Don Davis' THE MATRIX (1999) - 2021 Complete Edition by Varese Sarabande (2xCD / 2xSACD / 3xLP)

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

No SACD layers can be played on a regular CD player.

 

Some DVD-As can be played on a regular DVD player.

 

No SACD content can be played on a regular CD player.

If the SACD includes CDDA content, that can be played on a regular CD player.

No DVD-A content can be player on a regular DVD player.

If the DVD-A includes DVD-V content, that can be played on a regular DVD player.

 

Granted, the difference may be hardware vs software, because DVD-A and DVD-V use the same file system, but in case of a DVD-A it contains files that cannot be played by a regular player, whereas as far as I know an SACD will have the SACD and CDDA portions on different physical layers and only SACD specific hardware may have the right layer to even get the digital data off the disc in the first place.

 

The end result is the same, except for the important difference that any computer DVD drive can rip the full DVD-A content, but I don't think you can rip the SACD layer without special hardware.

[Jay 37,249]

41 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

No SACD content can be played on a regular CD player.

If the SACD includes CDDA content, that can be played on a regular CD player.

 

No DVD-A content can be player on a regular DVD player.

If the DVD-A includes DVD-V content, that can be played on a regular DVD player.

 

Yes!

 

Quote

 

Granted, the difference may be hardware vs software, because DVD-A and DVD-V use the same file system, but in case of a DVD-A it contains files that cannot be played by a regular player, whereas as far as I know an SACD will have the SACD and CDDA portions on different physical layers and only SACD specific hardware may have the right layer to even get the digital data off the disc in the first place.

 

Absolutely correct

 

Quote

The end result is the same, except for the important difference that any computer DVD drive can rip the full DVD-A content, but I don't think you can rip the SACD layer without special hardware.

 

Also correct, except you have to break the law to rip the data on a commercial DVD (crack the encryption). 

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

So the LP will play on my surround sound mono wax cylinder? Gotcha!

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

32 minutes ago, Jay said:

Also correct, except you have to break the law to rip the data on a commercial DVD (crack the encryption). 

 

The laws obviously differ from country to country, but I'm pretty sure the latest situation has been (for years - I believe both in the EU and the US?) that the CSS encryption mechanism employed by DVDs has been deemed to weak to count as effective encryption, hence cracking it is legal. Blu-rays are a different matter, because the encryption is stronger and the (absurd) law holds.

[Jay 37,249]

49 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I believe both in the EU and the US?) that the CSS encryption mechanism employed by DVDs has been deemed to weak to count as effective encryption, hence cracking it is legal. 

 

I didn't know that - that's pretty interesting!

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

I didn't know that - that's pretty interesting!

 

It originally was illegal in the US (as part of the Patriot Act I believe?), as was exporting it (encryption technology = military stuff), so people started printing sections of the cracking code on T-Shirts to smuggle it out of the country. As far as I remember, the ease and short time in which it was cracked ultimately lead to it being judged too simple to be worthy of legal protection.

[Yavar Moradi 2,576]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

 

That isn't true.  DVD-A and DVD-V are different and incompatible formats that happen to get pressed to the same medium.

 

The only way a standard DVD player could play content on a DVD-A disc is if the makers of that disc chose to add a DVD-V layer that has the same (musical) content as the DVD-A layer, but it'd be in a lower bitrate.  For example, the DVD-A discs that came in the first pressings of the LOTR CRs did this.  IIRC, there might have been a part of the standard that required them to include a DVD-V layer on every DVD-A disc, I cannot recall for sure right now, but that DVD-V layer could technically have different music or a different mix of the same music on top of being a different bitrate.

 

This is correct. DVD-As typically also included a DVD-V layer (in lower sound quality -- maybe even lossy?) just like SACDs typically include(d) a regular Redbook CD layer in addition to a stereo SACD layer and sometimes/often also a surround SACD layer. When putting a hybrid SACD into a regular CD player, only the CD layer is being read. And when putting a DVD-A disc into a regular DVD player, only the DVD-V layer is being read. One needs special players to do the higher quality audio on either format, though they are backwards compatible as I've explained.

