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Jerry Goldsmith's LIONHEART (1987) - NEW 2021 2CD Varese Deluxe Edition


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12 minutes ago, May the Force be with You said:

How could it is already being sold out?

 

2,000 fans wanted to own it?

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  • 2 weeks later...
21 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

My copy just shipped.

Ditto! I ordered from the Varese international store. 

 

And now I await with great anticipation how many weeks it will take for this package to arrive to Finland from Britain. The last one with Knowing took "only" 3 weeks.

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1 hour ago, Incanus said:

And now I await with great anticipation how many weeks it will take for this package to arrive to Finland from Britain. The last one with Knowing took "only" 3 weeks.

 

And whether it's correctly declared as a gift, because the original order already listed the full shipping costs and the full amount I paid for all CDs, including this one - and therefore I've already had to pay taxes for it.

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16 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

And whether it's correctly declared as a gift, because the original order already listed the full shipping costs and the full amount I paid for all CDs, including this one - and therefore I've already had to pay taxes for it.

Since I have no way to know what price they mark on the package VS what my bill reads, I paid VAT for the first CD set (Knowing which I ordered with Lionheart) separately and am sure I have to pay the second VAT for this second package. That is all fair and square but now I have to pay separate 2,99 € for each declared package so that Finnish postal service deigns to deliver it to me. Wonderful new regulations. But as someone else here said, this is an expensive hobby.

 

But I am really excited to get this score finally on CD! Absolutely classic Jerry! :) 

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22 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Since I have no way to know what price they mark on the package VS what my bill reads, I paid VAT for the first CD set (Knowing which I ordered with Lionheart) separately and am sure I have to pay the second VAT for this second package. That is all fair and square but now I have to pay separate 2,99 € for each declared package so that Finnish postal service deigns to deliver it to me. Wonderful new regulations. But as someone else here said, this is an expensive hobby.

 

But I am really excited to get this score finally on CD! Absolutely classic Jerry! :) 

 

I checked (and kept) the invoice on my first package to make sure that it includes Lionheart and the full shipping costs on the bill, so clearly the outstanding shipment should be a gift (which I don't have to pay for). Otherwise they would have to mark the first package correctly - AND ask me whether to split the order or hold back the other discs until everything is in stock, because I certainly would have chosen to get only one package and not pay handling fees twice just because they messed up the cover text.

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13 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Otherwise they would have to mark the first package correctly - AND ask me whether to split the order or hold back the other discs until everything is in stock, because I certainly would have chosen to get only one package and not pay handling fees twice just because they messed up the cover text.

Ditto! 

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1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

And whether it's correctly declared as a gift, because the original order already listed the full shipping costs and the full amount I paid for all CDs, including this one - and therefore I've already had to pay taxes for it.

 

Have you ever gotten the international store (or the US store for that matter) to declare shipments as gifts?

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3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Have you ever gotten the international store (or the US store for that matter) to declare shipments as gifts?

 

No, and I never inquired.

 

My point is that they listed the price for the disc and for its postage on the original package, which did not contain it, so according to both my bank statement and all the paperwork submitted to the tax office, and the money I actually spent, I've already paid for the album when they charged my Visa card, and I've paid the taxes for it when I paid the taxes for the package I received, which listed the CD but did not contain it. If they should now list it *again* on the new package, they would suggest that I bought it a *second* time, and I'd have to pay taxes for it a *second* time, which would obviously be wrong. The only correct way is to label the new package as a gift, so I hope they've done that - because if they haven't, I suppose my only option would be to refuse to accept the package and then ask them to send it again without charge, which sounds complicated (and would be more expensive for them).

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Looks like US orders are shipping. Got a shipping notice from Varese today.

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Yeah, which is surprising because Goldsmith clearly ripped it off for his replacement. I swear they are nearly interchangeable. 

 

Karol

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9 hours ago, crocodile said:

And, inexplicably, I received a second copy. I thought this was supposed to be inlay only? Anything wrong with the discs? 

 

No change to the discs as far as I know, but Varese from the beginning said they were going to send replacement copies to people who had already received one. They never said inlay only.

 

Yavar

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My copy arrived today, at least in theory. As I've explained above, I was already taxed for it when the rest of my order arrived a couple of weeks ago, but as I feared, "Lionheart" was declared again on its own package (i.e. declared twice, and thus taxed twice) - so I haven't accepted the package. I've emailed Awesome Distro, Varese's "international" (i.e. British) fulfilment company. I hope they can sort this out (especially with shipping apparently not being handled by Varese themselves). It's "only" €5.23, but I don't see why I should have to pay that when I've already paid my full fees and the packages were not declared correctly.

