or Agatha that left the barrier to threaten the SWORD agents.  Now that I think about, the Hex expanded seemingly under Wanda's control so I guess there's a lot left to explain

 

Hopefully nobody here stops the stream just because the credits have started, as beyond the great music there was a mid-credit scene this week, which reveals that "Pietro" was indeed a plant put there by Agnes.  I guess it remains to be seen if she knows about multiverses and had her impostor look like the Quicksilver of the Fox X-Men universe (Evan Peters) or that that was solely a wink and a nod to us and to her it was just a random person.

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The Agatha thing was clear from the beginning and in my mind was confirmed in the 1970s episode when she was sowing information about Monica Rambeau, although they allllllmost had me fooled around the point that Monica started telling her superiors "It's all Wanda" at the end of the real-world episode..  That end song is off the charts, definitely the best song work so far this season.  I wonder if there will be any sitcomminess at all at this point.  I'd love to see them keep up the facade to some extent and have the world continue to fall apart (like in Wanda's house this week) more and more.

 

So what is Agatha's end game?  I'm curious about the whole "for the children" angle in episode 2.  Does this have something to do with Wanda's two mutant/super children?  It seems like she decided to reveal herself the moment she had the kids in her clutches.

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Did Agatha turn her children into the bunny and the cockroach (or whatever bug that was) that Wanda finds when she goes into her house?  Are Wanda's children even real or part of the facade?

 

I think it's impossible to know at this point what Agatha's plan/endgame is, and it's also impossible to know how much of the hex and the sitcom world was Agnes and how much was Wanda.  For example, what if it's all Wanda, and her powers went as far as creating Agnes to be the villain to have a foil?


On the other hand, her son that can read minds said her mind was quiet, indicating she isn't a westview resident and was faking it the whole time (I guess?)

 

There's a lot to explain in 2 more episodes!

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I have got a question which of course depends heavily on how everything will turn out.

Seems Agatha controls everything inside the Hex including Wanda. But How could she control Wanda when she was stepping out of the Hex, when Wanda was returning the drone to the SWORD team?

 

Let's see, if everything turns out in a halfway logical way.

 

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Well that goes back to my theory from a few pages ago that it wasn't even Wanda that was in that scene with the drone, but Agatha looking like Wanda

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I fear that Agatha will become another forgettable Marvel villain. It will depend of how they will conduct her story.

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Aha!  I thought the intro this week was weird, because while the episode itself was clearly Modern Family inspired ,the theme song was clearly The Office inspired, however the visuals of the theme song were not from either.  Turns out its a reference to some show I've never seen called Happy Endings

 

 

 

Incidentally, I thought it was clever that the SWORD guys couldn't see the broadcasts anymore; June 2009 was when antennaes in the USA switch from analog to digital and Modern Family (and Happy Endings) both premiered after that.  If Darcy was there, she probably would have figured it out for them

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It strikes me that renaming herself Agnes (instead of just calling herself Agatha Harkness) was solely for the comics-savvy audience, as it doesn't seem that Wanda knows who Agatha Harkness is.

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Someone on reddit made a nice list of the major influences of each episode

 

1 : I Love Lucy (51-60), The Honeymooners (55-56), The Dick Van Dyke Show(60-66)
2 : Bewitched (64-72), I Dream of Jeannie (65-70), Green Acres (65-71)
3/4 : The Brady Bunch (69-74), The Partridge Family (70-74), Good Times (74-79)
5 : Family Ties (82-89), Full House (87-95), Family Matters (89-98)
6 : Malcolm in the Middle (00-06), Even Stevens (00-03)
7 : The Office (05-13), Modern Family (09-20), Happy Endings (11-13)

 

I can't really see where they go from here.  Schitt's Creek? Blackish? The Good Place?

 

Perhaps the last 2 eps will no longer have sitcom elements?

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Hmmm, I'm seeing people on reddit suggest that the Darcy / Vision scenes (especially when they were at the circus) had a Arrested Development feel to them.  As a huge AD fan I didn't pick up on any AD vibes at all, what do you guys think?

