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Rewatching Superman Returns - Hollywood turned it into a masterpiece


gkgyver
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5 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Besides being a sex criminal and a creep, Singer was also a hugely overrated director. 

 

Returns is not good enough to be memorable nor bad enough to be entertaining. It's just a mediocre and utterly tedious flick that you forget after you watch it. 

 

I completely respect your opinion, but don't really understand it :lol:

 

I saw it back at some film society showing at uni, and enjoyed it for what it was. A few bits of Ottman's score have always stayed with me.

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Athough I could never stand the despairing 8 note "Lois in peril" motif in the same cue, parts of the plane rescue music are genuinely quite thrilling, I remember being pumped. It's obviously the standout sequence of the film. 

 

I remember that being my main complaint with the movie, that there wasn't enough action or that the action overall wasn't satisfying enough, wasn't showy enough. I wanted to see moar shots of Superman in the air, physically in the scene. The originals always showed plenty of Chris up in air, on wires. It was great! Remember the tag, "You'll believe a man can fly"? I think newer filmmakers forget or don't realise how key that was. CG flight is not in the slightest bit wondrous and it just looks boring. 

 

That, and Kate Bosworth was horrible as Lois Lane. Like, literally the extreme opposite of good casting. 

 

So my memories of Superman Returns are minimal, it's a forgotten movie.

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4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I completely respect your opinion, but don't really understand it :lol:

 

I saw it back at some film society showing at uni, and enjoyed it for what it was. A few bits of Ottman's score have always stayed with me.

 

Ottman's score is the best thing about the movie. There's some really good cues in there. 

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In no way am I saying that it’s a great movie. I’m saying it has a thoroughly heartfelt feel good message, it’s a guilt free feel good movie, and I dare say it has a tiny sparkle of classic Hollywood - and all of this is brought to the surface because the movies that came after are bleak, depressing, and ridden with guilt.

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20 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Let's not forget that, for all it's "dark realism", SUPERMAN RETURNS actually made more money than BATMAN BEGINS.

Yeah, but it was way more expensive than BB. 

 

SR lost Warner Brothers a lot of money, while Begins eventually turned to a profit thanks to the huge home video sales.

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I‘d never watch BB again. 
I don’t want superhero films to be depressing.

 

They made Superman beating Zod depressing. That requires special talent.

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The Nolan batman films honestly end up being as cheery and colorful as Superman Returns apparently is when you compare them to Snyder's Batman V. Superman. I'll rewatch all the Nolan films in one go before I'd ever watch BvS again.

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11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Valerian is okay. Fun movie with some great visuals, but unfortunately the story and characters are a little forgettable.

 

The Splat's score is the best thing about it.

 

Oh for sure. It's not great, but I had fun with it. I just think it got a little unfairly slammed in it's reviews.

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8 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

If people were actually aiming for more light hearted fantasy action then I wonder why then Luc Besson's Valerian isn't held in higher esteem. 

 

Because it's silly? (and not in a good way?)

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9 minutes ago, AC1 said:

Because it's silly?

Yes, just like Superman Returns. 

 

Watching Valerian was a little bit like watching Jeunet's Alien Resurrection. Instead of suspense and horror you get some kind of slapstik.

9 minutes ago, AC1 said:

(and not in a good way?)

That's probably a matter of taste.

 

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1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

 

That's probably a matter of taste.

 

 

I don't know of many people who think every superman movie is silly or as silly as Valerian, but yeah, it's a matter of taste. 

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

I find the old Christopher Reeves films silly (for the most part) and enjoyed the heck out of Valerian.  I think the old Superman films were aiming to be taken more seriously though, while Valerian knows exactly what it is and revels in it form minute 1

 

Who is Christopher Reeves?

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25 minutes ago, Jay said:

... while Valerian knows exactly what it is and revels in it form minute 1

 

And was gravely disliked for it, because it wasn't funny silly, just bad silly, like the second half of The Fifth Element

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I thought Delevingne was good, but was DeHaan was absolutely terrible, and completely miscast.  He not only had no chemistry with Delevingne , but came off as a creep (largely as a result of his performance, but also due to some of the writing).  He was written to be this charismatic fun space adventurer, but DeHaan played him all dour and boring and I don't know why Besson cast him in the first place, or why he didn't try to get a different performance out of him once he was cast.

 

I'd be fine with a sequel that replaced him with someone else!

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Seems for these fantasy space adventures Besson doesn't mind to create any compassion of sympathy in the audience for the main characters. It seems all so ironic without being funny.

Like a parody on the script. 

 

Same with Fifth Element.

 

But I agree with Jay, I believe it is on purpose.

 

 

 

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It's part of the "Cinéma du look" movement that Besson was part of in the 80s and 90s (or "Cinema du Luc", as I once called it in an article). Along with Leos Carax and Jean-Jacques Beineix (Jeunet was not included in it, for some reason, but I include him anyway). It's not supposed to be complex narratives and complex characters; it's more about post-modern fetishism of the image itself. It's one of the reasons for why Besson remains one of my favourite directors - and why I was moved to tears when he returned back to form with LUCY a few years ago. Was never too hot on the MINIMOY movies and all that.

 

His new film ANNA is right around the corner, on Netflix, and I'm hoping it's another LUCY in quality, tone and look.

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Anna right around the corner?  What do you mean?  We watched that 2 years ago

 

Has it not released in Norway yet?

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

Anna right around the corner?  What do you mean?  We watched that 2 years ago

 

Has it not released in Norway yet?

 

Nope. Premieres on Netflix over here the day after tomorrow. It never got a theatrical screening here, as far as I can recall.

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Don't know. It wasn't picked up by any distributors for theatrical release over here back in 2019. IMDB says that it got an 'internet' release here that year, but that must be some streaming service I don't have access to.

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1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

Seems for these fantasy space adventures Besson doesn't mind to create any compassion of sympathy in the audience for the main characters. It seems all so ironic without being funny.

Like a parody on the script. 

 

Same with Fifth Element.

 

But I agree with Jay, I believe it is on purpose.

 

 

 

 

What is on purpose? That it's silly but not funny? What does that accomplish? At least Clark Kent's silliness in Donner's Supes was purposeful (forming a contrast with Superman), endearing and full of heart.

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2 minutes ago, AC1 said:

 

What is on purpose? That it's silly but not funny? What does that accomplish? At least Clark Kent's silliness in Donner's Supes was endearing and full of heart.

Peut être c'est quelque chose francaise. J'ne sait pas. 

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