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Jerry Goldsmith's LIONHEART (1987) - NEW 2021 2CD Varese Deluxe Edition


Jay
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I had the 94 release plus the Vol 2 CD. That gave me the 19 tracks. I wonder if this means they had to source the film stems for the 2 “bonus” tracks? 
 

I didn’t realize Varese was announcing these early in the morning. I thought it was a mistake or joke, or someone had listed the iTunes release from 2012.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I don't own any previous release of this score, the samples sound awesome, so I'm picking it up for sure.

 

Exactly this for me

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I snagged the digital release of this as a reward for myself after finishing a semester of my MBA back in 2018. Great score! 
 

I made a custom cover for it too as something about the tiny title in it bothered me lol.

A00E786C-2788-451F-9546-BCC552305A8D.jpeg

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The Academy has Goldsmith's sketches - http://collections.new.oscars.org/Details/Archive/71302978

Quote

1-1 "The Castle," 3 pages; 

1-2 "The Ceremony," 3 pages; 

1-3 "Bring Him Back," 4 pages; 

2-1 "Failed Knight," 8 pages; 

2-2 "The Circus," 7 pages; 

3-1 "Robert and Blanche," 5 pages; 

3-2 "Bondage," 2 pages; 

4-1 "The Black Prince," 3 pages; 

4-2 "Children in Bondage," 11 pages; 

5-1 "The Future," 2 pages; 

5-2 "Gates of Paris," 4 pages; 

5-4/6-1 "Paris Underground," 8 pages; 

6-4 "The Road from Paris," 4 pages; 

7-2 "The Banner," 8 pages; 

7-3 "The New Court," 2 pages; 

8-2 "The Dress," 3 pages; 

8-3/9-1 "Matilda," 10 pages; 

9-2 "Saracen Ride," 2 pages; 

9-3 "The Plague," 6 pages; 

9-4/10-1 "Forest Hunt," 14 pages; 

10-2/11-1 "The Lake," 5 pages; 

11-2 "The Wrong Flag," 5 pages; 

11-3 "Final Fight," 7 pages; 

11-4/12-1 "King Richard," 8 pages; 

12-2 "End Title," 6 pages

 

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I don't own any previous release of this score, the samples sound awesome, so I'm picking it up for sure.

Ditto although I am very familiar with the score. This was one of my remaining Goldsmith holy grails.

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So no remaster? It wouldn't fix the orchestra's performance, but I hoped a little more punch to the sound might help it.

 

1 hour ago, Jim Ware said:

The Academy has Goldsmith's sketches - http://collections.new.oscars.org/Details/Archive/71302978

 

Paging James Fitzpatrick and Nic Raine.

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8 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

So, why is mark hammil on the cover :P

 

Why are you on the cover?

 

2 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

So no remaster? It wouldn't fix the orchestra's performance, but I hoped a little more punch to the sound might help it.

 

Yeah why aren't they making it brighter and louder this time?

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12 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I think you mean Nic Raine? Nick Redman is no longer with us and was not a conductor but an album producer for Fox.

 

D'oh, of course. Stupid muscle memory. Nick Redman might have given us a nice Blu-ray with iso score, were he still here.

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@Yavar Moradi thanks!

 

Sorry to spoil your next podcast.

 

Varese kinda worded that weirdly so I was wondering if that meant it wasn’t from the actual sessions and they had to find a different source, hence the stems.

 

But a big thanks to you for your hard work in getting these added. And to Doug Fake as well. 
 

 

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Thanks for clarifying the situation with the new unreleased two cues @Yavar Moradi! The sequencing of the two discs makes perfect sense now. Shame about the lesser quality of the two cues but I am just really glad they were found in the first place after such arduous seach and could be included in the complete set. :) 

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Yavar, thank you for that story - that was a fascinating read!

 

And thanks to you and Doug for getting those cues onto the new album!

 

One question remains - how was the clean ending to The Future created for this release, please?  If all they had was the OST and Vol 2 album masters, does that mean the team had to create a faked ending?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jim Ware said:

The Academy has Goldsmith's sketches - http://collections.new.oscars.org/Details/Archive/71302978

 

Thanks for that!

 

Is 9M2 Saracen Ride a cue included within the OST track "Mathilda" after 8M3/9M1 Matilda, or is it an unreleased / unrecorded cue?

 

Everything else makes complete sense and is added to the google doc.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Is 9M2 Saracen Ride a cue included within the OST track "Mathilda" after 8M3/9M1 Matilda, or is it an unreleased / unrecorded cue?

 

It's not in the Mathilda cue, that's for sure. 