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Ooooh, that's a fascinating idea I hadn't thought of!

The Agatha All Along song was clearly inspired by The Munsters (64-66)

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He did some great Jim Halpert-ish acting during his interview bits


it's kind of a bummer him and Wanda didn't get to interact in this setting, as Clair and Phil Dunphy always had great chemistry and Olsen did a great Claire impersonation in this episode

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26 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Funny, in Spain, Vision has the same dubbing voice as Phil Dunphy :P

 

 

Here he is dubbed by the same voice actor who did Jake the Dog from Adventure Time, Gilderoy Lockhart from Chamber of Secrets and Bruce Willis in the fourth Die Hard.

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On 2/21/2021 at 10:40 AM, Jay said:

 

It technically is and it technically isn't!

 

It absolutely is the first TV show made by Marvel Studios, the branch of Disney run by Kevin Fiege that has made all the MCU movies, and it is therefore as equally canon as every movie, and the first show to be considered as such right off the bat.

 

 

But before Marvel Studios starting making their own shows, there was Marvel Television.  Marvel Television was dissolved in 2019, but before that happened they had 5 different branches of content, the first 3 of which were, let's say "MCU adjacent":

 

Netflix - Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Punisher, Defenders

ABC - Agents of SHIELD, Agent Carter, Slingshot, Most Wanted, Inhumans, New Warriors

Hulu/Freeform - Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, Helstrom

 

And 2 branches that had no MCU ties at all

 

FX - Legion

Fox - The Gifted

 

 

I call those initial 3 branches "MCU Adjacent" because it was a 1-way street:  Those shows made references to, and some contained cameos of actors reprising their roles from, the original MCU movies.  However the MCU movies never made any references to anything that happened in any of these shows at all, other than as little easter eggs.  You can view these MCU-adjacent shows as supporting things that happened in the movies - IE, filling in some details - but future MCU movies could contradict any of those details if they want to.  You also don't need to see any of these "adjacent" shows to understand the movies at all - which is different from WandaVision, which will clearly be as important to future movies as any previous MCU movie could be.

 


The exception to THAT is Agent Carter, which is only Marvel Television show that Fiege actually played a role in.  Not only did that show feature multiple character that originated from the MCU movies played by the same actors, but a new character first seen in that show - Edwin Jarvis - eventually showed up in Endgame played by the same actor.  So I think Agent Carter can be considered as canon as WandaVision.... though in its short run they never actually had any plots that really had too much to do much with later MCU events, so it's not important to see to understand the MCU films as WandaVision is.  But it was a great show!  Certainly the best show out of all the ones Marvel Television made, easily.


I get your argument. But I think there is still a world of difference between Agent Carter and Wandavision.

 

Wandavision is telling a very consequential important story that will affect the story of the MCU going forward. It directly affects Spiderman 3, Dr. Strange 2, Captain Marvel 2 etc. and others beyond that too.

 

Agenct Carter does not nearly have the same import.  

 

Wandavision also have two leading Avengers in the starring roles. As much as I love Peggy, she was a love interest in a single film. Her leading a show isn't nearly as consequential.

 

Agent Carter does not tell you the primary story of MCU. WandaVision does. 

 

So I would say WandaVision is completely different.

 

And also this could change, but the other marvel shows were meant to be series with seasons. MCU series are all mini-series or event series.

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10 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:


I get your argument. But I think there is still a world of difference between Agent Carter and Wandavision.

 

Wandavision is telling a very consequential important story that will affect the story of the MCU going forward. It directly affects Spiderman 3, Dr. Strange 2, Captain Marvel 2 etc. and others beyond that too.

 

Agenct Carter does not nearly have the same import.  

 

Wandavision also have two leading Avengers in the starring roles. As much as I love Peggy, she was a love interest in a single film. Her leading a show isn't nearly as consequential.

 

Agent Carter does not tell you the primary story of MCU. WandaVision does. 

 

So I would say WandaVision is completely different.

