Popular Post Romão 2,268 Posted May 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 7, 2021 The merits and flaws of the prequels have been debated endlessly, but if there's one thing they had going for them was opportunities for musical expression. The Phantom Menace is particularly noteworthy in that sense, with its great variety of locales and set pieces, regardless of how well they actually work dramatically. Those aspects, combined with a plethora of vast establishing shots, dramatic scene transitions and numerous shots of ships taking off and landing, gave John Williams the chance to write what I think is his greatest collection of fanfares in any single score. I would even go as far as to say The Phantom Menace has the greatest collection of fanfares of any score that I know of, period. Listening to a mostly complete assembly of the score, I was awestruck at the sheer quantity of absolutely terrific and unique fanfares JW wrote for it: This score is an absolute treasure chest crumbs, Madmartigan JC, WampaRat and 14 others 7 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PokeDocMatt 57 Posted May 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 7, 2021 The trumpets sure got quite the work out. It’s interesting, I would not have identified 9 or 10 unique “fanfares” off the top of my head. Even listening to them, many of them feel organically related (the droid battle march being the significant exception) and not just in the John Williams “sound” kind of way. I wonder if it’s his consistent orchestration and use of the trumpets that start unison and then spread out, the fast staccato repetitions, and the soaring above the rest of the orchestra, or what other features he uses, but all of these are instantly recognizable to me as Episode One, and it does feel like a unique soundscape he created. crumbs, Chewy, Romão and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,888 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 One of the issues though is a signature feature of Star Wars music is that the music of TPM had to adhere to were the fanfares. That's in the DNA. Star Wars score without fanfares doesn't feel Star Wars. Like this is in the DNA of Star Wars: Romão 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,268 Posted May 8, 2021 Author Share Posted May 8, 2021 12 minutes ago, karelm said: One of the issues though is a signature feature of Star Wars music is that the music of TPM had to adhere to were the fanfares. That's in the DNA. Star Wars score without fanfares doesn't feel Star Wars. Like this is in the DNA of Star Wars: Very good point, though I don't think the fanfares and ever sounded so heraldic or majestic as in TPM. The canvas was much larger this time 1 hour ago, PokeDocMatt said: The trumpets sure got quite the work out. It’s interesting, I would not have identified 9 or 10 unique “fanfares” off the top of my head. Even listening to them, many of them feel organically related (the droid battle march being the significant exception) and not just in the John Williams “sound” kind of way. I wonder if it’s his consistent orchestration and use of the trumpets that start unison and then spread out, the fast staccato repetitions, and the soaring above the rest of the orchestra, or what other features he uses, but all of these are instantly recognizable to me as Episode One, and it does feel like a unique soundscape he created. Indeed. TPM is filled with unique and coherent soundscapes. And as much as I love all the subsequent Star Wars scores, I think you can kinda tell this was the one where his enthusiasm is most clearly felt. Smeltington and GerateWohl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SilverTrumpet 638 Posted May 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, Romão said: Very good point, though I don't think the fanfares and ever sounded so heraldic or majestic as in TPM. The canvas was much larger this time I always saw it as musically expressing that it's the Republic in it's glory days. Everything is shiny and neat and orderly before it crumbles apart. That was the cool thing about TPM. It gave you a peek into an entirely different world of Star Wars. Smeltington, BrotherSound and aviazn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,097 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Heh, I remember running a "poll" on my old website on exactly this topic back in 1999 -- "What's Your Favorite TPM Fanfare." Lemme see if I can retrieve it. Update: amazing what the WaybackMachine has archived -- https://web.archive.org/web/20010602022120/http://apps6.vantagenet.com/zpolls/count.asp?id=9228153216 And the ol' John Williams Score Review if you're looking for a way to stroll down memory lane (or blackmail me?) is archived too: https://web.archive.org/web/20010713112742/http://home.netcom.com:80/~dlehman/JWscore.html) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I seriously have no idea why people hate on this movie so much. I mean is Jar Jar really that off putting? Nothing will be as dumb as three movies with new characters that hardly get developed, except for one who magically got named Skywalker...who's character actually didn't get developed. And a dude who is not force gifted but yet can adequately fight a Sith. I think all of the