John Williams original composer on Titanic????

[Pelzter 0]

This is the most interesting bit of John Williams-related information I have heard in a long time! Just think what JW could have come up with!! And with all the praise the movie got, the score would almost certainly have landed him his 6th Academy Award.

Someone tell my all about this!

--Pelzter

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262]

This is old news....very old news.

Williams was definatly considered, they probably asked him, but for some reason he never did it.

Horner's score is 100% perfect for the film.

Stefancos-

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Indeed it is, Stefancos. It's corny, overdone, unoriginal, manipulative, and superficial.

[HPFAN 1]

This is old news....very old news.

Williams was definatly considered, they probably asked him, but for some reason he never did it.

Horner's score is 100% perfect for the film.

Stefancos-

I agree.

[A24 4,177]

Indeed it is, Stefancos. It's corny, overdone, unoriginal, manipulative, and superficial.

Cameron lost it when doing Titanic and apparently never found it again. Perhaps Williams had a momentarily sixth sense when he refused it.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Rogue_Leader 2]

This is a friggin rumor. As far as I know Williams was never even approached for this score.

[Mr. Breathmask 524]

Here we go with the Titanic-bashing again.

- Marc who watched Titanic just this morning.

[tpigeon 3]

the fact that Williams scored four other films that were released in 1997 may have had something to do with it. I liked Williams' choices that year anyway. He diversified his musical palette very much that year and proved that he can write good music of any ethnic, historical or cultural background. But either way, I thought the score written for Titanic was fitting for the film and was indeed good, despite the awful choir.

Ted

[HPFAN 1]

What's wrong Titanic? I loved that movie and still do it deserved all the money it grossed.

[Eplicon 51]

I'm not sure Williams was ever considered. I think Horner basically invited himself to do the score, going to Mexico to tell Cameron what an important film he was making (this was at the time when the film was going way overbudget and overdue in its completon). Horner probably realized he shouldn't burn any bridges after the fallout from doing Aliens and saw Titanic as a golden opportunity.

[Ollie 986]

Yes James Cameron wanted Williams to score Titanic at first. There is a book out there on the making of Titanic that goes into detail about this matter. In fact I think the correct title of the book and page number may be archived on this message board somewhere.

[Ollie 986]

Ok the name of the book is Titanic and The Making of James Cameron: The Inside Story of the Three-Year Adventure That Rewrote Motion Picture History.

I've read the chapter myself where it discusses Williams possible involvment. I believe it states that Cameron wanted Williams but he was busy scoring The Lost World. Horner was represented by the same agency that Williams was and one of his (Horner's)agents got his hands on copy of the script and showed it to Horner. Horner immediately fell in love with the story and met with Cameron and the rest is history.

[charlesk 0]

I SO glad that Williams was 'busy' scoring The Lost World. I would hate having Williams score a movie like Titanic, although I'm sure he would do something far less superficial. I didn't like the Cinderella-meets-Romeo-and-Juliet uninspired and predictable script, didn't like the obscene budget and marketing, nor Cameron's ego boost for worse, which made him the king of the mediocre, nor Horner's repetitive pop-balade-trash score with Casio choirs, and the inevitable procession of versions of the theme by screaming Celine Dion and insomnia-killer Kenny G. Its success is a living witness of how audiences are so easy to manipulate with old-time uncreative corny recipes.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Cameron should've gotten Lennie Niehaus to do it; I'm sure he'd've had enough practice from the 1996 Gallagher/Zeta-Jones TV production...it was the freakin' same story, albeit less adroitly handled.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262]

What does adroitly mean?

Stefancos- a foreigner.

[JoeinAR 1,943]

adroitly is old french for haveing or showing skill, or cleverness. Also it means having resourcefulness in handling situations.

Its just Alan sarcastically saying Cameron's Titanic is a better production than the 96 tv production.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262]

Hmmm...the 1996 version was certainly good, and George C. Scott was as watchable as always, but Cameron's version is FAR superiour.

One of the few true Epics of the 1990's.

Stefancos- who still thinks Terminator and Aliens are his better films.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Its just Alan sarcastically saying Cameron's Titanic is a better production than the 96 tv production.

Actually, although part of my post was sarcastic and critical of Cameron's production (the brazen unoriginality of the story), I really do think more highly of Cameron's movie.

Catherine Zeta-Jones, George C. Scott, and even Tim Curry (who's usually at his best when he's playing the smarmy, duplicitous villain) were all at top form, but I never felt the movie really coalesced -- just a lot of diverting sub-plots. I appreciated the 1997 movie's sharper focus, as well as the superior action staging..