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On 7/1/2021 at 6:15 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

No change to the discs as far as I know, but Varese from the beginning said they were going to send replacement copies to people who had already received one. They never said inlay only.

 

Yavar

 

So a limited pressing of 1500 units has now become ???? units because of a mistake on the paper inserts? How did they sneak that past the rights holders?

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29 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

So a limited pressing of 1500 units has now become ???? units because of a mistake on the paper inserts? How did they sneak that past the rights holders?


I’m pretty tired of explaining this, but here goes again... it was 2000 units like the packaging states. 1500 allocated just for the U.S. store, the other 500 for the international store (which still haven’t sold out yet apparently).


The very fast international store apparently sent out a couple hundred before they were told to stop so that the back inlay could be fixed, reprinted, and replaced. So yeah I guess there are probably ~2200 copies out there, because the initial bunch that were mailed out are considered “defective” (even though to my knowledge there’s no problem with the discs themselves). The people sent that initial bunch was all sent fixed copies free of charge, so Varese is still *only selling 2000 units* — why would the rights holder have any problem with that? Why should the defective copies (which stay with the same people getting fixed copies) negatively impact the total available copies? That makes no logical sense. There was no sneaking. Varese could have communicated a bit better along the way, that’s all. But I assume this whole thing was a big pain in the ass for them (printing and replacing ~200 extra copies didn’t get them any more money, it obviously cost them money!)

 

Yavar

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4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

which stay with the same people getting fixed copies

 

But many of these people will sell the "defective" copies when the release is OOP.

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Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

 

But many of these people will sell the "defective" copies when the release is OOP.

 

Sure, but so what? That's nothing Varese has anything to do with, and doesn't impact the rights holders either. Varese only sells 2000 copies, which is the number they licensed. When they're already losing money replacing a tenth of those copies, you need them to ALSO reduce the number of copies they can sell to ~1800, creating an even greater loss for them (and making it so that 200 fewer people can purchase a copy from them who want one)? WHY?

 

Yavar

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On 7/1/2021 at 6:15 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Varese from the beginning said they were going to send replacement copies

 

Ok. Just wondered why they bothered to press more discs when they could have just printed a few extra inserts and shipped them off at a much lower production cost and with less of a postage expense.

 

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...Yeah? I agree it would have made more sense (and cost less) to send replacement inlay cards, but I'm sure Varese knew that too, and there was some reason they had to do it this way.

 

Yavar

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45 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

and doesn't impact the rights holders either

 

It does, because it affects the demand of future releases.

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7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It does, because it affects the demand of future releases.

 

Dude, this score's most likely never going to be released again on CD. It's been almost three decades since the last CD edition of this score came out. I'll bet you that the only future release this gets is digital only, no doubt through Varese again. Varese holds perpetuity rights on this I'm pretty sure, and I'm sure they'll be more hurt by any reduction in sales of said future hypothetical digital edition than Taliafilm or whoever will be.

 

Again, I don't understand what you think would make more sense here -- you think that Varese should reduce the number of available sale copies to ~1800, because ~200 defective copies were sent out? You think that 200 fewer people should be able to purchase this from Varese because of the duplicate/replacement copies they are sending out to people who already ordered? You think that's the fair and reasonable approach? (It's not like all 200 of those people are going to resell their original copies either; lots of people don't do that!)

 

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, but I honestly don't know why you're so invested in it, when it's not your finances involved.

 

Yavar

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13 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Dude, this score's most likely never going to be released again on CD.

 

I wasn't necessary talking about a CD release. More likely an LP, MC, or digital release.

 

13 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Varese holds perpetuity rights on this I'm pretty sure, and I'm sure they'll be more hurt by any reduction in sales of said future hypothetical digital edition than Taliafilm or whoever will be.

 

I doubt Varese is the only one that earns money for each sold copy.

 

13 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Again, I don't understand what you think would make more sense here -- you think that Varese should reduce the number of available sale copies to ~1800, because ~200 defective copies were sent out?

 

I'd send out new paperwork in a jewel case without CDs.

 

13 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, but I honestly don't know why you're so invested in it

 

You're the one writing the elaborate replies. ;)

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59 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

Ok. Just wondered why they bothered to press more discs when they could have just printed a few extra inserts and shipped them off at a much lower production cost and with less of a postage expense.