 

I feel like every point you made is a re-wording of the same point I made in the post you quoted.  Like I specifically said the story Agent Carter tells isn't of any importance and I said at least twice that the story of WandaVision is as important as any MCU film.

 

 

Quote

 

And also this could change, but the other marvel shows were meant to be series with seasons. MCU series are all mini-series or event series.

 

Loki and What If...? have already been renewed for a second season and it is my understanding the Wakanda series in development is meant to be ongoing

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

I feel like every point you made is a re-wording of the same point I made in the post you quoted.  Like I specifically said the story Agent Carter tells isn't that important and mentioned multiple times that the story of WandaVision is as important as any MCU film.

 

 

 

Loki has already been renewed for a second season.

 

My mistake then. And admittedly I have no data to go by having only seen WandaVision and no other shows.

 

But to me WandaVision is equal in importance to say a Captain America movie or Thor movie or Iron Man movie or even an Avengers movie in how consequential it is (and might be in the final 2 episodes by the looks of where it is all headed.) So maybe that is why it seems like a universe apart to me from Agent Carter.

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I swear the book they showed in Agatha’s basement was one of the set they showed in Doctor Strange (in Wong’s library). Maybe we’ll get a cameo from Chiwetel Ejiofor’s character.

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I think there's 4 possibilities for what's going on

 

1) It's entirely Agatha.  She stole Vision's body, created the Hex and is mind-controlling every resident inside.  She tricked Wanda into thinking Wanda caused it.  

 

2) It's entirely Wanda.  She stole Vision's body, created the Hex and is mind-controlling every resident inside.  She turned one resident into Agatha to create a false villain to feel better about what she herself did

 

3) It's a mixture of both.  Wanda stole Vision's body and created the Hex and is mind-controlling the residents.  Agatha somehow caught wind of what's going on and inserted herself into things somehow, has been manipulating things inside from the start, but didn't originally cause it all to happen.

 

4) The primary cause of everything is actually a villain yet to be revealed (Mephisto?).  Whoever created it, and everything Agatha's been doing inside it, is actually the plan of this "final boss" - whether they know it or not.

 

 

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There's apparently a deleted end credits scene from Endgame where Wanda stole Vision's body, so I guess that rules out 1?

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I don't think so because the theory is that Agatha stole the body while using a spell (or whatever you call whatever her powers are) that made it look like Wanda on camera (or to any observer)

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Wasn't there a shot in Wandavision proper (episode 4?) of security cam footage that was clearly Wanda stealing Vision's body?

 

(With Magic, all is possible, so it is just as likely Agatha as it is Wanda, but I don't think we need to go to rumored deleted scenes to see it, is all)

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15 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Wasn't there a shot in Wandavision proper (episode 4?) of security cam footage that was clearly Wanda stealing Vision's body?

 

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 the theory is that Agatha stole the body while using a spell (or whatever you call whatever her powers are) that made it look like Wanda on camera (or to any observer)

 

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17 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Wasn't there a shot in Wandavision proper (episode 4?) of security cam footage that was clearly Wanda stealing Vision's body?

 

(With Magic, all is possible, so it is just as likely Agatha as it is Wanda, but I don't think we need to go to rumored deleted scenes to see it, is all)

Well, he might have brought it up, because IIRC what we see in WV is security footage presented by Hayward (which could be doctored, or anything), while the Endgame deleted scene could have been from a "real life" perspective.

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22 minutes ago, Falco said:

the Endgame deleted scene could have been from a "real life" perspective.

 

2 hours ago, Jay said:

(or to any observer)

 

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Right.  Just because they used Elizabeth Olsen to film her taking it in Endgame, and in Episode 4 here, doesn't prevent them from later revealing it was Agatha in disguise. 

 

If you take the Agatha All Along song at face value, she's behind "everything", which would include the creation of the Hex. 

 

I just don't know if we can take it at face value or not. 

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It's going to be a very interesting last two episodes.