prequel scores are great, but this one really does have a lot of special moments in it. It also amazing to me that none of the Star Wars movies sound like a continuation of the same thing, but all different but with a certain writing style. There are a lot of composers out there working on multiple films for a franchise, but they always just end up being pretty much the same score repeated. Holko and oierem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,839 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 TPM is the richest and most rewarding to listen to of all 3 prequel scores. JW was on another level and the changes in the musical language of SW reflected how different TPM was from the OT. I love the freshness of the sound, really exemplified by the awesome fanfares. Maybe it's the orchestrations or the recording, but TPM sounds very bright compared to AOTC and ROTS. WilliamsStarShip2282 and WampaRat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Listened to my “complete edit” of this on May 4th. It really is a glorious score. Encapsulates so much promise of adventure/drama/joy. It tells the story I wish the actual film had portrayed lol. Interesting how this first score in the and the Force Awakens seem to be the strongest in each of their trilogies IMO. Williams was so excited to play in this great sandbox again. And then each following film in each trilogy kinda sapped him of that enthusiasm it would seem. Yet he still managed to produce terrific scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,397 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, WampaRat said: Interesting how this first score in the and the Force Awakens seem to be the strongest in each of their trilogies IMO. Yes! Same with SW and the OT, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,888 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 10 hours ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said: I seriously have no idea why people hate on this movie so much. I mean is Jar Jar really that off putting? Nothing will be as dumb as three movies with new characters that hardly get developed, except for one who magically got named Skywalker...who's character actually didn't get developed. And a dude who is not force gifted but yet can adequately fight a Sith. Oh for the love of god, this topic again? You are literally asking why people had issues with TPM when it first came out? You want a list of why it was considered a disappointment?? WilliamsStarShip2282 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, karelm said: Oh for the love of god, this topic again? You are literally asking why people had issues with TPM when it first came out? You want a list of why it was considered a disappointment?? I like to drop thermal detonators and walk away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I never realized how much 1:58-2:28 in “Anakin Defeats Sebulba” sounds like it could be straight out of “Desert Chase” from Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofur01 245 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I don't know whether this counts as a fanfare but it's absolutely rad either way: WilliamsStarShip2282 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom Guernsey 2,220 Posted May 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2021 18 hours ago, WampaRat said: Listened to my “complete edit” of this on May 4th. It really is a glorious score. Encapsulates so much promise of adventure/drama/joy. It tells the story I wish the actual film had portrayed lol. Interesting how this first score in the and the Force Awakens seem to be the strongest in each of their trilogies IMO. Williams was so excited to play in this great sandbox again. And then each following film in each trilogy kinda sapped him of that enthusiasm it would seem. Yet he still managed to produce terrific scores. I thought I was the only person who had this opinion! Totally agree, both TPM and TFA are pretty great, but the other two don't seem to muster up quite the same level of enthusiasm, especially in the sequel trilogy. AOTC and ROTS are pretty decent, especially ROTS, but they don't match the variety and enthusiasm of TPM. Although for me, TLJ and ROS feel more like going through the motions. Professionally done of course, but it doesn't sound like a composer excited by the material (yes, I know age plays a part, but I think better material would have interested him more). I really missed the fanfares and travelling music in the sequel scores, they just aren't edited with those kinds of transitions in mind most of the time. You really miss those imperious music and images sections from the original movies and the prequels. George Lucas may have been an uneven director, but he did at least space for music, from the arrival of Vader at the start of Jedi (or the Emperor later on) to the various fanfares from the prequels detailed above, I really miss the lack of such moments in the sequels. It's all just a bit too efficiently edited. crumbs, Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Cerebral Cortex and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,268 Posted May 9, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: I really missed the fanfares and travelling music in the sequel scores, they