Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted March 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 6, 2021 I initially thought it was my complete disappointment with the film that impacted my appreciation of this score. I’d come back to the ost hoping to finally connect with it. It’s a friggin’ John Williams Indiana Jones score for crying out loud! But to me both the OST and the Recording Sessions lacked the terrific momentum that the other three releases had (99% the fault of the film I believe!) Half the ost release seemed to focus on skull theme. Which is a great theme. But I needed other material to balance it out. Imagine if the Raiders score was 45% the ark theme. Terrific theme. But it would lose its impact after a while. And the RS goes for long stretches before anything grabs my attention. But I really want to love this score. So here’s my ideal 79min album/ playlist I’ve created from editing tracks together from the recording sessions. Nevada, 1957 (“Elvis and the Prairie Dog”+”Nevada,1957+ “Irina Spalko”) Really needed this on the OST. Not a knock-out cue set by any means. But musically it brings us into the story and rolls out some of the new thematic material for this adventure The Warehouse and Indy’s Great Escape ( “Revisiting the Ark (Revised)”+”Gun Powder”+”Indy’s Great Escape”+”The Rocket Sled”+”Indy Versus the Russian”+”Prairie Dog and Nuclear Cloud “) Edited these as a giant 8 minute set piece. Another odd omission from the ost. Skipped on some of the start/stop bits (“unpacking” and “Indy Fights back) “Nuclear Cloud” makes for a great end cap on the piece. Rough Couple of Years (“Resignation”+”Remembering Henry Sr. & Leaving Campus”) Some of my favorite moments on the prior Jones scores were the moments before the call to adventure. “Fathers Study”or “Thought for Marion” etc. Nice little moments to breathe before the plot begins. The Legend of Akator (“Legend of Akator”+”Knife to a gunfight”) I like this as the first tease of the Skull theme. Similar to “Washington Men” in its story placement musically speaking. And a great build to the next set piece. Whirl through Academe (Same as OST) Fun Breezy Indy action ala “Basket Games” or the train parts of “Indys First Adventure” A Trip to Peru (Same as Recording Session) Off we go onto the main quest! Grave Robbers (“The Chauchilla Graveyard”+”Grave Robbers”-RS version) Love the fun spooky atmosphere of Chauchilla Graveyard before the frantic percussion kicks in. Call of the Crystal (Same as OST/RS) Should be the equivalent of “Map Room:Dawn” as we realize musically what powers our characters are meddling with. Hello Jonesy (“Russians Reappear 2”+”Hello Jonesy”) Nice little map moment as our hero’s are captured by the baddie. Ideograms (“Ideograms”+ “Sleeping River Map”) A little moment of sadness before this “forming a plan of escape” type music kicks in and builds Quick Step Into Quicksand (Same as OST/RS) Another fun “Basket Games” type cue. Works great in the scene. Marion’s Theme (From Spielberg/Williams Collaboration v3.) Nice new arrangement works terrifically here. To me as a listener, this creates a moment of reflection and brings in emotional stakes for Indy that were completely absent from the film itself) The Waterfall (Same as RS. ) While not Chronologically accurate, I like this as a kind of teaser/warm-up for the action that’s coming with “Jungle Chase” and “Ants!” For some reason placing it after those two it feels a bit redundant to me. Not sure why. The Jungle Chase (The Jungle Chase Begins +Irina’s Great Blade+Ugh Vines) What’s there to say? Cracking 10 minute action piece worthy of Dr Jones. Ants! (Same as OST&RS) Temple Ruins (Temple Ruins+Ugha Warriors) Nice reminder of the skull theme since we haven’t heard it for a while on this playlist. Followed by fun frantic jungle percussion. The City of Gold (Same as RS) Love the “War of the Worlds” quote and giant build in this one as our hero’s enter the final stage of their quest Spalko’s Gift and The Secret Revealed (Spalko’s Gift+The Secret Revealed) Fantastic eerie build to the culmination of the Crystal Skull theme as the villains meet their demise. The albums equivalent of “The Miracle of the Ark” The Departure (Same as OST/RS) The final moments of this cue *chefs kiss* Treasures of Knowledge and Finale ( Knowledge Was Their Treasure+ The Wedding+ Finale*) Sad the quote of Henry Sr theme never made it on the OST. Having it here is a nice bookended to the “resignation” track. And of course Williams leads us out with great suite of all the films prior themes. So I didn’t include any of the concert versions in this playlist except for the skull theme. Finally I edited in the original end of the Raiders March to replace the one where Williams weaves the Mutt Williams theme in and out. It’s clever. But if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it;) Sorry for the essay. I’m enjoying a lazy Saturday and a rediscovery of JWs (most likely) final Indy score. ragoz350, Muad'Dib, crumbs and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,472 Posted March 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 6, 2021 I love the score (and I always loved the movie, for me, that's Indiana Jones; something not really serious, but not a cartoon, something always between reality and fiction), but I appreciate the OST in only one way: a simili chronological order. So I hope someday it will be expanded! WampaRat, karelm and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 That's a cool program, @WampaRat! I think the OST doesn't do the score any favors, but you've removed some fluff and added some of the missing goodies. I might try putting together something in this vein too. I think this score as a whole suffers from the inescapable comparisons to its predecessors and to Williams's other work, but it does do a respectable job of supporting the film with a good mixture of old and new. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,367 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 The movie is shite, but the score is quite good, probably better than most 2008 Hollywood scores. And I do think that a playlist created from the Recording Sessions for the listening experience is the ideal way of listening the score, so yeah, I'll try your playlist one of these days. WampaRat and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 . Not Mr. Big and WampaRat 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 Thanks everyone. Yeah I really tried to pick the best cues big or small that helped to tell the best musical narrative. Large set pieces, nice reflective moments, moments of dread, humor, romance. All the things that make the previous scores soar and take you on a journey. This score has it all too. It just not all in the OST or you have to pick through the Recording Sessions to get there. It was a labor of love. And I’m glad my feelings have changed toward this one. Edmilson and Bespin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,314 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Movie is great. Score , as released, is a bore WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,901 Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2021 I was lucky enough to do some proof reading of the orchestration of the score. So saw it before I realized the film was meh. The score is amazing and I was working with titans. Conrad Pope's orchestrations and comparing it to JW's detailed sketches. Incredible detail and precision from both of them that left my mouth watering of what the film would actually be about. The score was great and the film just didn't reach up to the standards of its predecessors but one must realize Lucas/Spielberg/Ford set very high expectations. It's better than almost any other action/adventure film but doesn't achieve the level expected given the cumulative talent. IJ-score5.bmp Brando, Fabulin, Holko and 9 others 7 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 That is incredible @karelm! What an awesome experience. Once in a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,630 Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2021 I have loved the score from the beginning (and disliked the film from the beginning). The OST drags a bit in the middle, but the new themes are fantastic. Some of the early criticisms still irks me, but it is probably just how I evaluate JW music. Specifically, those who did not like Mutt's themes (adventures and the inverted Indy theme for vine-swinging) because they either did not like the character and/or did not think the theme fit the character. Who cares? They are excellent musical pieces. Moreover, Mutt was bland, annoying, and borderline stupid. I don't want to hear the theme that captures that perfectly. That being said, Irina's theme was pitch perfect musically and in terms of character capture. bruce marshall, Edmilson, Yavar Moradi and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,314 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 The music for the chase thru the college/ Adventures of Mutt is is a retread of music from other films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................ bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,314 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 IF they do expand this .... They should do what they did with the original expanded E.T. Drop the (boring) concert arrangements and rerelease it as A SINGLE DISC. We really don't need more than SEVENTY.NINE MINUTES. Chances of my advice being taken seriously? Zero.zero😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Irina’s theme is worth the price of admission IMO. If nothing else, JW knows how to write a good villain theme, even if the character as portrayed isn’t worth the paper the score is written on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,662 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I revisited this recently as well, and I find that the overarching problem with the OST is that JW's action scoring and suspense/dramatic scoring are at opposite spectrums of interest. There are other JW albums where the only flaw is arguably the rearrangement, and omission of highlights - TLW for example. The problem with KotCS is that while the action material is generally memorable and exciting (Jungle Chase, and the other chase sequences), the more mysterious material... just isn't, for me. Return, Orellana's Cradle, Oxley's Dilemma, Secret Doors and Scorpions, Grave Robbers, The Snake Pit... I hate to burst the general bubble of positivity on this forum, but this is just such dull scoring. Also, the Skull theme and Irina's theme, I'm just not a fan of. Hence I don't think this is a score which can be improved by a complete presentation; rather by an alternative presentation which focuses on the more upbeat material. Tom Guernsey and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,287 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I think that prolonged section of dull, middling suspense music (from the trip to Peru through until the jungle chase) would be even worse in C&C form. I agree the best version of the score is probably an alternate OST which whittles down all the highlights. The existing one is a terrible representation of the