A better written script and maybe a somewhat compressed running time would have done wonders to Cameron's movie for me..

[mahler3 471]

Ok the name of the book is Titanic and The Making of James Cameron: The Inside Story of the Three-Year Adventure That Rewrote Motion Picture History.

I've read the chapter myself where it discusses Williams possible involvment. I believe it states that Cameron wanted Williams but he was busy scoring The Lost World. Horner was represented by the same agency that Williams was and one of his (Horner's)agents got his hands on copy of the script and showed it to Horner. Horner immediately fell in love with the story and met with Cameron and the rest is history.

Thanks for clarifying that Mark, I don't know why all of these questions on the legitimacy of this statement occurred in this and a different thread I replied in last week? Why is it so hard to believe that Cameron approched Williams, is stands to reason. Horner and Cameron had fallen out anyway so of course Horner wasn't his first choice!

-Tim (who doesn't like to spread rumours).

[Romão 2,244]

If scoring Titanic would mean he wouldn't have the time to score Amistad or Seven years in Tibet, I'm glad he didn't score that film.

[Morn 7]

Hmm, Titanic.... well it would be a great Williams score, but the cheesyness of the movie would be embrassing for Williams fans. Still, an entertaining movie to be sure.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I wouldn't have minded it as long as he finished The Lost Word, which is one of my faves.

I think both the movie and the score were overrated. I don't bash them, just didn't see what all the hype was about.

[Ricardo Mortimer 43]

John Williams doesn't have an oscar for a song yet. That would be interesting. My Heart Will Go On, the most annoying song of the last century, composed by John Williams...Ohh or rather not  

 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,483]

My Heart Will Go On is great!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

11 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

My Heart Will Go On is great!

 

[Ricardo Mortimer 43]

12 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

My Heart Will Go On is great!

 

No, it's not. Instrumental version, maybe. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

3 minutes ago, Ricardo Mortimer said:

 

No, it's not. Instrumental version, maybe. 

 

Why are you hiding how much you love Celine Dion's voice?

[Fabulin 3,469]

.

[TheUlyssesian 2,447]

I love the theme and hate the song go figure. But the theme is genuinely outstanding.

[Edmilson 6,201]

I wonder how a Williams score for Titanic would be. Perhaps like Far and Away? 

 

Also, I'm not sure it would have a song anyway. When Horner introduced the idea of an end titles song for Cameron, he yelled something like "Schindler's List didn't had a song!". So, if he could count on the Schindler's List composer himself, the last thing he would want is a song.

 

Also, Christ, when this thread was created I was a 10 year old boy! I guess it was by the time I went to cinemas to watch Finding Nemo. I miss those simpler times .

[gkgyver 1,645]

2 hours ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

The only good tune Horner ever wrote

 

That's too bad because the whole world associates it with Celine Dion, and never gave a shit about who actually wrote the theme. 

 

DON'T CALL IT TUNE! I HATE WHEN ZIMMER REFERS TO THEMES AS TUNES 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

This is how we handle things down in Toontown.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,483]

Hey, psst. Doll. Why don't you run downstairs and get me a racin' form.

 

spanks ass

[Quintus 5,396]

7 hours ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

The only good tune Horner ever wrote

 

He wrote a couple of lovely songs for animations too.

 

5 hours ago, gkgyver said:

 

That's too bad because the whole world associates it with Celine Dion, and never gave a shit about who actually wrote the theme. 

 

 

Same as (Everything I Do) I Do it For You being by Bryan Adams.

[publicist 4,640]

4 minutes ago, Quintus said:

He wrote a couple of lovely songs for animations too.

 

Most better than MHWGO, a one-trick pony that is just so sappy.

[crocodile 7,706]

I don't think Horner ever wrote a good song. Very are few less grating than others but that doesn't mean they're any good.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,640]

The best ones are the faux-classical ones, i. e. Listen to the Wind and All Love Can Be

[Brundlefly 2,354]

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Also, Christ, when this thread was created I was a 10 year old boy! I guess it was by the time I went to cinemas to watch Finding Nemo. I miss those simpler times .

I couldn't even read or write back then.

[Quintus 5,396]

35 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I don't think Horner ever wrote a good song. Very are few less grating than others but that doesn't mean they're any good.

