Dambusters remake

[Naïve Old Fart 9,524]

...as long as it includes Nigger the dog.

[Bilbo 3,709]

3 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

...as long as it includes Nigger the dog.

Yeah, Nigger definitely won’t be called Nigger. Digger or Nigs or something but definitely not Nigger. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,524]

Geez, Louise. It's the name of a dog (a dog!) in a film from the '50s. All these woke assholes can just shampoo my crotch.

[Bilbo 3,709]

8 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Geez, Louise. It's the name of a dog (a dog!) in a film from the '50s. All these woke assholes can just shampoo my crotch.

The dog’s name was taken off the memorial at RAF Scampton. So they definitely won’t include it in a film. 

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I believe that's been relegated for Christian Rivers to direct.

There was talks of that alright but after Mortal Engines and the financial difficulties Jackson was in the last year or so I would be surprised if Rivers got to direct too many more films. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

11 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

All these woke assholes can just shampoo my crotch.

 

You wish!

[Jay 37,355]

You guys can stop reporting Richard's post, it was the name of the dog in the old film

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dam_Busters_(film)#Censorship

[Bilbo 3,709]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

You guys can stop reporting Richard's post, it was the name of the dog in the old film

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dam_Busters_(film)#Censorship

People were actually reporting it? FFS!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I report every vaguely political post now just to clog up Jay's inbox.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

8 minutes ago, The Big Man said:

I report every vaguely political post now just to clog up Jay's inbox.

 

 

[blondheim 1,157]

13 hours ago, Jay said:

You guys can stop reporting Richard's post, it was the name of the dog in the old film

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dam_Busters_(film)#Censorship

 

Politely, what bothered me was the tone of "I can't believe they'd do that, what an over-reaction." But why do you think the black dog was called that name? There is no other interpretation of that word. It only means what it means.

 

I know I don't want to see it and I imagine a black person reading this site wouldn't appreciate it either. I know the film score community is really white overall, but c'mon.

 

Why say it at all? It feels like the definition of a troll post. When there is policing of other language on here, even slightly rude comments to other posters, like name-calling. I just find it odd that you would come to the defense of this post.

 

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Educational context!

[Jay 37,355]

On 2/9/2021 at 12:26 AM, blondheim said:

Politely, what bothered me was the tone of "I can't believe they'd do that, what an over-reaction."

 

The administrative staff of this forum doesn't have to take any action when one user doesn't like the "tone" of another user's post.  That's between you and him, not something that needs to be moderated (unless personal insults start flying back and forth)

 

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But why do you think the black dog was called that name? There is no other interpretation of that word. It only means what it means.

 

I know I don't want to see it and I imagine a black person reading this site wouldn't appreciate it either. I know the film score community is really white overall, but c'mon.

 

Why say it at all? It feels like the definition of a troll post.

 

His was expressing his opinion on what he would like to be kept and not changed from the original to a potential remake.  You are completely welcome to debate back and forth with him about his opinion - all debate is welcome here!

 

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When there is policing of other language on here, even slightly rude comments to other posters, like name-calling. I just find it odd that you would come to the defense of this post.

 

I mean, if one user called another user the n-word, that'd be something that the moderators would step in about.  The context in which he used the word - a real life dog and also a character in a real film - is not something that needs to be moderated or broke any board rules.

 

And I don't see me or anyone else defending his opinion, I merely pointed out a fact for those who might not know what was being talked about.  None of the reports for his posts actually contained a comment by the user actually stating what they found to be worth reporting about it.  I can't read your mind to know why you chose to report it, I can only see that you reported it - unless you type a comment.

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

I can't read your mind

 

That's for the next IP Board update.

[Edmilson 7,439]

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's for the next IP Board update.

 

I hope not. I fear what I may encounter in the minds of some JWFanners.

[Jay 37,355]

Join the next Zoom chat to find out!

[blondheim 1,157]

16 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

The administrative staff of this forum doesn't have to take any action when one user doesn't like the "tone" of another user's post.  That's been you and him, not something that needs to be moderated

 

 

His was expressing his opinion on what he would like to be kept and not changed from the original to a potential remake.  You are completely welcome to debate back and forth with him about his opinion - all debate is welcome here!

 

 

I mean, if one user called another user the n-word, that'd be something that the moderators would step in about.  Talking about a dog in a film from 1955 is not something a moderator needs to do anything about.

