Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Oh. I've suppressed most of the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said: Oh. I've suppressed most of the movie. I don't begrudge foreigners not getting the many allusions to 1950s America. It's what made most of the fillm so enjoyable to ME. We all agree the middle part in South America was dullsville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I find most of the film to be filled with surprisingly bad choices. Spielberg did the same thing for the The Lost World, but that he would repeat the misstep to such an enormous degree with Indy still surprises me. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,221 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I didn't massively enjoy the film... it was hard to shake off the feeling that they should have left it as a trilogy, which had a satisfying conclusion; it was never a story that needed to "end" as such, but them all riding off into the sunset in Last Crusade seemed perfect. I agree with the comments on the Crystal Skull score that the suspense parts aren't massively exciting, they don't have the biblical resonance of Raiders or Last Crusade or the creepy crawliness of Temple of Doom and it feels like it just kinda meanders. However, the action music is fine and feels much more of a throwback to late 80s/90s Williams than his other action music of the period, with more in the way of thematic hooks; and I really enjoy Mutt's Theme, the concert version is three minutes of joy. The recording sessions are great, but perhaps have a few longeurs, but @WampaRat's alternate album presentation is really great, thanks for sharing! WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Bespin said: NOOOOOO!!! NOOOOOOO!!! STOP THIS! YOU CAN'T.... I forgot just how damn ugly the colour grade on that film was. Apparently they've remastered the film from scratch for the upcoming UHD, so hopefully Kaminski ditched that ugly green/orange tint. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,397 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 It won't help the fake lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 True. Colour grading can only fix so much, but at least the film might look filmic instead of the heavily processed slop it currently resembles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,445 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I listened to this score, the other day. It's still shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2021 Well you're proving the whole point of this thread right there with that post. You didn't listen to the score, you listend the poorly made OST album of the score, which has informed your opinion that it's a "shite" score for the past 13 years. I continue to think that if a different presentation had been available then and/or becomes available in the future people's opinions might have been different and/or will change BuzzLightyear, Bespin and WampaRat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 In “Indy Fights back” (at 5 sec mark) there’s a little suspense riff Williams used in Last Crusade (at 2:48) that I always thought was an odd little Easter egg he slipped in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I never thought of that as an easter egg, just a a direct and obvious quote of it It sounds cool, though I'm sure it's only there because it was on the temp track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,221 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: Well you're proving the whole point of this thread right there with that post. You didn't listen to the score, you listend the poorly made OST album of the score, which has informed your opinion that it's a "shite" score for the past 13 years. I continue to think that if a different presentation had been available then and/or becomes available in the future people's opinions might have been different and/or will change I still don't think it's a terrible representation of the score, it covers most of the major highlights, scenes and musical ideas. Certainly not as frustrating as some of Williams' other albums, but I enjoyed @WampaRat's alternative version immediately. It's still fine music and a number of times more interesting than so many scores these days. Plus I forgot how much I love the way he changes the end of the Raider's March in the end credits, inverting the theme and adding a little countermelody. Such a witty twist to round out the score. Andy and WampaRat 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,397 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: I still don't think it's a terrible representation of the score, it covers most of the major highlights, scenes and musical ideas. Certainly not as frustrating as some of Williams' other albums, That's where I stand too. 3 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Plus I forgot how much I love the way he changes the end of the Raider's March in the end credits, inverting the theme and adding a little countermelody. Such a witty twist to round out the score. Yes!! I love it! Tom Guernsey and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: I still don't think it's a terrible representation of the score, it covers most of the major highlights, scenes and musical ideas. I don't think it does, not really 3 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Certainly not as frustrating as some of Williams' other albums Which Williams' OST albums do you find more frustrating? 3 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Plus I forgot how much I love the way he changes the end of the Raider's March in the end credits, inverting the theme and adding a little countermelody. Such a witty twist to round out the score. It's great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 336 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 14 hours ago, Edmilson said: The real question is: which is the better score, Crystal Skull or Tintin? Tintin for me. Crystal Skull is very good, but Tintin is brillant Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Tintin for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,221 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 37 minutes ago, Jay said: I don't think it does, not really Which Williams' OST albums do you find more frustrating? It's great! That's fair enough. I'm not going to split hairs. As others have surmised, I expect Williams was looking for more balance and so put in some of the less interesting (to us!) suspense stuff, when a couple of other more interesting cues might have been preferred. I guess I was referring to scores such as AI where a major theme doesn't appear and the album is a bit heavily weighted towards certain of the material. Guess the same could be said for The Phantom Menace (no Qui-Gon's theme) plus his strange choice to include the Padme's Palace fanfare (or whatever you want to call it) after the opening credits rather than the actual, rather enjoyable action cue. He did the same on the other two prequels I think (although less sure on Revenge of the Sith). Lucky to have on TPM ultimate edition. Sure there's a couple of others, but can't think of them off the top of my head! It's an art not a science so guess you'll never please everyone every time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Those are the same three I'd pick as the albums he put together that are the least representative of what the entire score actually has to offer: Phantom Menace, A.I. Artificial Intelligence, and Crystal Skull. The man assembled over 100 albums of his film scores over his career, I can't expect him to get it right every time Can't wait for Crystal Skull and Phantom Menace to join AI in legal expansion land Tom Guernsey and Gurkensalat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted March 8, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2021 I think the Tintin comparisons are warranted. Particularly his use of the saxaphone(?