 

 

A very very excellent question. 

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49 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I doubt Varese is the only one that earns money for each sold copy.;)

 

I think they probably pay to license and sell a certain number of copies, but I don't know the details of their licensing agreement with Taliafilm. I'd be surprised if Taliafilm also got a cut of the sales on each individual unit, personally.

 

49 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'd send out new paperwork in a jewel case without CDs.

 

And so would I. Do you think that idea didn't occur to Varese? When there was an error in the tracklisting of The Haunting: The Deluxe Edition a few years ago, they didn't even do that -- they made a printable digital version of the corrected rear inlay available online. Obviously Varese knows they would have saved money simply sending out replacement rear inlays. Therefore they must have been required (for whatever reason) to do what they did!

 

So again: assuming that they were required to send out full corrected copies and not just inlays, what would you think is more reasonable for Varese to do -- what they ended up doing, or making ~200 fewer copies available at all, because they counted the flawed copies as part of the 2000 limit? Can you IMAGINE the backlash from fans who missed out on a copy, if this little packaging mistake is the reason 200 of them weren't able to order a copy from Varese? This way, 200 more copies are out there in the world, some of which may trickle to people who missed out on ordering from Varese (who should have made more copies in the first place, in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there). Why should that bother you, exactly? Varese lost some money replacing them but they *only sold 2000 copies* which is what they licensed from Taliafilm. They are not making any additional profit on those 200 extra copies -- in fact they obviously lost money on them. You need 200 more fans to miss out on being able to order the Deluxe Edition, and you need Varese to lose even more money by not selling 200 copies? (That's $5,000 by the way.) That makes no sense.

 

49 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You're the one writing the elaborate replies. ;)

 

Because sometimes correcting a (frankly uninformed and irresponsible) comment like "How did they sneak that past the rights holders?" requires more words than the initial offhand comment did. You insinuated that Varese did something sneaky or unfair towards the rights holders when you don't know anything about it. You don't know whether they discussed the situation with Taliafilm, or whether they would even need to, since -- as I pointed out -- they aren't selling any extra copies. They are replacing defective ones.) That's not fair or reasonable, hence my elaborate reply, with thorough explanation apparently required to make things clear.

 

27 minutes ago, Jay said:

A very very excellent question. 

 

Sure it's a question I'm curious about too... but why exactly is it any of our business? Are fans entitled to know the internal workings and drama of every film music label? If you were running Varese, would you think film music fans the world over had a right to interrogate you about this matter?

 

Yavar

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Its just a film score folks, that all.

 

Which by the way, finally arrived last Thursday.

 

It does sound better than the previous releases. Better flow as well.

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1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

How did they sneak that past the rights holders?

 

You must have me confused with someone else.

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2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

Ok. Just wondered why they bothered to press more discs when they could have just printed a few extra inserts and shipped them off at a much lower production cost and with less of a postage expense.

 

Does this affect the US store as well (which as far as I can tell might not even have sent out any copies until the error was discovered), or only the "international" one? Perhaps the international store, or at least its fulfilment company (which is apparently external), is a logistically quite complex affair for Varese - with little control over shipping (hence my double tax problem), and perhaps with no mechanism in place to easily send out replacements of *parts* of already shipped orders without lots of extra overhead and paperwork. Maybe it's easier to just send out a replacement for the full thing than to provide a contingent of replacement parts for specific customers. Pure conjecture on my part of course, but altogether I get the impression that "international" store isn't really a big help or success for them.

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It's possible; apart from the very end that's some decent speculation. I've actually heard a ton of praise for the international store, in terms of their professionalism and prompt shipping...which in this case is why they managed to send out ~200 copies so quickly before the shipments were stopped.

 

Yavar

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If everything works well, they've probably been useful, but post-Brexit, they're really not very "international" anymore. I'm sure they're a huge advantage for UK customers (which probably are a significant share of their customers). But yes, it's obviously all just speculation on my part.

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My copy arrived in the mail yesterday!

 

Strangely, it was in its own tiny envelope in my mailbox, not packaged in the same package as Paycheck and The Matrix which arrived at the same time.  Varese wasted their own money by not combining!  Oh well, being in the mailbox saved it from getting drenched in rain at least...

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DId anyone order via Intrada? Still waiting for my copy to ship! 

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