just aren't edited with those kinds of transitions in mind most of the time. You really miss those imperious music and images sections from the original movies and the prequels. George Lucas may have been an uneven director, but he did at least space for music, from the arrival of Vader at the start of Jedi (or the Emperor later on) to the various fanfares from the prequels detailed above, I really miss the lack of such moments in the sequels. It's all just a bit too efficiently edited. That is a great point. The sequel trilogy offered much less opportunities for pure, unobstructed musical expression. This is particularly evident in the movies directed by JJ Abrams, where only the Jedi Steps sequence stands out as as scene shot and edited with the purpose of the music doing most of the heavy lifting. I would say The Last Jedi is a much more musical friendly movie than the other two, though. In particular, a scene like the Spark is obviously designed, in an almost Spielbergian way, for the music to give it the bulk of dramatic grandeur, to the point where the scene would feel half finished without it. Lesson One, The Supremacy, The Last Jedi and Holdo's Sacrifice are other examples of this. It's also curious that among the greatest strengths of the music in The Sequel Trilogy are the character themes , and not so much the set pieces, whereas in the Prequel trilogy you have the exact opposite. crumbs, mxsch, oierem and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,272 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Romão said: It's also curious that among the greatest strengths of the music in The Sequel Trilogy are the character themes , and not so much the set pieces, whereas in the Prequel trilogy you have the exact opposite. Very illuminating, and accurate, observation. It actually reflects the difference between the Lucas films vs the Disney films. The former was heavily focused on setpieces and VFX spectacle, while the latter pulled back on the spectacle and refocused heavily on the characterization. Falstaft and Romão 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,505 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2:22 onwards Best string of fanfares ever. Edit @Romão: Romão 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,268 Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 I can't watch the video, sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,268 Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Fabulin said: 2:22 onwards Best string of fanfares ever. Edit @Romão: That track is a prime example of how some of the combined tracks work really, really well as a listening experience (as does The Sith Spacecraft and The Droid Battle), I would still like to have them included in a future definitive release of this score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post igger6 889 Posted May 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2021 Major demerits for not titling this thread “The Phanfare Menace.” tmarps, Falstaft, Raiders of the SoundtrArk and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Yea @Romão the fanfares in TPM are great indeed! Also, this: On 5/7/2021 at 9:28 PM, SilverTrumpet said: I always saw it as musically expressing that it's the Republic in it's glory days. Everything is shiny and neat and orderly before it crumbles apart. That was the cool thing about TPM. It gave you a peek into an entirely different world of Star Wars. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 TPM never fails to amaze me with these moments. He never got quite so fanfare-y with the subsequent Star Wars scores, which is fine, but it sure is great to hear the brass get such an energetic and interesting workout. On 5/8/2021 at 9:23 AM, WampaRat said: I never realized how much 1:58-2:28 in “Anakin Defeats Sebulba” sounds like it could be straight out of “Desert Chase” from Raiders. Ooh, good catch. I never noticed that but you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Hmm, doesn't sound too Desert Chase-y to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: Hmm, doesn't sound too Desert Chase-y to me I mean. It’s not exact. Just something about those racing strings made me think of this track (3:37-4:00) It’s a pretty common technique Williams uses. So admittedly there’s a dozen other cues it could remind a person of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Lest we forget.😝 ( from Pitch Meeting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ricard 2,235 Posted May 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2021 Bruce, You don't realize how annoying many of your posts are. People come to a thread expecting a continuation of the discussion and find an unrelated, non-funny "joke" in the form of one of those stupid memes that you seem to find so hilarious. Because you were bored and thought it was a good idea. Well, most of the times, it isn't. So please, try to make sure that a post is an actual contribution to the thread and is not out of place, unfunny or inappropriate (as is the case here) before hitting "submit reply". You've been banned quite a few times already. Please, learn from it! Jay, Jurassic Shark, Tiburon and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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