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14 minutes ago, Thor said:

I have this one, which is all I ever need throughout the history of time itself:

 

R-4099702-1355209566-7129.jpeg.jpg

 

We know, Thor. And we are happy for you. Now be happy for the rest of us that we are getting more music from this amazing score. :) 

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Is 9M2 Saracen Ride a cue included within the OST track "Mathilda" after 8M3/9M1 Matilda, or is it an unreleased / unrecorded cue?

 

Everything else makes complete sense and is added to the google doc.

 

That cue was recorded, and is even in the film! I actually posted a film rip of it in the Intrada forum's fun "That Unreleased Cue" thread, back on March 6, which you can find here (nobody even tried to guess it alas, and the one person who commented said, "That is one of those cues that would show up on the bonus section of an expanded album, perhaps titled "Generic Percussion #1" or something of that sort." I personally think that calling it "generic" is harsh; IMO it should appeal to people like me to who love the solo percussion writing in The Wind and the Lion:

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8073&start=150

 

Unfortunately, it was not on Doug's dupe tape of the sessions. Believe me that I (and David at The Odyssey) combed through that tape transfer looking for it. Not there, not hidden by being tacked on the end of any other cue. My suspicion, though I don't have documentation to back this up: since it was a percussion-only cue, it was recorded at a later pickup session, not the orchestral sessions attended by Doug and maybe not even in Hungary. (The keyboard overlays were done later and not recorded in Hungary either.) So yes, technically this release is still incomplete (but it's now "99.5% complete", as Bruce Botnick described Looney Tunes: The Deluxe Edition in his notes) and is missing one short half minute percussion cue that is in the film. If someone ever decides to run a Kickstarter to freshly record the complete score (hopefully using Jerry's original sketches in the Academy's Margaret Herrick Library, which was the link Jim Ware posted), I hope they include this short cue because I like it even though it really doesn't connect to the rest of the score in any way.
 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

One question remains - how was the clean ending to The Future created for this release, please?  If all they had was the OST and Vol 2 album masters, does that mean the team had to create a faked ending?

 

I don't know about "faked" but all they had were the album masters (and Doug's dupe tape actually bizarrely had that transition to the End Credits tacked onto "The Future" as well, to my surprise). I was told Chas Ferry the mastering engineer would trim the End Credits part off the masters for that Vol. 2 track. That's the best Varese could possibly do given the material they had.

 

Yavar

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7 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

That cue was recorded, and is even in the film! I actually posted a film rip of it in the Intrada forum's fun "That Unreleased Cue" thread, back on March 6, which you can find here (nobody even tried to guess it alas, and the one person who commented said, "That is one of those cues that would show up on the bonus section of an expanded album, perhaps titled "Generic Percussion #1" or something of that sort." I personally think that calling it "generic" is harsh; IMO it should appeal to people like me to who love the solo percussion writing in The Wind and the Lion:

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8073&start=150

 

Unfortunately, it was not on Doug's dupe tape of the sessions. Believe me that I (and David at The Odyssey) combed through that tape transfer looking for it. Not there, not hidden by being tacked on the end of any other cue. My suspicion, though I don't have documentation to back this up: since it was a percussion-only cue, it was recorded at a later pickup session, not the orchestral sessions attended by Doug and maybe not even in Hungary. (The keyboard overlays were done later and not recorded in Hungary either.) So yes, technically this release is still incomplete (but it's now "99.5% complete", as Bruce Botnick described Looney Tunes: The Deluxe Edition in his notes) and is missing one short half minute percussion cue that is in the film. If someone ever decides to run a Kickstarter to freshly record the complete score (hopefully using Jerry's original sketches in the Academy's Margaret Herrick Library, which was the link Jim Ware posted), I hope they include this short cue because I like it even though it really doesn't connect to the rest of the score in any way.

 

Fascinating!  Thanks for that!

 

7 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I don't know about "faked" but yes all they had were the album masters (and Doug's dupe tape actually bizarrely had that transition to the End Credits tacked onto "The Future" as well, to my surprise). I was told Chas Ferry the mastering engineer would trim End Credits part out from that source.

 

That means its faked!

 

It doesn't mean it will sound bad or anything - I'm sure it sounds perfectly fine and nobody would ever know just by listening.  But it does mean the actual full recorded ending remains unreleased as well.

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Ha!  I am curious to hear them - I love Yavar's description, about how they introduce themes that are later embellished in cues that have been released all along.

 

That kind of stuff is usually my biggest problem with an OST album, if I have one -- when the thematic development gets lost

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6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Ha!  I am curious to hear them - I love Yavar's description, about how they introduce themes that are later embellished in cues that have been released all along.

 

That kind of stuff is usually my biggest problem with an OST album, if I have one -- when the thematic development gets lost

 

Totally agreed -- especially with a Jerry Goldsmith score, when the architecture of the thematic development is always so compelling.

