John Williams returns for Indiana Jones 5

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

The Discussion main page reads as "Official: John Williams ret"  My mind keeps filling it in as "retires."  

 

I literally just came here to say that. Just now was the first time I noticed that and was like, "oh shit!" only to realize it was just the IJ5 thread. 

[Andy 4,085]

I just need that signature Indy fighting action ostinato with lots of brass (and less xylophone), and I'll be happy.  If his writing is trending more towards Rise of Skywalker, I think we'll be in for a treat.

 

I'd like to hear him lean heavily on the A and B themes, but new arrangements instead of direct quotes.

 

That Galaxy's Edge clip someone posted is definitely evidence that he can summon up the exotic Lawrence of Arabia sound no problem.

 

But I sure do love those low rhythmic strings which signify that Indiana Jones means business:

 

• Reunion in the Desert - that string motif of the Nazi excavation of Tanis
• Indy Rides the Statue - Boy oh boy, if there ever was a motif that needs to be dusted off, it's this one.  Just dripping with tension and adventure (used twice in Raiders)
• And of course some terrific military material like the German Sub.

 

These are all Raiders examples, but still... the power of those low strings to propel things effortlessly.

[King Mark 3,625]

I dunno, we've been in this situation a dozen times where a new Indiana Jones film is "imminent" only to be delayed several years

[Edmilson 7,392]

Yeah  .

 

I think I'll only "relax" when I see the new Indy score pop up on Spotify.

[Tom 4,639]

Due to Ford's age, this is a now or never proposition.  I think it gets made on time.  I also think if everything goes perfectly, it will be a 3 star movie (and I do not expect everything to go perfectly).  

[Bellosh 3,389]

I'm really looking forward to some new map/trek music.

 

KOTCS lacked in that department with the rehash of 'Flight from Peru' from Raiders and the Peruvian source music.

[eitam 364]

3 hours ago, Hedji said:

I'd like to hear him lean heavily on the A and B themes, but new arrangements instead of direct quotes.

 

Yes. If he uses those themes as much as he used the Force Theme in the last two Star Wars it should be more than enough ! 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Lik😊e your avatar

[Andy 4,085]

While I'm making a wishlist, I would love if he did something analogous to the Rise of Skywalker Theme... Something emotional, upbeat,  yet sweeping with adventure.  Sort of like putting the Grail theme and the Slave Children theme in a blender.  One more concert piece to say it's been a fun ride around the world.

[Tom 4,639]

1 hour ago, Hedji said:

While I'm making a wishlist, I would love if he did something analogous to the Rise of Skywalker Theme... Something emotional, upbeat,  yet sweeping with adventure.  Sort of like putting the Grail theme and the Slave Children theme in a blender.  One more concert piece to say it's been a fun ride around the world.

Yes, it does seem likely he will give a melancholic send off. a thread that has run through many of his scores the last 10 years.  

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

3 hours ago, Hedji said:

While I'm making a wishlist, I would love if he did something analogous to the Rise of Skywalker Theme... Something emotional, upbeat,  yet sweeping with adventure.  Sort of like putting the Grail theme and the Slave Children theme in a blender.  One more concert piece to say it's been a fun ride around the world.

This

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

4 hours ago, Hedji said:

While I'm making a wishlist, I would love if he did something analogous to the Rise of Skywalker Theme... Something emotional, upbeat,  yet sweeping with adventure.  Sort of like putting the Grail theme and the Slave Children theme in a blender.  One more concert piece to say it's been a fun ride around the world.

 

Something like that would be fantastic. I'm hoping that is something that might be befitting of belonging to a History or a Legacy Theme of sorts? What does one's life stand for after they're gone, what does one want to be remembered for in the grand scheme of things, what is one's place in history, what is the importance of acquiring and preserving these artifacts, etc. If the film is meant to be the send-off to the character, I can't help but think the film will try to touch on at least some of that in some way.  

[Brando 1,856]

I’m hoping he writes something similar to TROS regarding the End Credits section. Definitely feature one new theme, but then maybe do a selection of other themes, and then end it with a fast paced version of the Raiders March similar to how Raiders ends. I do think it’d be cool if somewhere in the film we get to hear a reprise of the Young Indy motif, even just a quick one, that would be stellar.