- not sure) in some of his cues/action material in Indy 4. Almost like Williams was toying with a new action adventure sound rather than the more brassy fanfare-ic feel of the prior three films. The action scoring is much more playful and light in Crystal Skull than I think people were expecting for an Indiana Jones adventure. Like every scene was temp with “Basket games” or “Indys First Adventure” While there were some playful moments in the prior scores, the action felt more dire/urgent/brassier for lack of better descriptors. Not sure if that’s due to their context in the films. So Tintin I think is a better development of the lighter/jazzier action sound that Williams was toying with in Indy 4. Like the perfect mesh of Catch Me If You Can and Raiders. Gurkensalat, Tom Guernsey and rough cut 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Plus the film itself was more like the classic Indy trilogy than Crystal Skull was WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 6 hours ago, Jay said: Well you're proving the whole point of this thread right there with that post. You didn't listen to the score, you listend the poorly made OST album of the score, which has informed your opinion that it's a "shite" score for the past 13 years. I continue to think that if a different presentation had been available then and/or becomes available in the future people's opinions might have beern different and/or will change Do you think a two disc* version is the solution? Or, a single disc without the concert pieces? * a rhetorical question 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I am saying if an OST album released at the time of the film had the exact same length as the one that they did release, but different music was the score was chosen in place of some of the pieces that were chosen, it would have been received better by a vast majority of the people who heard it. I think if a producer gets to work on a new edition, it should be 100% complete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I knew you'd say that. Paradoxically, a complete presentation probably won't win any/many new fans. But, anything's possible!😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: a complete presentation probably won't win any/many new fans I completely disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,617 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I'd agree with Jay that a differently constructed album would make many more people fans of the score in an album context. I also think an expansion will improve opinions on some parts of the score, but I don't think it would improve the listening experience. The underscore material just isn't strong enough for that. While most of the time we feel that Williams could use someone over his shoulder reassuring him that people want to hear the full Jungle Chase cue, or asking him why he's edited that section out of Rescuing Sarah, no one would ever tell him 'John, that 20 minutes in the middle of the album is dull as hell... put some action stuff in its place'. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,260 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Anyone else also prefers the first version of 5M40 Ugh, Vines?. It's more epic and enjoyable than the revised version. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I like both but the first version was probably better, yea Incidentally, "Ugh, Vines" is just a fake title some fan made up The actual name of that cue is "Mike Kahn Cooks" EDIT: I believe these are all the full original titles: http://filmcues.blogspot.com/2016/05/indiana-jones-and-kingdom-of-crystal.html Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,617 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (continuing from my last post) Actually, I think this quote from earlier perfectly summarises the only major problem this score has: On 3/7/2021 at 2:14 PM, crumbs said: I think that prolonged section of dull, middling suspense music (from the trip to Peru through until the jungle chase) would be even worse in C&C form. crumbs and bruce marshall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 At least with a complete release, each fan can make their own shorter program from it by cutting the tracks they don't personally like. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: At least with a complete release, each fan can make their own shorter program from it by cutting the tracks they don't personally like. That's if they're willing to shell out $30+ for a c and c version. Obviously, many here would. They are completists. But, those like myself who only purchase Williams scores we actually LIKE, will pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 336 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 15 hours ago, Jay said: these are all the full original titles: http://filmcues.blogspot.com/2016/05/indiana-jones-and-kingdom-of-crystal.html I am surprised, are those real? A lot of puns and name dropping in this list, who thought of those titles? Did they invite Giacchino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 As far as we know titles his cues himself Gurkensalat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,505 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Spoiler <stupid question, I should have read more carefully> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted March 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2021 The Call of the Crystal concert piece gives me goosebumps - just an outstanding piece. How about that dank harp thing that closes Irina's Theme? For me, the score is a great example of how Williams' sound and style have been refined since the first score and he put the effort in to make it feel like a part of the same world that makes you recognize that this is an Indiana Jones score. Holko, crumbs, WampaRat and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 @Arpy Agreed. Some very cool touches in those pieces. I think the Call of the Crystal is just as powerful a piece as the ark theme from Raiders now. (Especially when it’s used more sparingly in my playlist) A week into listening to my new curated playlist and it’s like I’ve discovered a whole new Indy score. I’ve listened to it every day (sometimes twice in one day) and have really started to “get” this score more and more (or appreciate the tracks I selected;) With some ost fat trimmed and some recording session highlights reinstated, I now don’t dread pulling this one up when I decide to go through a marathon of the Indy scores. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,617 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Yeah, it's a good playlist - I had a closer look at the cues you've included, and it fixes the issue with OST focusing too much on the dull first section in Peru, and heavily truncating the warehouse and jungle chase sequences. Taken as the full sessions, it's actually pretty good if I ignore the middle 25 minutes or so, and jump from the source cue at the end of The Trip to Peru more or less straight to the Jungle Chase. If only that middle section were more engaging musically, but it just isn't. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,709 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 On 7/11/2019 at 7:10 PM, rough cut said: Everybody’s hatin’ on KOTCS. I thought it was a good score. Lots of enjoyable music. Irina’s theme, The Snake Pit (someone should do an essay about this musical spoof throughout the series!), the traveling music is really good (Journey To Akator), and to me, Call Of The Crystal definitely sounds “Indy”! Mutt’s theme is great! Maybe people confuse the music with the character which would make it instantly less enjoyable... ? I think it’s melodical, fun and is memorable. So The Adventures Of Mutt is also a winner - but it really shines as it’s performed in the end credits! Oh, how I’d love to get that version with a clean fade in/out! I’ve always liked the score. On 3/8/2021 at 6:28 PM, WampaRat said: The action scoring is much more playful and light in Crystal Skull than I think people were expecting for an Indiana Jones adventure. I thought that this was a great point, and since I’m not that into “action music” I guess it is one of the reasons I like the score, even the OST, and I guess could be the point of people not liking it. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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