Popular Post Edmilson 7,432 Posted February 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2021 Quote Martin Scorsese rails against the movie business in a powerful new essay on Federico Fellini, published in the March 2021 edition of Harper’s Magazine (read the full essay here). Titled “Il Maestro,” the essay finds Scorsese waxing poetic on Fellini’s filmography and using the Italian filmmaking icon to argue why the magic of cinema is now being lost among the onslaught of content being released by film studios and streaming companies. Scorsese acknowledges streamers benefit his career (without Netflix there would be no “The Irishman,” and without Apple there would be no “Killers of the Flower Moon” on the way), but writes “the art of cinema is being systematically devalued, sidelined, demeaned, and reduced to its lowest common denominator” by conceptualization of films as “content.” “As recently as 15 years ago, the term ‘content’ was heard only when people were discussing the cinema on a serious level, and it was contrasted with and measured against ‘form,'” Scorsese writes. “Then, gradually, it was used more and more by the people who took over media companies, most of whom knew nothing about the history of the art form, or even cared enough to think that they should. ‘Content’ became a business term for all moving images: a David Lean movie, a cat video, a Super Bowl commercial, a superhero sequel, a series episode. It was linked, of course, not to the theatrical experience but to home viewing, on the streaming platforms that have come to overtake the moviegoing experience, just as Amazon overtook physical stores.” The packaging of all moving images as equitable content “has created a situation in which everything is presented to the viewer on a level playing field, which sounds democratic but isn’t,” Scorsese continues. “If further viewing is ‘suggested’ by algorithms based on what you’ve already seen, and the suggestions are based only on subject matter or genre, then what does that do to the art of cinema?” Scorsese adds, “Curating isn’t undemocratic or ‘elitist,’ a term that is now used so often that it’s become meaningless. It’s an act of generosity — you’re sharing what you love and what has inspired you. (The best streaming platforms, such as the Criterion Channel and MUBI and traditional outlets such as TCM, are based on curating — they’re actually curated.) Algorithms, by definition, are based on calculations that treat the viewer as a consumer and nothing else.” Later in the essay, Scorsese writes “the cinema and the importance it holds in our culture” has changed and that cinephiles “can’t depend on the movie business, such as it is, to take care of cinema.” “In the movie business, which is now the mass visual entertainment business, the emphasis is always on the word ‘business,’ and value is always determined by the amount of money to be made from any given property — in that sense, everything from ‘Sunrise’ to ‘La Strada’ to ‘2001’ is now pretty much wrung dry and ready for the ‘Art Film’ swim lane on a streaming platform,” the essay reads. “Those of us who know the cinema and its history have to share our love and our knowledge with as many people as possible. And we have to make it crystal clear to the current legal owners of these films that they amount to much, much more than mere property to be exploited and then locked away. They are among the greatest treasures of our culture, and they must be treated accordingly.” Scorsese concludes: “I suppose we also have to refine our notions of what cinema is and what it isn’t. Federico Fellini is a good place to start. You can say a lot of things about Fellini’s movies, but here’s one thing that is incontestable: they are cinema. Fellini’s work goes a long way toward defining the art form.” https://www.indiewire.com/2021/02/martin-scorsese-streaming-lack-of-curation-1234617241/ Next up for Scorsese is “Killers of the Flower Moon,” starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, and Lily Gladstone. The Apple-Paramount backed movie goes into production in the first half of 2021. Head over to Harper Magazine’s website to read Scorsese’s new essay in its entirety. https://harpers.org/archive/2021/03/il-maestro-federico-fellini-martin-scorsese/ Ricard, bored, DarthDementous and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 He's absolutely right. "Content" is a foul word. And it's not just cinema that's being affected by it. bored and Nick1Ø66 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Explicit Content Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Yeah I hate the word content as well when used describe works of creativity. Might as well drop the euphemism and just call them 'grist'. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I think I might have filed a complaint about the word "content" in the Pet Peeves thread a while back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 42 minutes ago, The Big Man said: I think I might have filed a complaint about the word "content" in the Pet Peeves thread a while back... Marty? Is it really you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I came here in a time machine that you invented! Ricard and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Who's President of the United States in 1985? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Jerry Lewis. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomoog the Ecstatic 314 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I liked the deepfake video of young Robert De Niro for Irishman. Lucas and Scorsese should team up and make a new film using deepfakes. Oh wait I'm thinking of new deepfake Lucas. Is he any good at directing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Go Marty! I'm in total agreement with him, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Have you ever been to the Museum of Modern Art in New York? They have great content! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I agree with him. As always there's some great content in what Scorsese had to say. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Ridley Scott said something to a similar effect a few years ago: there are just too many films being made each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,711 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 The problem is that directors like Scorcese, Scott & Nolan (like them or not), and a handful of others, are a dying breed, and I think we're at the tail end of the era of the director as visionary/artist. Hollywood isn't going to allow it to get to a point where directors have that much power again, and Disney is leading the way on this. There's a reason most of the Marvel movies look like they could have been directed by the same person. And this is doubly true for heavy SFX movies, which are mostly crafted in post. The present & future is suits at media and tech companies deciding what kind of "content" to create based on market research and hiring competent directors with the requisite skills who are happy to have the gig to put it on screen. Basically, what TV directors have always done. Then just hope that we're all more worried about who has what "property" and what the box office is on our favourite "franchise" (appropriately a word traditionally associated with McDonalds) to stop and realise most of the content sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I don’t really get it. The word “content” is annoying as used, agreed but is the grumble that one word has (always had) more than one meaning? Content vs. form was always a separate technical idea from the table of contents of a book, which I’d argue is more akin to what a streaming service’s “content” is - the stuff that’s inside. Is this a Spielbergian anti-streaming thng even in spite of The Irishman? Is he arguing that bad movies weren’t churned out decades ago, but now they exist thanks to streaming services? Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 He's saying there's more of them now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I’m curious if that’s actually the case. Before, tons of low-budget and no-budget indies were made and released to small market festivals or not making it in to those, and then disappearing forever or possibly getting a direct to video or budget DVD release. Streaming services, in their push for “content,” just snatch those up now. Another metric that would be virtually impossible to figure out - if the number of movies has increased, has the needle moved at all on the percentage of those movies that are good vs. bad? Like, sure, there are a ton of bad movies on Netflix, but are there also enough decent ones that even it out to the hit/miss ratio we’d see in a pre-streaming multiplex? I think it would be extremely generous to say that 30% of movies were good at that time, especially by Scorsese’s Fellini curation metric. Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 No he's saying the movies that are good are being devalued by just being shat out alongside all the other shit dumped on streaming services, often with little ceremony. Were there bad and cynical movies always made? Obviously, but in the age of the movie theater choices were more limited so good movies had more of a chance to be seen (and with an audience!). He's made a deal with the devil because Netflix will let him make the movies he wants, but he's saying great movies were meant to be seen in a cinema and I agree with him. KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: he's saying great movies weren't meant to be seen in a cinema and I agree with him. You mean "WERE meant to be seen in a cinema", right? Not sure I entirely agree. A great movie is a great movie regardless of viewing conditions... TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Chen G. said: You mean "WERE meant to be seen in a cinema", right? Yes sorry that was a typo. Fixed! 18 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Not sure I entirely agree. A great movie is a great movie regardless of viewing conditions... I didn't say they were only great when seen in a cinema! Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Not sure I entirely agree. A great movie is a great movie regardless of viewing conditions... It depends on the aspect ratio! Smeltington and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: It depends on the aspect ratio! And we're back again with this 4:3 aspect ration war.... bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 We can do better than that. 1:1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2021 Its not a war. Its a Zack Snyder superhero film. Its gonna suck whether its shot in 4:3, 2:1 or 2.78:1. Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Edmilson, TSMefford and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2021 It's best experienced in 0:1. Smeltington, Chen G., Raiders of the SoundtrArk and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,711 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 32 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Not sure I entirely agree. A great movie is a great movie regardless of viewing conditions... Well, yes. You can watch Casablanca on your mobile and recognize its greatness. And entire generation grew up with and fell in love with Star Wars in 4:3 on VHS. At the same time, the best movie theatre (or home theatre) in the world isn't going to make a bad movie good. So yeah, a film's greatness is independent of the conditions in which its viewed. That said, viewing conditions can certainly help bring out that greatness, and add to appreciating it. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I proudly saw The Irishman in a movie theater at 10am on a weekday with 8 other weirdos! bruce marshall, Bayesian and Smeltington 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I think every movie is better viewed in a theater - prestige movies, dumb comedies, horror movies, etc. I think the chains will make it through the pandemic, but hopefully we don't lose too many small or indie theaters. I appreciate Scorsese not liking that quality movies get lost in the streaming mush - but they DID promote the hell out of the Irishman, much more than they promote the small dumb stuff (and they do the same with other movies that are award contenders or crowd pleasers, much more than just pushing it to the top of their app's load screen). So I don't think it got lost in the shuffle, even though a large portion of Netflix's younger users might have shrugged it off as not for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 We've now arrived at the point where people who watch movies are called "users"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, Jay said: We've now arrived at the point where people who watch movies are called "users"! and cinephiles "super heavy users"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Not sure if that's a joke or not, but in case it isn't, people who use a specific platform are users! Netflix users watch movies and TV, Spotify users listen to music, pHbboard users post on message boards. It doesn't mean they are not also watchers, listeners, and posters! Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Disco Stu said: I proudly saw The Irishman in a movie theater at 10am on a weekday with 8 other weirdos! Lucky you. I still haven't seen it. There were no theatrical release here so to me it's like if the movie had never get a release. Waiting for the dvd to exist... and that's long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 That's one thing I hate about streaming services. They keep their movies as proprietary streaming "content." That means for the most part, there is no home video release. No opportunity to watch it when you're not plugged in, and no opportunity to watch it in the higher quality that a disc would provide. Otherwise, I love them. We have no TV/cable service at all. We subscribe to every streaming service that interests us and it's still an infinitesimal amount of money per month vs. the cost of what any monthly cable bill we've ever had. If a show or movie that we want to watch isn't on there, which is very few, we will buy or rent it and still fall well below that cable bill threshold. Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Physical media is dying bruce marshall and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said: Lucky you. I still haven't seen it. There were no theatrical release here so to me it's like if the movie had never get a release. Waiting for the dvd to exist... and that's long... It got a Criterion release this past November!!!! https://www.criterion.com/films/30553-the-irishman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jay said: Physical media is dying We all are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jay said: Physical media is dying Not in my house bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 37 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: It got a Criterion release this past November!!!! https://www.criterion.com/films/30553-the-irishman Damn it looks great! Love the artwork here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I like how Netflix downloads the movie in real time as you're watching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 That's called streaming - people are saying it's the wave of the future. I doubt it'll catch on, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 "Content" is a word used to continue to push the idea that if there's a lot of something, it must be good. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 This discussion reminds me of the @mstrox's content maker / job creator joke on Twitter. 58 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: It got a Criterion release this past November!!!! https://www.criterion.com/films/30553-the-irishman Painstakingly restored from the original negatives. mstrox and bruce marshall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Where’s my thread whenever I whine about something?! Ex-CUSE me for not being as important as this Scorsese dope! Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Blues 65 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I love content creators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 We used to call them filmmakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Put us together, we're like the modern day DeNiro and Pacino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Matt Damon thinks 'superheroes and streaming' are ruining movies! https://screenrant.com/matt-damon-movies-streaming-superheroes-bad/ Streaming: Quote - The way they (kids) watch is different to how we did. How can you watch a movie if you are texting? As someone who makes these things I can’t say I love that. Movies as we know them aren’t going to be a thing in our kids’ lives. And that makes me sad. Superheroes: Quote - It made the most profitable movie, one that could travel around the world. And if you want a movie to travel and play big you want the least amount of cultural confusion. So there is the rise of the superhero movie, right? They’re easy for everyone. You know who the good person is, who the bad person is. They fight three times and the good person wins twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Consumers gonna consume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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