[crumbs 14,301]

36 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

What does one's life stand for after they're gone, what does one want to be remembered for in the grand scheme of things, what is one's place in history, what is the importance of acquiring and preserving these artifacts, etc. 

 

That's been my number one wish for a final Indiana Jones film since mumblings began after KOCS. One of its biggest disappointments is that it didn't bother exploring such themes or addressing Indy's age in a meaningful way. There was rich potential to explore those ideas and Indy coming to terms with his life and legacy, all wasted. About the only thing that came close was the brief discussion around losing Marcus and Henry.

 

I recall Darabont had a great scene in his script where Indy got drunk and wandered around the museum, reflecting on various artifacts recovered through his life. I really hope we get some retrospection in Mangold's story (Logan was exceptional at this).

 

A solemn new theme to accompany that idea would be amazing, but I suspect Williams would approach it with lots of warm horn presentations of the Raiders march (as in TLC).

[Bellosh 3,389]

23 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

That's been my number one wish for a final Indiana Jones film since mumblings began after KOCS. One of its biggest disappointments is that it didn't bother exploring such themes or addressing Indy's age in a meaningful way. There was rich potential to explore those ideas and Indy coming to terms with his life and legacy, all wasted. About the only thing that came close was the brief discussion around losing Marcus and Henry.

 

I don't mean to nerd out, but the actual novelization of KOTCS (yes i read it lol) addresses Indy coming to terms with his age for a bit, when he's relieved of his duties as professor.  He really does begin to question what he should be doing at such an age.  I remember really wishing that concept made it to the film.  It being my first time reading a novelization of a major film, it was a welcome surprise at how in depth they could be.

 

Now obviously nobody should have to read the novelization of these feature films to achieve such knowledge of the character.  So I echo your post and agree it's a great idea to explore with Indy.

[WampaRat 1,105]

I also read the Darabont script and thought it did a great job at having those moments of reflection. (Loved that museum scene) It never got bogged down in the nostalgia. But it gave the audience a chance to catch up with our favorite adventurer. It’s odd that KOTCS borrowed a lot of ideas from THAT script. But none of its heart.

 

An odd parallel with the rejected Ep 9: Duel of the Fates script and Rise of Skywalker I feel.

[crumbs 14,301]

There seemed to be a concerted effort to completely ignore Indy's age in Koepp's script (other than Mutt's joke) and carry on as if the film was occurring at the same time as the earlier 3.

 

I think it would be foolish to avoid the issue in 5, especially when they could intertwine his age into the plot/McGuffin itself (not to mention the musical potential Williams could bring, himself enjoying similar retrospection at this advanced stage of his career).

 

The "eternal life" powers of the Holy Grail would've been perfect for an older Indy story, actually. I guess Fountain of Youth or Garden of Eden stories could replicate that.

[Thor 7,465]

Seeing the first few letters of this topic from the messageboard main page scares me a bit every time!

 

 

....ires.

[crumbs 14,301]

Yeah it's a bit off-putting. Could we please get a thread rename @Jay @TownerFan?

 

Maybe John Williams' INDIANA JONES V (2022) ?

[Jay 37,287]

12 hours ago, crumbs said:

That's been my number one wish for a final Indiana Jones film since mumblings began after KOCS. One of its biggest disappointments is that it didn't bother exploring such themes or addressing Indy's age in a meaningful way. There was rich potential to explore those ideas and Indy coming to terms with his life and legacy, all wasted. About the only thing that came close was the brief discussion around losing Marcus and Henry.

 

One strange thing about Crystal Skull is that while it was filmed in the summer of 2007 when Harrison Ford was 65, it was set in 1957, when the Indiana Jones character was only 58.  It's kinda silly because Ford looked and acted like of retirement age the entire time, even though he was supposed to be still be middle aged, so maybe that's why there's no scenes like that

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

It's not the age, honey, it's the mileage.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

Hey, that's my line, Dr. Jones!

[WampaRat 1,105]

Did you guys all see this when it dropped in 2016? The work of a very devoted fan. Could you imagine how fun an actual cartoon like this would be? 