score. Edmilson and bruce marshall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,662 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 My revised 'alternate' album is 44 minutes, of which around 2/3 is on the album. I think the main issue is having most of the opening (warehouse and chase), the campus bits, all of the Jungle Chase material, and a few of the more thematic quieter moments, generally those using the 'father' theme. This also involves dropping pretty much all of the Crystal Skull material itself. It's a perfectly serviceable theme that many here will enjoy - I just don't 'get' it personally. I'm not a complete negative nancy on the album - I've always liked Journey to Akator and especially that source cue in the second half. The Raiders March also gives us a nice, modern, JW-conducted interpretation of the concert piece. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 @Richard Penna yeah, if you ever get the chance, this playlist definitely focuses more on the upbeat parts of the score and roles out the skull theme much more sparingly. I think it works more effectively that way. Huge chunks of suspense material are cut out. But overall its just a much more quieter, less punchy score than the other three. But I find this presentation brings it up a notch or two on the enjoyment scale for me. I know it’s beating a dead horse, but a really wonder what the thought process was in selecting the tracks on the ost. Perhaps Williams thought “secret doors and scorpions” would engage the listener more than “warehouse escape”? Lol bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,662 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I don't think there's any mystery in JW's selection at all - he wants to provide a balance of suspense material and action material, and doesn't find the former boring to him at all. It also won't simply be a case of finding one cue more engaging than the other - if he builds up the album he wants, and creates a flow, then he'll leave cues off if they feel unneeded at that point in the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 11 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 The movie is pretty lousy, but the score is quite good. One of those that I don't listen to often, but when I do I wonder why I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Richard Penna said: I don't think there's any mystery in JW's selection at all - he wants to provide a balance of suspense material and action material, and doesn't find the former boring to him at all. It also won't simply be a case of finding one cue more engaging than the other - if he builds up the album he wants, and creates a flow, then he'll leave cues off if they feel unneeded at that point in the album. Exactly. It's an approach that can totally work when the quieter underscore is still reasonably interesting; unfortunately, there's something about a lot of these moments in KOTCS that just makes me want to yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 It's with a perfect objectivity that I'm going to say that KOTCS is the best 2008 score. The recording sessions are a blessing for me, I'll be happy with any expansion and in heaven if it's contained more than the sessions. I'm not a hardcore Indiana Jones' score fan, promised. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,367 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said: It's with a perfect objectivity that I'm going to say that KOTCS is the best 2008 score. The recording sessions are a blessing for me, I'll be happy with any expansion and in heaven if it's contained more than the sessions. I'm not a hardcore Indiana Jones' score fan, promised. Yeah, but 2008 was a pretty lousy year for Hollywood scores. I mean, Powell's Hancock and Kung Fu Panda were okay, Zimmer's TDK works well in the movie and I like HGW's Prince Caspian, but other than that... The year was so bad for scores that even a middling Williams score like KOTCS is one of the best things that year. Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Agree although I wouldn't say of KOTCS that it's a middling Williams score, although it's because I'm not really objective about Star Wars, Indiana Jones or JP scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,008 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 You crazy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: You crazy man. Jurassic Shark and WampaRat 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,249 Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2021 Indiana Jones 4's score is really good! The original soundtrack album created from it is not very good! I do think a different selection of music to include there would have let to this score getting its fair due right away, instead of 4 years later when the sessions leaked, which even then only a handful of dedicated fans have heard, and the general film-score public had already long made up their minds about it. Hopefully an official expansion one day will cause people to re-evaluate it Raiders of the SoundtrArk, BrotherSound, Henry Sítrónu and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,008 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Well, many people have heard the "complete" score in the film, if they were brave enough to watch it until the end. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,249 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 A lot of the music in the film itself is buried under dialogue and sound effects Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,472 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, Jay said: A lot of the music in the film itself is buried under dialogue and sound effects Oh, mercy, you sound like John Williams! bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,008 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Sound effects? Squeaky chairs and page turns? WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Love this score! Irina's theme and the Russians theme are highlights for me. The end credits cue is delightful from beggining to end. Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I don't fancy the concert suites… the OST album is okish. But I listened to the recording sessions the other day and the action scenes are terrific, better than the ST, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,314 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I'm pleasantly surprised to read so many comments favoring a more listenable presentation over a c and c One person created a FORTY FOUR MINUTE playlist! That's the spirit#😊😊😁☺😊 WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,472 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 A new identity? We missed you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I don;t need to reevaluate it The OST was disappointing missing so many highlights The Recording Sessions reveal it's and excellent score on par with Last Crusade at least bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, King Mark said: The Recording Sessions reveal it's and excellent score on par with Last Crusade at least Unlucky Bastard, bruce marshall, Bellosh and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,314 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 7 hours ago, Datameister said: Exactly. It's an approach that can totally work when the quieter underscore is still reasonably interesting; unfortunately, there's something about a lot of these moments in KOTCS that just makes me want to yawn. MR has the same issues. Some claim the expansion resolves this. I can't comment definitively as I only have the ost But , the iso score put up by Holko didn't sway me. 3 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said: I don't fancy the concert suites… the OST album is okish. But I listened to the recording sessions the other day and the action scenes are terrific, better than the ST, IMHO. Yeah. Leaving off the warehouse\ chase cue is totally baffling. 13 minutes ago, King Mark said: I don;t need to reevaluate it The OST was disappointing missing so many highlights The Recording Sessions reveal it's and excellent score on par with Last Crusade at least 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,472 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I love the fact that, like we can expect, eastern music is still associated with bad guys. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,368 Posted March 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2021 Score: I like it a lot. But still doesn't come near the original trilogy. Film: I also like it a lot. Not nearly as bad as '2008 internet' really made it out to be. Although the third act really becomes a let down with all the characters. Nobody cares about Oxley or Mac's triple spy stuff. Shame, since the actors of both roles are so good. Mutt wasn't that bad. The Marion and Indy stuff bordered on cringe with their family problems but was believable to an extent. It's a really decent Indy movie up until the jungle, basically. I can't defend the third act. I still love the finale (Indy grabbing the hat from Mutt at the wedding). I thought it was a perfect way to end the movie (and at the time, character). bruce marshall, oierem, Holko and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,314 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Younguns don't like it cuz they don't get the 1950' s background. Mutts entrance is classic - IF you get.the reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,367 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 The real question is: which is the better score, Crystal Skull or Tintin? WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,368 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, Edmilson said: The real question is: which is the better score, Crystal Skull or Tintin? KOTCS Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,472 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 20 minutes ago, Edmilson said: The real question is: which is the better score, Crystal Skull or Tintin? NOOOOOO!!! NOOOOOOO!!! STOP THIS! YOU CAN'T.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Eesh, that one's tough for me. KotCS is more conventional Williams overall, but Tintin has its fair share of been-there-heard-that moments too. I do think Crystal Skull's new themes are stronger than those in Tintin. For me it mostly depends on what mood I'm in. But I suppose I find myself in a KotCS mood more often than a Tintin mood, so there's that? In terms of the films themselves, Tintin is the clear winner for me. I actually do get a kick out of KotCS, but it's got a number of problems. Tintin has very few. GerateWohl and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of Algebra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,008 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 7 hours ago, bruce marshall said: Mutts entrance is classic - IF you get.the reference How did he enter now again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,314 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 On a motorcycle like Marlon Brando in THE WILD ONE, dummy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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