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The Search For Robin from The Fury: Williams most ‘Morriconean’-theme?


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The theme starts around 00:40.

 

I always felt this hardly ever mentioned and somewhat forgotten theme is Williams channeling the broad, ‘European’ melodies Ennio Morricone is well known for.

 

 

What pieces do you consider Williams most ‘Morriconean’ moments?

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This one comes to mind as well:    

This: John Williams - Where Dreams Are Born - YouTube  

Temped, I think it's fair to assume, with this from Once Upon A Time in the West --        There's also "Susan Speaks" from The Patriot, which seems to me to highly deriv

3 hours ago, May the Force be with You said:

 

I think it's the more Morriconean theme from John Williams. It really has the spaghetti western style that made me love Morricone.

 

Temped, I think it's fair to assume, with this from Once Upon A Time in the West -- 

 

 

 

There's also "Susan Speaks" from The Patriot, which seems to me to highly derivative (yet somehow also superior to) Deborah's Theme from Once Upon A Time in America. At the end of the day, it's all drawing from Mahler 5/IV!

 

 

 

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I must admit I don't hear any Morricone in the clips mentioned above, nor have I ever heard anything in Williams' resume that even remotely resembles Morricone in style or tone. But that's just me.

 

If THE FURY has any template, it's Herrmann.

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4 hours ago, Thor said:

I must admit I don't hear any Morricone in the clips mentioned above, nor have I ever heard anything in Williams' resume that even remotely resembles Morricone in style or tone. But that's just me.

 

If THE FURY has any template, it's Herrmann.


The Fury as a whole: yes (nothing new there), but the specific melody in The Search For Robin is much more Morricone than Herrmann to me....

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It's played on an oboe so it has to be Morriconean, right?

 

I agree with Thor here except for The Pheasant Hunt, which, side by side like this, is pretty blatant, but neither a theme nor really a key signature Morricone style cue, just some cool soundscape scribbles.

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25 minutes ago, Holko said:

It's played on an oboe so it has to be Morriconean, right?


Hold on there. No need to accuse me of such simplistic reasoning. The way the actual melody unfolds is much more a reason for me to share it than the instrumentation. 

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16 minutes ago, Thor said:

I must admit I don't hear any Morricone in the clips mentioned above, nor have I ever heard anything in Williams' resume that even remotely resembles Morricone in style or tone (except The Pheasant Hunt). But that's just me.

 

If THE FURY has any template, it's Herrmann.

corrected

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7 hours ago, Sandor said:

The theme starts at 00:40.

 

I always felt this hardly ever mentioned and somewhat forgotten theme is Williams channeling the broad, ‘European’ melodies Ennio Morricone is well known for.

 

 

What pieces do you consider Williams most ‘Morriconean’ moments?

I can maybe hear an echo or two of Morricone in the early contours of the main melody there, but the structure and treatment and orchestration is full-bodied JW.

5 hours ago, Sandor said:

This one comes to mind as well:

 

 


The main theme here feels a great deal like Morricone, with a JW twist in the direction the piece takes.

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I kinda asked for ‘the most’ Morriconean theme, not a 100% carbon copy thing. 
 

Like if someone would ask me what is the most Zimmerish thing Williams has done, I would probably answer No Man’s Land from War Horse.

 

It is not 100% Zimmer -seriously; how COULD it be?- but the closest Williams got to his sound.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

I must admit I don't hear any Morricone in the clips mentioned above, nor have I ever heard anything in Williams' resume that even remotely resembles Morricone in style or tone. But that's just me.

 

If THE FURY has any template, it's Herrmann.

I always thought, that the way of single female melody voice without lyrics, that Morricone used in Once Upon a Time in the West and Williams uses in Where Dreams are Born, was more or less invented by Morricone. Therefore I consider this a clear Morricone reference.

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2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I always thought, that the way of single female melody voice without lyrics, that Morricone used in Once Upon a Time in the West and Williams uses in Where Dreams are Born, was more or less invented by Morricone. Therefore I consider this a clear Morricone reference.

Goes way back before Morricone in the classical form of vocalise.  IIRC, "Where Dreams Are Born" had a working title of just "Vocalise."

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2 minutes ago, SteveMc said:

Goes way back before Morricone in the classical form of vocalise.  IIRC, "Where Dreams Are Born" had a working title of just "Vocalise."

Of course the music form existed before. But using it this way in film music was Morricone's invention. At least I read it once somewhere. 

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5 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I always thought, that the way of single female melody voice without lyrics, that Morricone used in Once Upon a Time in the West and Williams uses in Where Dreams are Born, was more or less invented by Morricone. Therefore I consider this a clear Morricone reference.


I think Spielberg and Williams wanted to create something Morricone-like for A.I. when it comes to the vocalise-passages (Where Dreams Are Born in particular, but also What Is Your Wish, The Search For The Blue Fairy, etc.), although melodically speaking -with the exceptation of one or two moments in the piece- Where Dreams Are Born doesn’t remind me of Morricone’s style.

 

I think ever since Spielberg heard Morricone’s The Mission -a score he reportedly asked Williams to lean on when writing Empire Of The Sun*- the two have looked occasionally at Morricone for inspiration/ideas/whatever.

 

Exsultate Justi is very different from anything in The Mission, but it can be argued that without Morricone’s work, we would have a different score for Empire Of The Sun, possibly with less or no choral elements.

 

Sometimes it’s less obvious, but the orchestrations supporting the final statement of the theme in Hymn To The Fallen remind me much of the way Morricone can 'decorate' his compositions, like The Silver Of The Mine from Nostromo. 

 

I can hear similar inspiration -without ever directly copying Morricone in any way- in scores like A.I., Munich, Amistad, The Terminal and Schindler's List.

 

* Gramophone Film Music CD Guide (1997)

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Ok. I don't want to be guilty for spreading false rumours. So, I looked it up. It was a quote in the Liner notes my The Essential Ennio Morricone CD: "Unlike many of his Hollywood colleagues, he doesn't confine himself to traditional orchestral forces, but makes effective use of more unconventional instrumentation, including whips, bells and harmonica. He also deploys human utterances such as wordless vocals and whistling."

So no word about invention. But still the piece reminds me in style and emotionality to Morricone. 

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10 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Ok. I don't want to be guilty for spreading false rumours. So, I looked it up. It was a quote in the Liner notes my The Essential Ennio Morricone CD: "Unlike many of his Hollywood colleagues, he doesn't confine himself to traditional orchestral forces, but makes effective use of more unconventional instrumentation, including whips, bells and harmonica. He also deploys human utterances such as wordless vocals and whistling."

So no word about invention. But still the piece reminds me in style and emotionality to Morricone. 

 

Well, let's be honest: Morricone was a genuine innovator. Film scores for 'western films' were turned upside down by Ennio and he was way ahead of his time, including his haunting themes with wordless voices. I don't think anyone did that before him for this particular genre, so I totally understand your point.

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