 

Yavar

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For me, there is no better example than A.I. Artificial Intelligence.

 

When I first heard how that abandonment theme (I forget what Jeff Bond calls it now) is properly set up in "David And Martin" and "Monica’s Plan" before exploding in "Abandoned In The Woods", my mind was blown

 

Likewise in the same score, learning how the Blue Fairy Theme was supposed to be set up in "Immaculate Heart" and "To Manhattan" before running through the third act.... just as amazing

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42 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

 IMO it should appeal to people like me to who love the solo percussion writing in The Wind and the Lion:

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8073&start=150

 

 

Yavar

You aren't  talking about the interminable marching percussion are you? ;)

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1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

We know, Thor. And we are happy for you. Now be happy for the rest of us that we are getting more music from this amazing score. :) 

 

Absolutely! Knock yourselves out!

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I'm quite curious with the track assembly. I'm familiar with the score, but for some reason, I never tried a chronological assembly of the two albums I own. It will be interesting to better track the thematic development with this one

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Gee, that cover art reminds me of another film....

Hmmmm...

Can't quite place it...

Two word title starts with " S"

😝

54 minutes ago, Falco said:

You aren't  talking about the interminable marching percussion are you? ;)

I kinda think he is😔

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38 minutes ago, Romão said:

I'm quite curious with the track assembly. I'm familiar with the score, but for some reason, I never tried a chronological assembly of the two albums I own. It will be interesting to better track the thematic development with this one


The chronological program (as well as the two added cues which introduce the Black Prince theme) makes a HUGE difference to the impression this score makes, IMO.

 

Yavar

 

P.S. The Wind and the Lion percussion writing I was referring to was the more “ethnic” stuff (look up “Saracen”), not marching stuff.

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Just curious have you rearranged Wind and the Lion into chronological as composed order Yavar?

29 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:


The chronological program (as well as the two added cues which introduce the Black Prince theme) makes a HUGE difference to the impression this score makes, IMO.

 

Yavar

 

P.S. The Wind and the Lion percussion writing I was referring to was the more “ethnic” stuff (look up “Saracen”), not marching stuff.

 

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38 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think he meant taking all the source music and putting it in between score tracks


Oh, if that’s the case I have no idea. Unless the source music is thematically connected to the score in some way, I don’t want it interrupting my score program. It’s interesting and nice to have it as a bonus, for sure. But usually not essential to me.

 

”Saracen Ride” is not source music by the way, as far as I can tell. (In the film Lionheart, there is no one visible playing it, and it would be kinda awkward if there were...would be like King Arthur’s servant with the coconuts or something, from Monty Python and the Holy Grail 😂 )

 

Yavar

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4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Unless the source music is thematically connected to the score in some way, I don’t want it interrupting my score program. It’s interesting and nice to have it as a bonus, for sure. But usually not essential to me.

 

I agree with Yavar Moradi

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Here’s a source cue I wish had been saved and released in chronological order with the rest of the score, written for a dance scene in Studs Lonigan and a cool/unique variant on the main theme:

Here’s another unreleased Studs Lonigan (regular score) cue, probably the most substantial of the ones left off whatever source Doug Fake had for that score...

 

Goldsmith Odyssey listeners will already know these two pieces (and all the other shorter unreleased bits) from our podcast on that score, where we cover every single cue:

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/866001-episode-15-studs-lonigan-1960
 

Yavar

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9 minutes ago, Unlucky Bastard said:

 

The OST is shorter. Right up your alley!


Haha yeah, I just realized Thor’s preferred program is technically an expansion. (“The Epic Symphonic Score” has everything from the original Varese Lionheart album, plus about half of Volume 2!)

 

Yavar

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4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Dammit, Stu, now I feel the urge to watch Harakiri again! Such a good film...will be tough to talk the wife into it even though it’s a Criterion release...hmmm....

 

Yavar

 

Like most Takemitsu scores, not really meant for listening to outside the film, but boy does it help make the visuals even more striking in context.

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On 4/30/2021 at 3:49 PM, Yavar Moradi said:


Why would I have to? The fantastic Intrada expansion is complete and chronological as far as I know.

 

Yavar

One of the cues is in final film order, not scoring order IIRC

 

 

 

 

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Happy to finally see this score re-released that was OOP since long before I was born (which makes me wonder, why it's limited to frickin' 1500 copies only). I don't even really know and have never owned any version of the score, so this is a must-buy for me. I just hope that the artificial ending of The Future doesn't sound distracting in any form.

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It’s actually 2000 copies. I think we saw this on Looney Tunes too — there turned out to be another 500 copies, but Varese US listed the number *they* were allocated (1500 US copies here, 2000 for Looney). Someone shared a photo of their physical copy at FSM:

 

image.jpeg

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