 

And I don't see me or anyone else defending his opinion, I merely pointed out a fact for those who might not know what was being talked about.  None of the reports for his posts actually contained a comment by the user actually stating what they found to be worth reporting about it.  I can't read your mind to know why you chose to report it, I can only see that you reported it - unless you type a comment.

 

You're right, I should have commented on it. I'm just curious where the line is? Because if it would be inappropriate to say out loud then it is inappropriate to type out. I wonder if the poster would have made this comment in a less typically white online room. Just because it isn't directed at someone, doesn't mean reading it wouldn't hurt. Especially in the context of "they should keep the N-word in this movie." That seems fairly evident to me. I know I wouldn't think "here's a place where I could feel welcome."

 

I think it is odd that we can't degrade another forum member but we can hard-R it. And just sort of nudge people out instead.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Someone hasn't watched a Tarantino flick.

[Holko 9,526]

Context and intent matter. It seems to me that here the intent was completely irrelevantly manufacturing outrage - or outrage against an imagined future outrage.

[Bilbo 3,709]

7 minutes ago, blondheim said:

 

You're right, I should have commented on it. I'm just curious where the line is? Because if it would be inappropriate to say out loud then it is inappropriate to type out. I wonder if the poster would have made this comment in a less typically white online room. Just because it isn't directed at someone, doesn't mean reading it wouldn't hurt. Especially in the context of "they should keep the N-word in this movie." That seems fairly evident to me. I know I wouldn't think "here's a place where I could feel welcome."

 

I think it is odd that we can't degrade another forum member but we can hard-R it. And just sort of nudge people out instead.

I have no problem with them changing the name because it’s only going to cause controversy and it’s a small detail which isn’t necessary to the story or film. 
 

But the dog was a real dog and that was the real dog’s real name. It isn’t correct in 2021 but that’s the way things were in 1943 when the dog was alive. Should we  really alter portrayals of past events and attitudes? Guy Gibson called his dog what he called his dog. 
 

But anyway, yeah, I don’t care what they call the dog I just want to see PJ remake the film because I think it would be amazing with modern technology, more details about the event are known than when the film was made in 1955, and it’s just a thrilling and enjoyable story. 

[Jay 37,355]

I mean I would never type it out personally but I don't see what board rules Richard broke in this particular instance

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Naming your dog that would certainly have been considered distasteful by a lot of people in the 1940s, by that point (not so long ago really) it was understood to be a slur, not a neutral term.  Obviously not as completely inexcusable and verboten as it later (rightly) has become, but I think it would have marked someone as being a bit rougher in character back then, or at best just ignorant.

 

I'm not saying it makes his wartime actions unworthy of dramatization by any means, but it can't be included in a telling today unless you're trying to draw attention to ethnic attitudes of the time.  That's just the way it is and changing the name doesn't fit any definition of "political correctness gone mad" in my book.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

A Walton Goggins character would name his dog that these days.

[mstrox 6,651]

Imagine if Henry Jones named his dog that in the 1910s.  What kind of world would we live in?

[blondheim 1,157]

If no one can see how this would possibly deter a person of color from feeling welcome at this site, then I don't know what else to say. We can argue the merits of that word as a name? Again, I highly doubt the poster would have said this to a forum that he knew wasn't predominately white.

 

I didn't report it on a whim. I read it to a few friends of mine, one of which was a person of color. They felt the same way so I did not expect this reaction.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What's a "person of colour"?

[Bespin 8,481]

I think the new politically correct term is "racialized person". It's equally horrible according to me.

 

Here, some people name their cat or dog, Sissy.

 

Are you going to report me for this? 🤔

[mstrox 6,651]

Seeing that word pop up certainly made me think twice about visiting this forum from my work computer!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I just find it really strange and weird how people are so horrified by antiquated racial slurs, which are used so casually by people within those communities anyway... yet we persist in making up new segregatory phrases, only with more syllables and feel warmer and fuzzier. Whatever happened to "colour blindness" or "content of character? Or did rags like The Atlantic and The New Yorker say those aren't valid anymore because they neuter their grounds to whinge about injustices?

[Jay 37,355]

The ironic thing is that no one really cared about Richard's post and thread had completely moved on to other topics, but the one who kept the discussion going about it is the one person who didn't even want it to happen. It'd be old news no one would have thought about since Monday if you hadn't brought it back up

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

JWFan is Predominantly White?

[Jay 37,355]

I'd assume so. Film score fandom in general is

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Blondeheim just seems to lurk on these forums waiting for a reason to be outraged

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

28 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'd assume so. Film score fandom in general is

 

We need a scientific survey. Where's Josh?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Our biggest Black JWFan sadly died in a helicopter crash.