This is one thing that was thankfully simplified with Blu-ray Audio, which plays normally in maximum audio quality on ANY Blu-ray player.

 

EDIT:

6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

No SACD content can be played on a regular CD player.

If the SACD includes CDDA content, that can be played on a regular CD player.

No DVD-A content can be player on a regular DVD player.

If the DVD-A includes DVD-V content, that can be played on a regular DVD player.

 

Granted, the difference may be hardware vs software, because DVD-A and DVD-V use the same file system, but in case of a DVD-A it contains files that cannot be played by a regular player, whereas as far as I know an SACD will have the SACD and CDDA portions on different physical layers and only SACD specific hardware may have the right layer to even get the digital data off the disc in the first place.

 

The end result is the same, except for the important difference that any computer DVD drive can rip the full DVD-A content, but I don't think you can rip the SACD layer without special hardware.

 

Or maybe I didn't need to write my own explanation, LOL.

 

Yavar

[Jay 37,249]

My copy arrived in the mail yesterday!

Haven't opened it yet, or really had a chance to look at it; It was left on my front stoop, and in between when it was left there and when I got home from work it utterly DOWNPOURED rain completely soaking the package.  I had to wipe everything dry with a towel.  Thank goodness for shrinkwrap!

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Shrink-wraps are tight.

[Jay 37,249]

It made it super easy, barely an inconvenience to wipe dry

[MrJosh 892]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

...it utterly DOWNPOURED rain completely soaking the package.  

ohh, a VERY inconsiderate downpour!

[Jay 37,249]

I'm gonna need you to get alllll the way off my back about the rain situation

[MrJosh 892]

oh well alright, let me get offa that thing

[mstrox 6,637]

Happened to my mail a few weeks ago - we had two packages on our porch and the clouds dumped out.  One was a yellow padded envelope and that thing soaked through, but luckily it was just some garment my spouse bought.  The other had an expensive David Bowie box set in jt, but thankfully it was the slightly hardier glossy padded envelope, so most of the water didn’t sink in.  The SHRINK WRAP did the rest.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

An expensive box set shouldn't be shipped in an envelope.

[mstrox 6,637]

Tell that to our friends at Amazon DOT COM

[Gurkensalat 336]

This is now available as digital download. But can I get it in 5.1? That is the big question here. https://intl.varesesarabande.com/products/the-matrix-the-complete-score

[Jay 37,249]

Stereo only for the digital download

 

US store link

 

https://www.varesesarabande.com/products/the-matrix

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

Is the digital download 16/44.1 or is it high res? They really should put this info in the listing.

[Jay 37,249]

They sure should, yep.

 

I'd wager dollars to donuts any format option is all 16/44.1

[Gurkensalat 336]

I asked about the 5.1 and they replied that they looked into it, but could not make it work with the delivery system they chose. Pity. I would have payed at least 30 Euro for the multichannel tracks which would be still half of the price of the SACD (due to postage and customs) for me. Heck, I would have payed at least 40, which is double of the regular download.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

What? The common standardised formats  provide lossless multichannel sound, and yet there are viable distribution platforms that cannot handle any of these formats?

[Gurkensalat 336]

I did not understand either.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

It's not that I don't understand or that I don't believe, more that I've seen enough about format politics, locked format ecosystems, and DRM platforms that (by definition) care only about maximising profit from the masses instead of supporting all features and use cases to not be surprised that the logistics for content creators are much more complicated than they should be.

[Gurkensalat 336]

This is the exact reply I got for my query:

 

We looked into that but it wasn't an option for the service that manages the delivery of our digital files.  The SACD is the only way to get the 5.1. Thanks for the question.

Jeff 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I have listened to the samples on Qobuz and ... what the fuck is going on with the volume of this release. It seems very volatile and I'm hesitant to buy it therefore.

[Jay 37,249]

33 minutes ago, Gurkensalat said:

Jeff 

 

[Gurkensalat 336]

52 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

 

??

