Popular Post gkgyver 1,645 Posted March 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 25, 2021 After browsing through YouTube clips connected with RedLetterMedia, because of all the Justice League talk, I came across a clip from Superman Returns, so I decided to watch the film again. This film was released in 2006, and around that time, it wasn’t received very well, I thought of it as an uninspired and partly miscast movie that offered too many cliches, was misplaced in the time it came, and suffered from being compared to the superior original. Fast forward to now. I had to live through Christopher Nolan turning Batman into a depressing fuck full of antiheroes, I had to live through Marvel releasing whole series for each of their characters, one more irrelevant than the next, one more indistinguishable than the next, one more vapid and empty than the next; I lived through these films turning into tech-laden self-serving showcases with the occasional dialogue; I had to live through Zack Snyder turning Batman into a gun wielding maniac; I had to live through Superman, most uplifting character ever, being turned into a depressed moping mass murderer. I had to witness superhero movies, and generally movies, being drained from colors, drained from fun, taking themselves as serious as fucking war epics, injected with and warped into shape by overbearing Hollywood mandates, agendas, and „visions“ by „auteur“ con directors who apparently hate the characters they are supposed to portray. Batman v Superman, Man Of Steel, Justice League, Dark Knight Rises, what steaming piles of utterly depressing fuckery. I had to witness orchestral, colorful, memorable music being replaced by brass farts and synth pads in the contrabasso register for 120 minutes straight. Point is, you soak these things in, even if you don’t directly pay attention, through osmosis, and you just adapt it as normality. When I watched Superman Returns again, and I truly, truly mean it, it warmed my heart. This barely more than ten year old film felt like a ray of sunshine in this movie environment. Everything in the film has a beating heart. HEART. It’s not a bogus ADHS plot, the film takes its time for moments. It has colors! I couldn’t believe it, a movie with bright colors! When Superman returns and saves the plane, the film takes a whole minute just for showing people CHEER for Superman all over the country! With heroic music! It just feels soooo good, being allowed by a film to feel good about it! The flying sequence with Superman and Lois WITH THE NON MORONIC SCORE feels so gentle and heartfelt. The ending too. It’s from the heart. I feel it. And it ends GOOD. Do you even realize that literally all the last big superhero films end with someone dying and just depressing as all fuck? Dark Knight, Rachel dies. Dark Knight Rises, Bruce dies. Man Of Steel, Metropolis in ruins. Batman vs Superman, Superman dies. Iron Man dies. Everyone fucking dies. Brandon Routh feels so right after the last 10 years. It just feels like such an uplifting character. You know, SUPERMAN? He doesn’t even have to do much, he radiates just warmth, smiles, and determination. You know, when actors were actually acting and not just bulking up? When Superman could be just nice, open, helpful, and Clark a bit dorky? You know, RELATABLE? And my god does it feel great to watch a superhero film that doesn’t take itself so serious. It’s never overly serious, nor is it too comedic, yet the key scenes are very touching. And the few humor bits are actually funny, like Lois fainting after the plane rescue. I smiled. A genuine smile. Last time I smiled during a superhero film was a sarcastic smile. The idiot in Batman vs Superman playing Lex Luthor can go fuck himself. And cinematography...I forgot how satisfying it is when there’s actual real stuff and real people in the camera, and no hamfisted bloke is zooming digital cameras about from impossible angles, letting CGI people fill in shit that wasn’t there, hoping it would not look too much like a video game. Even the score ... Back then, John Ottman‘s soundtrack was thought to be serviceable, but little more than that. Huge discrepancy between John Williams‘ original theme interludes and Ottman‘s fairly anonymous and in parts cliched underscore. Even THAT sounds like prime Williams through 2021 ears. When action sequences were containing written motifs instead of farts and looped strings, when composers had enough pride to be noticed in the film, and when the composers were still composers, and not musically illiterate button mashers fresh from a Hans Zimmer internship. I enjoyed that film so much, and it genuinely made me feel better. Then my heart ached when I realized nobody is interested in making films like these anymore. And it’s not even a terribly original film. On the contrary, next up is Robert Pattinson as deranged edgelord Batman. Fuck, when will it stop? The excuse that „time changes“ is bullshit, it doesn’t change on its own, it changes because Hollywood makes it change. No wonder young people are depressed as hell when this shit is the new normal. rough cut, Ricard and Wojo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 It's a good sequel to the 2 first movies. But, well, Bryan Singer and Kevin Spacey Muad'Dib and mstrox 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,432 Posted March 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2021 Sorry, but this movie is shite. Boring as fuck. And the fact that there's a pedophile directing and another starring as the villain only make it worse. Bespin, TSMefford and Muad'Dib 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Zzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 