[blondheim 1,157]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

The ironic thing is that no one really cared about Richard's post and thread had completely moved on to other topics, but the one who kept the discussion going about it is the one person who didn't even want it to happen. It'd be old news no one would have thought about since Monday if you hadn't brought it back up

 

I addressed it because I thought your initial response had a tone of "enough already". I didn't think that should go unremarked and it didn't seem like anyone else was going to address it. It going unremarked like it's just another day here at JWFan was my reason.

 

I normally agree with you but not on this.

[Jay 37,355]

My post was letting people know they don't need to keep using the report feature, I said nothing about letting people talk about whatever they want to talk about. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

Can we talk about politics and religion now?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I've reported Blondheim's posts for political speech.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,524]

I've reported Jurassic Shark for not wanting to talk about sex!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Thekth

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

2 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I've reported Jurassic Shark for not wanting to talk about sex!

 

I only said I didn't want to do it with you!

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,524]

Now I'm reporting you for being Fartphobic!

[blondheim 1,157]

49 minutes ago, Jay said:

My post was letting people know they don't need to keep using the report feature, I said nothing about letting people talk about whatever they want to talk about. 

 

I didn't say you did. You made it very clear we can talk about it. That you will allow a troll post with a racial slur in it to hide under the guise of "well it's the dog's name" is crazy to me. You are making the assumption that if it offended a person of color enough to leave, you would get to hear about it at all. This imagined outrage I am trying to prevent will only happen if someone stays long enough and feels welcome enough to do it. I was offended so it's my responsibility too.

 

I am never going to stop advocating for these spaces to be less white, less male, less straight. I don't care if that is annoying to anyone. Ask someone who's black what they think, I stand by my answer. This only flies because the room is white.

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

It's not a crime to be a white, male straight.

[Edmilson 7,439]

Well, I guess I'm latino and Chen is from the Middle East. Not sure about the other members, though there's a lot of Europeans here.

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

Chen sounds Chinese.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,524]

39 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's not a crime to be a white, male straight.

Reported!

 

 

27 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Chen sounds Chinese.

Reported!

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

You @Naïve Old Fart!

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Chen sounds Chinese.

 

Chen is from Israel I believe. 

1 hour ago, blondheim said:

I am never going to stop advocating for these spaces to be less white, less male, less straight.

There’s a fair few gay members here. 

[Jay 37,355]

On 2/10/2021 at 11:23 AM, blondheim said:

That you will allow a troll post with a racial slur in it to hide under the guise of "well it's the dog's name" is crazy to me.

 

Can you explain why you think his post is a "troll post" and not a post saying "I would like this character to have his same name in a remake of this film" ?

 

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You are making the assumption that if it offended a person of color enough to leave, you would get to hear about it at all.

 

I don't know what this sentence means.  Can you explain it better?

 

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This imagined outrage I am trying to prevent will only happen if someone stays long enough and feels welcome enough to do it. I was offended so it's my responsibility too.

 

It sounds like you're more offended that the 1950s filmmakers chose to keep the dog's real name in their film, than you are that Richard mentioned the name of the real life dog / character when expressing his opinion about a potential remake.  If you are suggesting he should have been allowed to express his opinion, but that he should not have typed out the dog's full name when doing so, then that hasn't been made clear to me at all until this point.

 

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I am never going to stop advocating for these spaces to be less white, less male, less straight. I don't care if that is annoying to anyone.

 

I don't know if there is any person here who would prefer the membership of this place to only be white straight males?  If you think that, I don't know why you think that, or what Richard's opinion on this film has anything to do with the site as a whole.

 

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Ask someone who's black what they think, I stand by my answer. This only flies because the room is white.

 

I'm sure they'd be incredibly annoyed at Richard's post, and like I already said I certainly would never type that word out in any context myself, but I can't see why they'd be mad at the administrative staff of this site instead of being mad only at Richard.  Because the moderators didn't see a need to edit his post doesn't mean they agree with his opinion or his word choice. 

 

This is generally a forum where posts are almost never edited.  For the most part, people police each other here:  If people make posts that are ignorant, thoughtless, toxic, etc, other people are happy to call them out on their shit and not let it go unnoticed.  Others may choose to use the "ignore" feature to no longer see posts from certain users.  The moderating stuff doesn't have to start going around and editing anything anyone finds offensive.  We don't have time on our hands to do that, and it's a slippery slope anyway since everyone has a different opinion on what's offensive.