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

That's what Jay looks like.

 

Home office can take its toll on anybody!

[Jay 37,249]

1 minute ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

??

 

It's a recurring joke in What We Do In The Shadows

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C02two9Anlw

[Jay 37,249]

FWIW the digital release is up on qobuz and 7digital clearly listed as 16/44.1

 

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/the-matrix-don-davis/o6x1g9bb9h9aa

https://us.7digital.com/artist/don-davis/release/the-matrix-the-complete-score-16779872?f=20%2C19%2C12%2C16%2C17%2C9%2C2

 

[Jay 37,249]

Oh it's on Spotify now too

 

https://open.spotify.com/album/6D2bGAKmIYtMQtL14c4vAb?si=Ioh30oAXQ4a0Dhjf8bIqlQ

[Jay 37,249]

Listening to my physical CD copy today.  Man, this is great, eh?

 

I love this complete definitive presentation, it flows well and sounds awesome.

 

I don't even mind that "Ignorance Is Bliss" is crossfaded and overlapped with "Cyber Cyphernetic" when they could have been left separated.  It's fine.

Great release, one of the best of 2021!

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I enjoy this score more than Reloaded or Revolutions, especially in complete form here. Great release of a fantastic score.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Has the pitch of this release been corrected yet?

[bruce marshall 1,314]

I😳

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Morpheus has finished listening to this edition. The presentation is too raw and the track titles are utterly ridiculous. Also, who or what is switch? I'm not following.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Too raw?

[Jay 37,249]

29 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Also, who or what is switch? I'm not following.

 

Davis (or someone on his team) took the words "The Wachowski Brothers" or "The Wachowskis" and created anagrams from those letters for several cue titles ("Switch Woks Her Boar").  Some are anagrams of "The Matrix" too ("Exit Mr Hat"). 

 

His original cue titles were kept on the Varese Deluxe and Varese Complete, even though he had come up with some more "normal" names for the original OST album

[bollemanneke 3,334]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Too raw?

Too raw.

[Richard Penna 3,664]

You might need to elaborate on that

 

I've listened to a few bits since receiving and it sounds fine.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I prefer my film scores raw and wriggling

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

Davis (or someone on his team) took the words "The Wachowski Brothers" or "The Wachowskis" and created anagrams from those letters for several cue titles ("Switch Woks Her Boar").  Some are anagrams of "The Matrix" too ("Exit Mr Hat").

 

As far as I remember, when he talks about this on the DVD's commentary track, it sounds like they're his own titles.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Too raw?

I think what he refers to is the archive-ish presentation of the score: no shorter cues joint for listening purposes, no comprehensible track titles chosen, and maybe the volatile volume between the individual tracks.

 

This album reminds me of the U.S. Marshals Deluxe Edition - everything was there and it sounded great, but all the final steps towards a consumer-friendly presentation were skipped.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Glad I kept the old expansion then.

[crocodile 7,973]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Glad I kept the old expansion then.

Isn't it the same situation though?

 

Karol

[Jay 37,249]

No, not at all. Davis curated highlights for the last expansion, even editing down some cues from their full length. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

26 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I think what he refers to is the archive-ish presentation of the score: no shorter cues joint for listening purposes, no comprehensible track titles chosen, and maybe the volatile volume between the individual tracks.

 

This album reminds me of the U.S. Marshals Deluxe Edition - everything was there and it sounded great, but all the final steps towards a consumer-friendly presentation were skipped.

 

Neither of them have anything on the Intrada Dick Tracy release!  Talk about not being consumer-friendly!

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

28 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Isn't it the same situation though?

 

Karol

 

I don't know, I never listen to it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

No, not at all. Davis curated highlights for the last expansion, even editing down some cues from their full length. 

 

Including the distractingly micro-edited Trinity Infinity. The complete release may have more "skippable" tracks (for example, I wouldn't consider the restaurant source music strictly necessary, although I don't mind having and listening to it), but I don't find it any more "raw" than the Varese DE.