But Brandon thing was cute, no? scallenger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Even King Kong makes for a more inspiring action hero than modern gloomy Batman or antifa Joaquin Joker, who the kids today seem to idolise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bespin said: But Brandon thing was cute, no? He's definitely your type Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 54 minutes ago, gkgyver said: The excuse that „time changes“ is bullshit, it doesn’t change on its own, it changes because Hollywood makes it change. Well, yes and no. The general popular mood in 2006 was already a bit depressed and Superman Returns did not really cheer people up. There was a reason so many gravitated towards the ambiguous, often shapeless angst of the Nolan Batmans. And then the Recession hit, and pretty much every form of escapism had to have a "serious" element so that people felt their escapism was not quite as empty as it actually was. Plenty of folks like you were and are unimpressed. But the majority speaks and Hollywood speaks that language too. SR and MoS are both rather lackluster to me, for what it is worth. And Christopher Reeve and John Williams managed to capture the essence and promise of Superman even more than those 70s and 80s movies themselves did. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 989 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 It was a movie that definitely appealed to me when I saw it in theaters as a little kid. But as I got older, and saw a lot of the criticism thrown at it, it's a film I only really have a slight nostalgic connection to at this point. The music is definitely the one thing I keep taking from it, as I find it incredibly appealing in spite of technically not being anything special (though I prefer X2 at this point). Otherwise, not a lot of incentive to revisit this one, besides if I ever do another Reeves marathon. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 29 minutes ago, SteveMc said: Well, yes and no. The general popular mood in 2006 was already a bit depressed and Superman Returns did not really cheer people up. There was a reason so many gravitated towards the ambiguous, often shapeless angst of the Nolan Batmans. And then the Recession hit, and pretty much every form of escapism had to have a "serious" element so that people felt their escapism was not quite as empty as it actually was. Plenty of folks like you were and are unimpressed. But the majority speaks and Hollywood speaks that language too. I'm as baffled by the "realistic/relatable/dark/disturbing" era now as I was back then. I mean, it doesn't fit the preceding pattern in cultural zeitgeists and Hollywood's response to it. For example, following WW2, instead of getting a slew of depressing Holocaust films, the gradiose Hollywood musical emerged as the dominant genre on the production line. Following America's post-Vietnam trauma, people responded well to buoyant and optimistic blockbusters like Star Wars and Superman, and the demand for more fantasy-based cinema followed, and thus the modern geek-culture was born. Bleak New Wave 70s cinema died. But in the 2000s? What the hell happened? What was it about that time when when people were like "yeh nah, I want me movies to be as miserable as I am"? This was obviously a GenX/millennial thing, so there's something off about that mob that's mismatched with how previous generations think. Gruesome Son of a Bitch and MikeH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Not sure what Steve is going on about with The Recession and such. It had nothing to do with anything. Post-9/11 entertainment tended to be dark and disturbing, and crappy. Gen X ruined everything. Now, they're the ones in charge of everything and everything sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 If anything, more fantastical cinema was revived in the post-recession 2010s when Marvel emerged as the dominant genre and became a template for other film companies to emulate. Nolan and Snyder became more of a niche thing, crying out for attention to their bleak and oppressive nightmare movies, while the rest of the world clawed the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 The 80s were breezy The 90s were cynical The 2000s were dark and disturbing The 2010s were bleak and retarded Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I never thought I'd say this, but I reckon Godzilla vs Kong will have an overall warmer reception than Batman v Superman had. Although it won't make as much money (pandemic and shit), it'll be more widely-liked than Snyder's misfire. And much of that comes down to the fact that it isn't anywhere near as confusing plot-wise, is more optimistic, and Kong has a level of charisma and pathos in the movie that neither Bats or Supes could conjure in their own mash-up. GvK is so retarded, it's almost brilliant in its approach and formula to appeal to the masses, particularly in foreign markets. This is just a taste of what we're in for in the 2020s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2021 For a bunch that all claim to hate modern cinema, you’re all miserable fucks. Demondm810, SteveMc, Ollie and 4 others 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I'm a happy person. I'm happy with my life. I'm happy with the way things are going in my life. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Kora's such a bundle of joy. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Oh boy. I can't wait to tell the others. Thanks for the feedback everyone, good to hear that we're getting the credit for ruining modern cinema. Our plan for world domination is nearly complete. MWUAHAHAHAHA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,432 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 9 minutes ago, TSMefford said: China's plan for world domination is nearly complete. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 28 minutes ago, The Big Man said: Kora's such a bundle of joy. He obviously loves Superman Returns and all other crappy Millennial/Gen Z "Entertainment." Sorry creature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 2 hours ago, The Big Man said: I'm as baffled by the "realistic/relatable/dark/disturbing" era now as I was back then. I mean, it doesn't fit the preceding pattern in cultural zeitgeists and Hollywood's response to it. For example, following WW2, instead of getting a slew of depressing Holocaust films, the gradiose Hollywood musical emerged as the dominant genre on the production line. Following America's post-Vietnam trauma, people responded well to buoyant and optimistic blockbusters like Star Wars and Superman, and the demand for more fantasy-based cinema followed, and thus the modern geek-culture was born. Bleak New Wave 70s cinema died. But in the 2000s? What the hell happened? What was it about that time when when people were like "yeh nah, I want me movies to be as miserable as I am"? This was obviously a GenX/millennial thing, so there's something off about that mob that's mismatched with how previous generations think. Because people see heroism in their misery and self inflicted trauma, which they think is worthwhile teaching others. They are miserable, but it’s not gravely affecting their lives. They can lament their misery from a position of basic comfort. They don’t need a counterprogram because 1) it’s not so bad for them, and 2) many can‘t take happy people. This current generation grew up on instant satisfaction, so when it gets a bit more complicated and requires more persistance, they easily give up and therefore easily become miserable. So for this generation, the hero fantasy is either someone who succeeds instantly at everything (s)he does (Mary Sue), or someone who shares their misery and can’t ever be not plagued by sorrow. Thats also why there is so much fake drama in these movies, this generation in the age of digital communication has never properly learned to interact with and understand people. If you’re a war generation, you’re practically pushed towards escapism. But these people don’t look for escapism, but for identification, because they feel nobody understands them, because people become socially incompatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 The "themes and analysis" part is interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_v_Superman%3A_Dawn_of_Justice#Themes_and_analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,354 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I saw SUPERMAN RETURNS at the cinema. I liked it. I saw it, again, at the cinema, a few months later - in IMAX 3-D, this time. I liked it more. When the title music started up, I cheered. When I saw JW's credit, I'll admit that tears were shed. Who'd ever have thought that we'd ever hear that theme, at the cinema, again? It's not a perfect film, by any standards, but it's fun, and, yes, uplifting. I'd take SUPERMAN RETURNS over any amount of current MCU/DCU gobshite. rough cut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I only remember the boat, the piano and how much the movie tried to suck up to Donner. It's okay, but nothing to cherish though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I agree with NOF. I like the movie too - always found it underrated. rough cut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: When I saw JW's credit, I'll admit that tears were shed. I'd swear it's the briefest visible credit of any JW credit ever, it was disgraceful how quickly that thing darted by, probably the result of John Ottman slipping the credits designer a shady back-hander. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I hope John Williams' credit flies off the screen faster next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 It'll be a subliminal flash like that demon in The Exorcist. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,710 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I didn't think Superman Returns was that great to start with, and I don't think its aged particularly well. It's different enough from Superman I & II to not quite feel like the sequel it wants to be, but obviously has no connection to the Snyder films, making it somewhat of an orphan, and an unwanted one at that. That said, I understand your general sentiment, i.e. more recent entries in a franchise can make you appreciate older ones more. For example, I used to think Star Trek Voyager was pretty awful, but Discovery and Picard has caused me to reappraise it, and I've quite warmed up to it now. It's not that its gotten better over time, I just appreciate it for what it is now when compared to the new series and regard it as a kind of Trek comfort food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Anyone else remember when the Superman Returns sequel was gonna be titled "Man of Steel" and Brandon Routh was set to return and Singer bragged that it would the the Wrath of Khan of Superman movies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted March 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2021 That's basically my approach to score composers and directors. What were average scores and regular directors of 30+ years ago suddenly seem quite bloody decent and they make their modern equivalents look like absolute shit in comparison. Even a "bad" Spielberg movie blows away anything from JJ Abrams, who young idiots proclaim to be the nearest thing to the 70s wunderkind. Demondm810, MikeH and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 The journeymen/craftsmen of old suddenly look like geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted March 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2021 Your Richard Donners and your John McTiernans of the world, heck even your Chris Columbus and your Joe Dantes... I'd take their filmic savvy over most of the current crop, easy. MikeH, Ollie and Ricard 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 8 hours ago, Koray Savas said: For a bunch that all claim to hate modern cinema, you’re all miserable fucks. I wear that badge with honor! And stay off my lawn!