[Jay 37,287]

8 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

Did you guys all see this when it dropped in 2016?

 

Yea, we had a thread about it

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26656-indiana-jones-animated-short

 

It's cool but sooooo short

[WampaRat 1,105]

Oh yes. Far too short. I believe the intent was just to create an “opening titles” ala Batman The Animated series for a hypothetical Indy series. A Proof of Concept. I would definitely contribute to a kickstarter to raise money for a full episode. Only a few guys hand animated it all by themselves!

[Jay 37,287]

Yea, it's pretty impressive!

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

18 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

Oh yes. Far too short. I believe the intent was just to create an “opening titles” ala Batman The Animated series for a hypothetical Indy series.

There's even a small apparence of the Batman's theme at 0:20

 

I would definitely buy for a serie like that one. It's absolutely great work and I would prefer Lucasfilm to do this (with a JW score of course) over another movies but unfortunately I'm not running Lucasfilm

[crumbs 14,301]

I hope the main villain has a seriously nasty, violent death in this film. Spalko's "death" in KOCS was pathetically bloodless.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

Best villain death

[WampaRat 1,105]

Ooh yeah. That’s a great baddie death. We need a big dude getting crushed/chopped up by something in this new one. In general there was an overall lack of danger/serious threat/dire urgency in Indy 4.  
 

I know the response of shocked parents at the time Temple of Doom came out made Spielberg swing the tone back in the other direction for Last Crusade. But it seemed like he was still soooo concerned about it that he pushed Indy 4 even lighter than one. 

[crumbs 14,301]

23 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

But it seemed like he was still soooo concerned about it that he pushed Indy 4 even lighter than one. 

 

There was no doubt in my mind after KOCS that Spielberg was no longer the right fit for Indiana Jones. Everything post-Munich has been so bloodless/safe/kid-friendly.

 

It's funny how TLC drastically toned down the violence compared to TOD, but it's practically the Texas Chainsaw Massacre compared to the toothless, Looney Tunes antics in KOCS. There's only one shot in the entire film of someone being shot: when Indy's gun accidentally shoots some soldier in the foot.

 

24 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

We need a big dude getting crushed/chopped up by something in this new one.

 

Why would you have that super-awesome tree-cutting vehicle with rotating saws and a gigantic human-sized mulcher, then proceed to not do anything with it, at all? 

 

 

There should've been multiple grisly deaths with that thing! It's like the sole purpose of this design was to be the center of an awesome action sequence with heaps of violent gags like the rock crusher in TOD.

 

Spielberg in the 80s wouldn't have missed that opportunity.

[Jay 37,287]

16 minutes ago, crumbs said:

There's only one shot in the entire film of someone being shot: when Indy's gun accidentally shoots some soldier in the foot.

 

Wow, I didn't know that.  That's pretty sad.

 

16 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Why would you have that super-awesome tree-cutting vehicle with rotating saws and a gigantic human-sized mulcher, then proceed to not do anything with it, at all? 

 

There should've been multiple grisly deaths with that thing! It's like the sole purpose of this design was to be the center of an awesome action sequence with heaps of violent gags like the rock crusher in TOD.

 

Spielberg in the 80s wouldn't have missed that opportunity.

 

Great point

 

The closest thing to a "grisly death" KOCS has is when that guy gets covered with ants, but it just looks so... goofy.  It's nothing like the original's similar deaths

[Disco Stu 15,495]

As one of the biggest fans on JWFan of his "adult" dramas in the 21st century, I completely agree that he is not right for movies like Indy anymore.   I don't lament this fact though.  He's a different filmmaker than he was 40 years ago, still a great one for me, and I hope he's finally done trying to recapture that old energy.

[Jay 37,287]

I dunno, Tintin was only 10 years ago and that was a great action adventure flick.  He could have another one of those in him.

 

I am curious what the mix between drama and fantasty/adventure/whatever the childhood movie will be

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I admire the technical ingenuity of the action in Tintin, but it is nowhere near a great movie for me personally.

[crumbs 14,301]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

The closest thing to a "grisly death" KOCS has is when that guy gets covered with ants, but it just looks so... goofy.  It's nothing like the original's similar deaths

 

All the CGI looks almost stylistically goofy, like they were intentionally going for a campy, cartoon tone with the VFX. The shot of the soldiers on fire after the rocket sled is comical too. Completely deflates any realism or tension.