 

Karol

 

Well, being a bloke, I rarely pay attention to lyrics (women listen to the lyrics; men listen to the music). But I know very strong melodies when I hear them.

[publicist 4,640]

I will watch you in the darkness
Show you love will see you through
When the bad dreams wake you crying
I'll show you all love can do
All love can do

I will watch through the night
Hold you in my arms
Give you dreams where no one will be
I will watch through the dark
Till the morning comes

For the lights will take you
Through the night to see
All love, showing us all love can be

I will guard you with my bright wings
Stay till your heart learns to see
All love can be

[crocodile 7,706]

59 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

Well, being a bloke, I rarely pay attention to lyrics (women listen to the lyrics; men listen to the music). But I know very strong melodies when I hear them.

There's nothing wrong with Horner's tunes. I just feel that through his melodic gift he expresses his ideas well enough already. And when he adds lyrics on top of it telling you what the music is saying explicitly on its own then  he ends up ruining a perfectly good theme. It's just unbelievably cheesy and redundant.

 

@publicist that's true -- these are slightly less horrible. I actually don't hate the Avatar song. Not sure why. I suppose the poppy feel of the score just works well with it.

 

Karol

[Arpy 4,124]

9 hours ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

The only good tune Horner ever wrote

Garden of Magic *ahem

 

 

[Quintus 5,396]

The lyrics are probably added at the request of the filmmakers to be fair - after noticing those strikingly lucrative melodies.

 

15 minutes ago, publicist said:

I will watch you in the darkness
Show you love will see you through
When the bad dreams wake you crying

 

Googled it, brought up YouTube. I've never seen A Beautiful Mind, yet I do know that song. Which must mean it's a good one.

[Arpy 4,124]

1 minute ago, crocodile said:

There's nothing wrong with Horner's tunes. I just feel that through his melodic gift he expresses his ideas well enough already. And when he adds lyrics on top of it telling you what the music is saying explicitly on its own then  he ends up ruining a perfectly good theme. It's just unbelievably cheesy and redundant.

 

Karol

I get what you're saying, but for something like My Heart Will Go On, did Horner want/write the lyrics or was it something ordained from the higher-ups?

1 minute ago, Quintus said:

The lyrics are probably added at the request of the filmmakers to be fair - after noticing those strikingly lucrative melodies.

Snap

[publicist 4,640]

Horner was a noted publicity whore, and it's a known fact that he pushed Dion on Cameron, mandated the lyrics, arranged the demo recording and so forth. It's in several documentaries on the subject.

 

Bruce Broughton wryly noted that when he was seated next to Horner at an award-related event Horner barely said hello, all but busy to woo a Variety reporter to cover the Apollo 13-score. 

[Chen G. 3,527]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

Quote

The only good tune Horner ever wrote

Garden of Magic *ahem

 

I see your bet, and raise you one Gift of a Thistle.

[bollemanneke 3,163]

8 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I wonder how a Williams score for Titanic would be. Perhaps like Far and Away? 

 

Also, I'm not sure it would have a song anyway. When Horner introduced the idea of an end titles song for Cameron, he yelled something like "Schindler's List didn't had a song!". So, if he could count on the Schindler's List composer himself, the last thing he would want is a song.

 

Also, Christ, when this thread was created I was a 10 year old boy! I guess it was by the time I went to cinemas to watch Finding Nemo. I miss those simpler times .

Who knows, but I for one am very glad JW didn't write Titanic and that we have Horner's fantastic score.

 

Also, I miss those simple times too...

[Brundlefly 2,354]

I am not a fan of James Horner at all, so I don't have to grapple with his cheesy music or gooey songs or constant plagiarism. I wished Williams or Goldsmith had written the score to Titanic, because it would have been much better in every regard (but it's also hard to do much worse than Horner).

[Naïve Old Fart 9,139]

On 7/7/2003 at 6:56 PM, Stefancos said:

Stefancos- who still thinks Terminator and Aliens are his better films.

That's because they are.

 

 

 

On 7/7/2003 at 6:28 PM, Stefancos said:

What does adroitly mean?

Stefancos- a foreigner.

It means "skillful"; "deft"; "clever"

[Richard Penna 3,224]

4 hours ago, publicist said:

The best ones are the faux-classical ones, i. e. Listen to the Wind and All Love Can Be

 

Listen to the Wind is one of the best songs (for a film) I've ever heard.

 

Following years of oversaturation I can't stand the Titanic love theme. I removed just about every reference to it from my playlist when LLL's set came out.