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,354 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I think, part of the dissapointment was that for Superman Returns Singer refused to direct X-Men The Last Stand. But meanwhile we see with Singer's X-Men prequels that he is as well able to make bad X-Men movie's, so we can take that blame from Superman Returns and enjoy it better. Anyway, I didn't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I regard SUPERMAN RETURNS as a better-made SUPERMAN III. I would like to have seen the franchise "go all Wrath Of Khan". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 For those who never saw Superman Returns, it appears that Superman and Lois FUCKED in the two previous movies (no news there). So even if Superman turned the word around twice (very original ending for a Superman movie), his semen CAN'T BE erased, you know, it's SUPER SPERM after all!!! So in Superman Returns, Superman discover he have a son. End of the story. Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Supercum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 2 hours ago, GerateWohl said: I think, part of the dissapointment was that for Superman Returns Singer refused to direct X-Men The Last Stand. But meanwhile we see with Singer's X-Men prequels that he is as well able to make bad X-Men movie's, so we can take that blame from Superman Returns and enjoy it better. Anyway, I didn't like it. He only made two prequels and DoFP is one of the better superhero films Evanus and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,683 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I liked this when it came out (I don't think I'd seen the original back then) and it was harmless fun. I still think it is - I never really got all the hate surrounding it. I don't subscribe to the idea of retrospectively disliking a movie because an actor/director has done bad stuff. Won't go further into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 I own the DVD of the movie and I even purchased the score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 It’s not a perfect movie, but it’s not as bad as it’s reputation. Me, I like all the actors, and the movie has heart as pointed out, but the best thing is absolutely Superman flying to JW’s music. That is always going to be stunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 I just feel SR is lame and tepid. Routh looks the part but never seems comfortable. Bosworth is icy, aloof and humourless - the Lois character has never been more low-energy than she is here. Spacey is okay-ish, I guess. Posey is sidelined and wasted. I'd rather watch Supergirl. It's schlock that revels in the silliness of it all. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 1 hour ago, The Big Man said: Routh looks the part but never seems comfortable. Yes. He comes off as intimidated by the role and the shoes he had to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 1 hour ago, The Big Man said: I just feel SR is lame and tepid. Routh looks the part but never seems comfortable. Bosworth is icy, aloof and humourless - the Lois character has never been more low-energy than she is here. Spacey is okay-ish, I guess. Posey is sidelined and wasted. I'd rather watch Supergirl. It's schlock that revels in the silliness of it all. All of this. Totally agree. This movie will never be a "masterpiece" no matter how many brooding DC films exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,432 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Besides being a sex criminal and a creep, Singer was also a hugely overrated director. Returns is not good enough to be memorable nor bad enough to be entertaining. It's just a mediocre and utterly tedious flick that you forget after you watch it. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 989 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Was Singer ever even considered particularly reputable to the general public? Besides Usual Suspects and 2-3 X-Men films, he seemed to have just been one of Hollywood's go to studio guys to direct whatever random project they had lying around. This probably is more retroactive assessment from others that's clouding my perception, but I am curious to hear what others think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,354 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Probably people will crucify me here for saying that, nur except for the original soundtrack of the first film the Superman movies didn't age well. And since Singer kind of kicked off the new generation of marvel superhero movies like they are produced today with X-Men and X-Men 2, made with Superman Returns a superhero movie in the style that many had hoped to have overcome. It would be like today someone would make another Batman movie in the overexited Joel Schumaker style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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