 

And the less said about the crotch-slapping trees and vine-swinging monkeys, the better.

 

I have no idea why the entire jungle chase looks so bad but it's really quite shocking for a Spielberg film to have such poor VFX. 

[Quintus 5,399]

Ready Player One wasn't perfect but that was reassuringly Spielbergian for me, I really loved it. I haven't seen it since and probably need to take another look at it by now. 

 

The trouble with Steven these days is he has to go out of his way to recall his golden touch, adventurous escapism just doesn't come naturally to him anymore. But when he really tries, he's still miles better than Abrams, Trevorrow, and all the Marvel directors put together. 

[WampaRat 1,105]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

 

Why would you have that super-awesome tree-cutting vehicle with rotating saws and a gigantic human-sized mulcher, then proceed to not do anything with it, at all? 

I remember seeing the leaked photo of that vehicle and thinking “oooh boy! Someone’s getting tossed into THAT and it’s not gonna be pretty...”

 

nope.

[theMaestraX 106]

I've got a bad feeling about this but having JW on board is a no-brainier.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

On 4/13/2021 at 3:39 PM, Jay said:

I hope this score has a really good, strong, memorable, long-lined theme for the film's macguffin.

 

Raider's Ark Theme is amazing

 

Temple of Doom's Shankara Stones Theme is great

 

Last Crusade's Grail Theme is amazing

 

Crystal Skull's Crystal Skull Theme is..... eh... it's fine

 

Let's go back to the strong memorable themes that the biblical artifacts had!

At the very least, I hope it's more like Tintin's Unicorn Theme, and less like the Call Of The Crystal...

 

I might say that the Unicorn thorn is maybe the best mcguffin theme Williams has written - simply because it is an actual theme or melody so to say. Most other mcguffins themes are motifs or just a series of short descending or ascending phrases - like the Crystal Skull theme or the Stone them from HP1.

 

But the unicorn theme is a proper theme with an A part and B part and lends itself to several transmutations and epic performances and mystery versions and action versions and what not.

 

So the Unicorn theme is definitely the best model for the mcguffin.

 

On a side note, we have no idea what the mcguffin is yet, right?

[mrbellamy 6,272]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

I dunno, Tintin was only 10 years ago and that was a great action adventure flick.  He could have another one of those in him.

 

I am curious what the mix between drama and fantasty/adventure/whatever the childhood movie will be

 

Where was it announced that the childhood movie would have fantasy/adventure elements? 

[Jay 37,287]

It wasn't, that's why I said "whatever the childhood movie will be" 

[Bellosh 3,389]

I really want the score to have a 'globetrotting' feel, similar to Raiders and especially The Last Crusade.

 

You don't feel like you travel anywhere in KOTCS.  Mostly due to the film.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

The mcguffin will be a super deadly COVID mutation, engineered by the Chinese. Travelling will be banned, and all action will take place on Teams.

[Bellosh 3,389]

in the Latin alphabet, Zoom meetings begins with an I

[Jay 37,287]

28 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

I really want the score to have a 'globetrotting' feel, similar to Raiders and especially The Last Crusade.

 

You don't feel like you travel anywhere in KOTCS.  Mostly due to the film.

 

That's a great point. 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Mangold says Williams has read the script and is ready to go. 

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

Interesting. Williams tends not to read scripts, but I guess now that he tends to spread-out his work on scores, developing ideas from the script gives him more time.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

8 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Interesting. Williams tends not to read scripts, but I guess now that he tends to spread-out his work on scores, developing ideas from the script gives him more time.

Either that or Williams has “read” the script like I tell people I’ve read Proust.

[crumbs 14,301]

Fascinating! JW has said time and time again that he hates reading scripts in advance of seeing the film proper. I wonder if this was his way of checking whether the film was worth signing onto?

 

Hopefully it's a net positive that he's already writing a score in his head. I mean, really... it's Indiana Jones, and they do hold to a certain formula. So if this means he can spend more time coming up with themes for the McGuffins then I'm totally down for that!