I just hope they have a truly satisfying and not too predictable answer. Something that fundamentally affects the status quo of the universe would also be nice. If things are neatly wrapped up then it'll take a lot of the sense of drama out of the whole production I think.

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I wouldn't be surprised if the whole series is just one big setup for the new Dr Strange movie and we don't get any kind of resolution.

 

Agatha All Along is a banger. Been playing it all week, I just cannot get enough of Kathryn Hahn hamming it up. If this is the start of her time as a leading lady I'm here for it, she's one of the most consistently funny actors in Hollywood. And her dramatic chops are nothing to sneeze at either, after watching her in Transparent.

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I always find it amusing when some actor I've loved for a long time suddenly gets all kinds of recognize for a random role.  Like how did people miss all the great work she's been doing for 20 years before WandaVision?

 

She's terrific

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I can't even picture what the structure of this week's episode is going to be.  Too bad D+ doesn't do "next time on..." previews

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12 hours ago, Jay said:

I always find it amusing when some actor I've loved for a long time suddenly gets all kinds of recognize for a random role.  Like how did people miss all the great work she's been doing for 20 years before WandaVision?

 

She's terrific


To be fair, she’s largely been a character actor by trade, relegated to supporting parts in romcoms and guest roles in sitcoms, so most people wouldn’t have noticed her. This is probably her most high-profile role yet.

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I dunno, how many people watch WandaVision every week?  I guess Disney will never tell us. 

 

Free Agents had 3-6 million viewers each week, Parks and Rec was getting 3 million views a week - and I watched both of those as they aired new already knowing who she was from stuff like Anchorman, The Holiday, Step Brothers, How Do You Know, etc

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On 2/23/2021 at 1:39 PM, Bofur01 said:

There's apparently a deleted end credits scene from Endgame where Wanda stole Vision's body, so I guess that rules out 1?

 

On 2/23/2021 at 1:49 PM, Jay said:

I don't think so because the theory is that Agatha stole the body while using a spell (or whatever you call whatever her powers are) that made it look like Wanda on camera (or to any observer)

 

On 2/23/2021 at 3:34 PM, mstrox said:

Wasn't there a shot in Wandavision proper (episode 4?) of security cam footage that was clearly Wanda stealing Vision's body?

 

(With Magic, all is possible, so it is just as likely Agatha as it is Wanda, but I don't think we need to go to rumored deleted scenes to see it, is all)

 

On 2/23/2021 at 3:51 PM, Falco said:

Well, he might have brought it up, because IIRC what we see in WV is security footage presented by Hayward (which could be doctored, or anything), while the Endgame deleted scene could have been from a "real life" perspective.

 

On 2/23/2021 at 4:20 PM, Falco said:

I wasn't addressing your point, (which I agree with) but Mstrox's, and what we see in WV is presented from SWORD/Hayward's persepctive and not the audience's.

 

On 2/23/2021 at 4:24 PM, Jay said:

Right.  Just because they used Elizabeth Olsen to film her taking it in Endgame, and in Episode 4 here, doesn't prevent them from later revealing it was Agatha in disguise. 

 

If you take the Agatha All Along song at face value, she's behind "everything", which would include the creation of the Hex. 

 

I just don't know if we can take it at face value or not. 

Spoiler

Or, it could be, that it was never stolen in the first place I guess, lol

 

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I really like how they did the Wanda storming SWORD sequence. The selective editing totally fooled me in Episode 5, but in a re watch I now realise that Wanda never actually grabbed the body on screen.

 

Quite a fun continuation of the meta ‘real life being edited’ theme that has permeated a lot of the series.

 

Heyward is suss as fuck, and I feel like he was deliberately antagonising Wanda so he could make the footage look convincing. If people saw the after credits scene too, it’s clear what it is that he has been up to with Project Cataract.

 

I have absolutely no clue what was happening in the opening sequence, as all the characters had really strange interactions so it was hard to tell what I should be feeling.

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After watching today's episode, I have a doubt: how did Wanda's family had a DVD player in 1999, specially considering they lived in a poor East European country? In my family, we only bought a DVD player in late 2001.

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